Jan 8, 2022, 9:16 pm
Last edit by: SPN Lifer
Older (archived) threads:
2017- 21
2014-16
- - - - - -
FAQ
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
2017- 21
2014-16
- - - - - -
FAQ
- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of near-field communication (NFC)/contactless that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature. (EMV stands for Europay, MasterCard & Visa, the 1994 founders of the EMV chip or smart chip technology.)
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules. - What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless payment cards (2022 - 2023)
Dec 18, 2023, 6:34 pm
#991
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As you pointed out, the fees are lower than the 3-4% we've been seeing in the US, so there's a lot more acceptance. If I remember, it was only about 9 or 10 years ago when merchants could start surcharging there. 10-15 years ago I don't remember seeing surcharges.
Australia also switched from magstripe, swipe-and-sign transactions to EMV chip-and-PIN and subsequently contactless (or PayPass as they universally say) within 5 years, so perhaps surcharges just went along with the convenience of contactless transactions. It's also a lot more difficult to use cash there now. Outside of housekeeping tips and one local bakery in Sydney with ridiculous surcharges, Mrs. Majuki and I used cards exclusively for our 5-week visit in 2022, but I suspect we'd have been using cash more had surcharges been more ubiquitous and at higher percentages.
Australia also switched from magstripe, swipe-and-sign transactions to EMV chip-and-PIN and subsequently contactless (or PayPass as they universally say) within 5 years, so perhaps surcharges just went along with the convenience of contactless transactions. It's also a lot more difficult to use cash there now. Outside of housekeeping tips and one local bakery in Sydney with ridiculous surcharges, Mrs. Majuki and I used cards exclusively for our 5-week visit in 2022, but I suspect we'd have been using cash more had surcharges been more ubiquitous and at higher percentages.
Meanwhile, Visa and MC are effectively the debit networks in the US since the others don't have anywhere near universal acceptance. This causes some merchants to pay way more than they would have had to and makes it harder to recoup the costs (well, unless they violate the rules and surcharge everything, of course).
Dec 18, 2023, 6:57 pm
#992
Join Date: Sep 2022
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Oh Visa and MC prohibit surcharges in the US?
Dec 18, 2023, 7:05 pm
#993
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Only for debit cards. But that doesn't stop a lot of the merchants that do surcharge, though, since from their perspective every card is a credit card anyway (since they pay their merchant processor the same 2.5-3% regardless).
Anyway, my guess is that we'd have a lot more following of the surcharging rules if debit card use was more obvious (i.e. mandatory PIN when using one) and/or possibly if debit routing was way more common and smaller merchants actually saw cost savings from it.
(Bringing it back to contactless, though, I'm not sure mandatory PIN for debit cards would go over so well. Maybe if CDCVM could be used instead when using a mobile device?)
Anyway, my guess is that we'd have a lot more following of the surcharging rules if debit card use was more obvious (i.e. mandatory PIN when using one) and/or possibly if debit routing was way more common and smaller merchants actually saw cost savings from it.
(Bringing it back to contactless, though, I'm not sure mandatory PIN for debit cards would go over so well. Maybe if CDCVM could be used instead when using a mobile device?)
Dec 20, 2023, 9:56 am
#994
Join Date: Sep 2023
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Lowes
It looks like contactless is live at Lowe’s today from multiple reports at Reddit.
Dec 20, 2023, 11:06 pm
#995
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Here's hoping this gets Home Depot to finally bother turning it on in the US. I'm not even sure why they have it disabled (other than the speculation that it's due to longstanding complaints about interchange and other issues).
Dec 21, 2023, 8:16 pm
#996
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I paid with a debit card at In-N-Out and it apparently still ran using the global AID. Granted, the drive thru cashier tapped my card for me so it's very possible the behavior will still be different when inserted. /shrug
Dec 28, 2023, 4:29 am
#997
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Could be merchants are eating some portion of the fees.
I know that you can walk into any of the retail chains and charge say just 1 AUD and there are no surcharges, so for instance a bottle of water.
That's because they probably get a big break on fees from the banks and also, they don't want to handle cash. All the self-checkouts at Woolworth's and Coles are credit-card only.
I know that you can walk into any of the retail chains and charge say just 1 AUD and there are no surcharges, so for instance a bottle of water.
That's because they probably get a big break on fees from the banks and also, they don't want to handle cash. All the self-checkouts at Woolworth's and Coles are credit-card only.
Surcharges are essentially false advertising because (in Australia) you can have two restaurants/food stalls next to each other that have the same prices but one surcharges 1.5% and the other doesn't. You can read the menu from far away but you can't see the surcharge unless you go right up to the counter or look for the card machine. More and more places don't even tell you the amount in advance, which I think is illegal.
Accepting cash probably costs more than 1.5% when you take into account the time spent on counting/banking/getting change, even if banks didn't charge for that.
Dec 29, 2023, 3:42 pm
#998
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Looks like Lowe's asks for PIN when tapping a PIN-preferring credit card regardless of the purchase amount. They don't even turn the terminals on (well, the self-checkout ones anyway) before everything's scanned, so they don't really have Quick Chip to blame.
On the other hand, this probably impacts very few people anyway, so there may not be much of a need to "fix" that behavior (which would likely be via disabling PIN altogether except for debit cards).
On the other hand, this probably impacts very few people anyway, so there may not be much of a need to "fix" that behavior (which would likely be via disabling PIN altogether except for debit cards).
Dec 29, 2023, 6:01 pm
#999
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Looks like Lowe's asks for PIN when tapping a PIN-preferring credit card regardless of the purchase amount. They don't even turn the terminals on (well, the self-checkout ones anyway) before everything's scanned, so they don't really have Quick Chip to blame.
On the other hand, this probably impacts very few people anyway, so there may not be much of a need to "fix" that behavior (which would likely be via disabling PIN altogether except for debit cards).
On the other hand, this probably impacts very few people anyway, so there may not be much of a need to "fix" that behavior (which would likely be via disabling PIN altogether except for debit cards).
Last edited by scibot; Dec 30, 2023 at 3:01 am
Dec 30, 2023, 10:31 am
#1000
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 103
Looks like Lowe's asks for PIN when tapping a PIN-preferring credit card regardless of the purchase amount. They don't even turn the terminals on (well, the self-checkout ones anyway) before everything's scanned, so they don't really have Quick Chip to blame.
On the other hand, this probably impacts very few people anyway, so there may not be much of a need to "fix" that behavior (which would likely be via disabling PIN altogether except for debit cards).
On the other hand, this probably impacts very few people anyway, so there may not be much of a need to "fix" that behavior (which would likely be via disabling PIN altogether except for debit cards).
Dec 30, 2023, 12:00 pm
#1001
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