Jan 8, 2022, 9:16 pm
Last edit by: SPN Lifer
Older (archived) threads:
2017- 21
2014-16
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FAQ
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
2017- 21
2014-16
- - - - - -
FAQ
- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of near-field communication (NFC)/contactless that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature. (EMV stands for Europay, MasterCard & Visa, the 1994 founders of the EMV chip or smart chip technology.)
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules. - What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless payment cards (2022 - 2023)
May 9, 2022, 7:55 am
#136
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTPP, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,079
A local grocer uses Lane 8000s and they're wayyyy slower than Verifone units that they use across the street at their liquor store. It is a different PoS on each (Toshiba Self checkout vs. ???? manned checkout at the liquor store), but the Ingenicos are slow. Maybe 3-4 seconds after the light is green for the NFC area on the 8000 until it actually reads and all four lights go green.
May 9, 2022, 9:48 am
#137
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
A local grocer uses Lane 8000s and they're wayyyy slower than Verifone units that they use across the street at their liquor store. It is a different PoS on each (Toshiba Self checkout vs. ???? manned checkout at the liquor store), but the Ingenicos are slow. Maybe 3-4 seconds after the light is green for the NFC area on the 8000 until it actually reads and all four lights go green.
May 10, 2022, 10:58 am
#138
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Looks like EMVco is finally consolidating the various EMV contactless kernels into one single one "to make it easier for merchants to accept contactless". Considering that a) most merchants in the US already do and b) much of the remaining opposition isn't based on technical issues (to my knowledge anyway), I'm not sure how much this will help.
Speaking of acceptance, there's still no contactless at Wendy's locations here. Or at least the "no Apple Pay" sign is still up outside at one of them; I didn't bother going through the drive thru this morning to confirm either way.
Speaking of acceptance, there's still no contactless at Wendy's locations here. Or at least the "no Apple Pay" sign is still up outside at one of them; I didn't bother going through the drive thru this morning to confirm either way.
May 11, 2022, 4:23 pm
#139
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I got a funny one for you guys. Went into a Shell station to grab a water bottle and there is a sticker over the MX915 (SWIPE NOT ALLOWED, Please Insert Chip or Tap phone or card with WI-FI)
The fact they’re not allowing swipe at all has to be breaking some rule, but calling NFC, Wi-Fi, that’s a new one for me!
The fact they’re not allowing swipe at all has to be breaking some rule, but calling NFC, Wi-Fi, that’s a new one for me!
May 11, 2022, 4:40 pm
#140
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
I got a funny one for you guys. Went into a Shell station to grab a water bottle and there is a sticker over the MX915 (SWIPE NOT ALLOWED, Please Insert Chip or Tap phone or card with WI-FI)
The fact they’re not allowing swipe at all has to be breaking some rule, but calling NFC, Wi-Fi, that’s a new one for me!
The fact they’re not allowing swipe at all has to be breaking some rule, but calling NFC, Wi-Fi, that’s a new one for me!
Everyone's effectively going to be this way starting in 2028 since banks are going to get rid of the magstripe pretty quickly after that.
May 12, 2022, 5:15 am
#141
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 197
Let's hope so. Today with hardware capable of both chip read and contactless being readily available, it needs to disappear ASAP. There is no longer any good reason to support this insecure, legacy system.
May 12, 2022, 8:59 am
#142
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTPP, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,079
I got a funny one for you guys. Went into a Shell station to grab a water bottle and there is a sticker over the MX915 (SWIPE NOT ALLOWED, Please Insert Chip or Tap phone or card with WI-FI)
The fact they’re not allowing swipe at all has to be breaking some rule, but calling NFC, Wi-Fi, that’s a new one for me!
The fact they’re not allowing swipe at all has to be breaking some rule, but calling NFC, Wi-Fi, that’s a new one for me!
May 12, 2022, 9:52 pm
#143
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 137
A second Wendy's I went to refused to allow Contactless. I had my phone out and ready. The employee goes "we do not accept Apple Pay here." I said yes you do, I used it a couple days ago. He said no we do not, and the manager came out and said the same. Both of them refused to activate the pinpad until I'd put my phone away. I said okay fine and I took out my card. They said "insert your card when the screen changes." Screen said insert/tap/swipe so I tapped my card and it went through. I said to the cashier- that is the same as Apple Pay. He said no it is not the same we do not accept Apple Pay.
May 15, 2022, 12:10 am
#144
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Report them to Wendy's corporate or Visa (even if you didn't use a Visa card) https://usa.visa.com/Forms/visa-rules.html
The NO APPLE PAY sign they love so much is still posted at a location I went to today (was drive through only at 2 PM so I don't know if the system had the tap option or not). Already reported that one to Visa last month.
Nobody cares.
In other news Popeyes drive through has a sign saying they accept Apple Pay and Google Pay and when I showed my phone they stuck the pinpad out the window.
May 15, 2022, 12:24 am
#145
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Posts: 15,508
The Pilot here finally enabled contactless at the pumps. There's no indication on the main display, just the light on the Verifone reader. Unfortunately, it's one of those locations that has a ZIP code prompt for it despite actually running it in EMV mode. (No online PIN support on credit for contactless, either.)
May 15, 2022, 11:54 am
#146
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
The Pilot here finally enabled contactless at the pumps. There's no indication on the main display, just the light on the Verifone reader. Unfortunately, it's one of those locations that has a ZIP code prompt for it despite actually running it in EMV mode. (No online PIN support on credit for contactless, either.)
May 15, 2022, 8:24 pm
#147
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
We were at Red Lobster today and the Presto device didn't have contactless enabled. I remember it working last time we were there, albeit quite a while ago. Temporary issue or did Red Lobster fully disable it for some reason? They even had EMV contactless before so if they did purposely disable it, it wouldn't have been due to that.
I've always thought that the ZIP code prompts continuing to exist on pumps is a combination of not trusting chip and signature and wanting to keep the user experience as close to the same as possible. That does slowly seem to be changing, though.
Casey's is the same way with the same POS system. I wonder if Pilot ever enabled pin bypass for ctls debit inside? I doubt it though. Casey's never did but they fixed the debit part so that it doesn't decline. Hopefully they will remove the zip code prompt like everyone else does.
May 16, 2022, 6:27 am
#148
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 137
We were at Red Lobster today and the Presto device didn't have contactless enabled. I remember it working last time we were there, albeit quite a while ago. Temporary issue or did Red Lobster fully disable it for some reason? They even had EMV contactless before so if they did purposely disable it, it wouldn't have been due to that.
May 16, 2022, 4:17 pm
#149
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 197
It's been disabled for a while. I was there today and it still didn't work. I thought I had read that contactless is disabled if the battery gets removed. Maybe they got tired of reenabling it whenever they needed to change the battery.
May 16, 2022, 4:27 pm
#150
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Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
IMO, this is pretty poor UX on Presto's part if true. Considering that the US doesn't use PIN, they don't even have that as an excuse; at least Clover simply disables PIN support whenever something goes wrong (becoming a chip/tap and signature only device) instead of disabling entire interfaces. Then again, contactless on Presto isn't great for regular customers, either (e.g. having to push a button on the screen to enable it vs. being allowed to insert immediately).