percysmith

It could be possible the terminal has PIN bypass for both chip-and-PIN and chip-and-singature cards (merchants bears fraud loss).

Whatver they lose in fraud they more than recoup than DCCing every non-Euro card.

tmiw

That's not really bypass though but more configuring the terminal so that it doesn't support PIN. Bypass occurs when the terminal asks for one but you push Enter without entering it.

der_saeufer

I had no trouble refusing DCC this weekend in Barcelona, but I did pick up a couple amusing data points:

Paid at a bar with an American Visa via Google Pay, was offered DCC with a stated 2% markup that looked a little off. I did the math and the markup was 8%.

TMB (the main transit provider) fare vending machines worked fine with my CSR. Despite having a PIN pad with a display like most transit vending machines in Europe, the machine's main display offered to DCC me. At least the stated markup was accurate.

Question for people that spend more time in Spain than I do: are that many visitors really that naïve, or are there that many British visitors with 3-5% FTF for whom a 2% markup would be a good deal assuming it's accurate? (I leave Americans out since many American issuers would charge the FTF on any Spanish transaction, even in USD)

percysmith

Majuki

I agree with this assessment. Most people aren't even aware they are being DCCed. Even if they know to ask for local currency, there are so many caveats, and DCC choices aren't always respected. Far fewer will make a fuss when hit with DCC and begin the chargeback process with their issuer.

The same can be true of merchants as well. While a restaurant on Las Ramblas is likely in on the con if forcing DCC on its customers, I would give a waitress at the Red Robin in Evansville, IN the benefit of the doubt.

dmapr

Buying SIM cards at the Auckland airport in New Zealand was offered DCC without any stated mark-up. A choice between $50NZ and $36+USD (don't remember the exact cent amount, I want to say 36.87 but not sure). The card transaction is listed as pending $34.53 right now, so mark-up must be anywhere between 4.25% and 6.75%. Buying a few items at a supermarket in Auckland paid with Google Pay, charged in NZ$, DCC not offered.

tmiw

On one hand, DCC isn't all that common in the US and where it does occur, it's generally easy for the customer opt out. On the other hand, I can see a few less scrupulous merchants that already don't bother with anything customer facing (and hate having to accept cards in the first place) forcing DCC if they knew it was an option. I'm not sure I'd give those any benefit of the doubt.

Hopefully, though, Visa/MC being US based makes such abuse easier to stop.

Majuki

I would say that DCC in the US is more common than we think. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Far more likely is that there is a critical mass of USD cards, so DCC rarely comes up.

I've asked those with non-USD cards about DCC in the US, and many have said certain chain restaurants have DCC with various levels of hassle to disable. (Oftentimes the waitstaff doesn't know what's happening.) I've witnessed it firsthand with my sister-in-law's AUD card at a number of big box retailers. Not too long ago, someone with a Turkish Lira denominated card encountered DCC at Best Buy, which I would guess is standardized across every US location.

percysmith

https://www.ausbt.com.au/why-you-sho...llars-overseas

Majuki

December 2018 update on this property... The rate is still listed as being at 4.36% over Visa's. I was offered a charge of $336.23 via DCC on a bill of NT$9900. The posted transaction was $321.41, saving $14.82, effectively a 4.61% surcharge. I don't know where they get their percentage markups because they've never been accurate even when taking into account exchange rate fluctuations. I ticked the NTD box and signed the slip with the DCC verbiage - and was sure to take a photo before the lady took it away - and presented with a final DCC free credit card charge slip in NTD.

I'm in Singapore now and have been able to avoid seeing DCC via Google Pay use (plus taking advantage of the promo with Chase).

mdbe

Actually, it is not even standardized across a specific chain. I reside in the US but have used my foreign billed CC's for the last couple of years, and it is rare to encounter DCC. Not even all Best Buys will do it, that is why I had posted that picture, as I was surprised to find it in a non-touristy place. (So far encountered at 2 best buys, Tri Cities, WA and Akron, OH). I've probably encountered DCC about once a week over the last couple of years and in extremely weird places. Especially in rural parts, the shopkeep's typically do not have any idea what it is or why it's doing that and I've had my more than fair share amount of people that are surprised that there's an international credit card and that the rest of the world is in the same banking system 😂 Last encounter was in rural Alabama last week, in a small Asian dry cleaner.

Majuki

Interesting on the lack of standardization across a chain. My point was exactly as you have described. We have few data points on non-USD cards on this thread, so the only information I typically get is from visitors. I did expect this from smaller merchants who probably have it enabled via their acquirer without their knowledge of what's happening. Furthermore, it's a problem when the terminals are not customer accessible and they 1) present DCC and/or ask for a PIN. At least at most major big box retailers the PIN pads with the DCC prompts are customer accessible. Have you always been able to opt out?

mdbe

Yes I have been able to instruct them on what to do every time. Also of particular note is that normally outside of the US, if I bypass the pin more than 3 times, the card gets blocked. Here in the US it doesn't matter how many times they bypass it, which happens a lot especially with tip adjust establishments like restaurants or spas. What is also peculiar is that if pin is entered on a tip adjust, it still prints a receipt with a tip box but no signature. I wonder how they'd prove that it was the cardholder that entered the tip in cases of chargeback with no signature.

tmiw

They probably realize that it's unrealistic to have the same block policy for the US considering that there's nothing mandating that PIN should or shouldn't be supported. (Though if we're going to stick with the taking cards away thing, maybe PIN support at restaurants should be prohibited.)

Speaking of that, though, it might be worth another visit in the card network rule documents to see exactly what chargeback would be filed in the tip adjust with PIN scenario.

Kremmen

Why do you do that? Most non-US cards that I'm aware of charge foreign exchange fees and non-US credit cards generally have vastly worse value rewards schemes than US ones. I'm curious as to what non-US cards exist that would ever be worth using in the USA.