Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Mar 12, 2018, 8:07 pm
#3631
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Vending machines here in Canada are very frustrating. Pretty much the only type of card that works reliably on them is Interac. With my other cards I can't even insert them if the contactless fails as it reads the contactless even when the card is dipped.
Mar 12, 2018, 9:16 pm
#3632
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
https://imgur.com/hVBZSZZ What hold up its working fine at my local Harbor Freight! The nfc dots to take a few seconds to appear though. But Kum & Go no longer works what in the heck and I even went the same location that work doesn't either now, makes NO sense. Kum & Go seems to be as bad as CVS' IT lmfao! The nfc dots are completely missing now so its disabled. https://imgur.com/oiUTiJh
Another c-store/gas station called Pump And Pantry now has contactless too and they owned by a company in my state and they use a similar software to Casey's but it actually reads my phone unlike Casey's.
Another c-store/gas station called Pump And Pantry now has contactless too and they owned by a company in my state and they use a similar software to Casey's but it actually reads my phone unlike Casey's.
Mar 12, 2018, 9:50 pm
#3633
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
Mar 13, 2018, 7:30 am
#3634
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 557
Just to clarify, I tried it at 3 separate NJT machines, not the same one 3 times (I had time for my train).
The touch pad looks like this:
http://blog.tstc.org/wp-content/uplo...es-777x437.jpg
https://heretohomeandbeyond.files.wo...07/etc-003.jpg
This article indicated the readers were installed in 2011
NJ Transit Commuters Use Smartphones to Make Purchases
Is this kind of fail rate common?
I only asked for the contactless card because I am going to Paris soon, and I read I might have luck using it at machines if my chip card without pin is rejected (ie, Metro, Velib).
The touch pad looks like this:
http://blog.tstc.org/wp-content/uplo...es-777x437.jpg
https://heretohomeandbeyond.files.wo...07/etc-003.jpg
This article indicated the readers were installed in 2011
NJ Transit Commuters Use Smartphones to Make Purchases
Is this kind of fail rate common?
I only asked for the contactless card because I am going to Paris soon, and I read I might have luck using it at machines if my chip card without pin is rejected (ie, Metro, Velib).
I was seeing the same behavior where the card would 'decline' but the issuer wouldn't see a transaction.
Mar 13, 2018, 8:21 am
#3635
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 674
Huh, I might send them an email if their entire system doesnt work.
Mar 15, 2018, 8:29 pm
#3636
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVPG 75K, BA Silver, AC, AF/KL, AV, VS | Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 459
I had a comical experience yesterday using Chase Pay for the first time. It was at a Starbucks (taking advantage of that 300 stars promo) and the person at the register kept telling me to tap my phone even though I told her it was Chase Pay. I guess she didn't get the memo because she just looked at me confused and asked "Is that like Apple Pay"? I showed her the QR code and said that it needed to be scanned, which I did before she started telling me to tap the module. I guess the system was slow to process because the moment she said "I don't think it works" the receipt printed. Is Chase Pay really as slow as (slower than?) a chip transaction or was this an anomaly?
Mar 16, 2018, 11:48 am
#3637
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
I had a comical experience yesterday using Chase Pay for the first time. It was at a Starbucks (taking advantage of that 300 stars promo) and the person at the register kept telling me to tap my phone even though I told her it was Chase Pay. I guess she didn't get the memo because she just looked at me confused and asked "Is that like Apple Pay"? I showed her the QR code and said that it needed to be scanned, which I did before she started telling me to tap the module. I guess the system was slow to process because the moment she said "I don't think it works" the receipt printed. Is Chase Pay really as slow as (slower than?) a chip transaction or was this an anomaly?
Mar 17, 2018, 9:33 am
#3638
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
I had a comical experience yesterday using Chase Pay for the first time. It was at a Starbucks (taking advantage of that 300 stars promo) and the person at the register kept telling me to tap my phone even though I told her it was Chase Pay. I guess she didn't get the memo because she just looked at me confused and asked "Is that like Apple Pay"? I showed her the QR code and said that it needed to be scanned, which I did before she started telling me to tap the module. I guess the system was slow to process because the moment she said "I don't think it works" the receipt printed. Is Chase Pay really as slow as (slower than?) a chip transaction or was this an anomaly?
I wonder if the delay has to do with parsing the QR code. After scanning the barcode, it says "please wait" for a few seconds, followed by "processing" for less than one second, and then back to "Welcome". The actual authorisation doesn't seem to take that long.
Mar 17, 2018, 11:28 am
#3639
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Weirdly the MC map still hasn't updated from what I can tell. I expected it to update earlier this week. Maybe there's supposedly enough merchant support now that they're going to transition away from it soon?
Mar 17, 2018, 2:14 pm
#3640
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,067
I only used it for the promo yesterday, but I didn't notice any difference in transaction speed. You do have to tell the barista that you're paying with Chase pay, or else they'll assume you're trying to pull the balance from your Starbucks card. I had asked about scanning for the rewards but paying via a different method, but the barista was saying that if you scan your Starbucks card first, it will deduct from the balance there. The only way to do it I believe would be to load your Starbucks card using Chase Pay then doing a separate transaction for that amount, assuming you still had a balance greater than the transaction amount left on your Starbucks card.
Mar 17, 2018, 4:47 pm
#3641
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Aldi's UI changed from the last time I was there (which admittedly was a while ago) but still no EMV. Same with the Dunkin' Donuts here except for the UI.
Also, I saw PIN pads at the Charley's in Garden State Plaza but have yet to see any at the locations here. No idea whether contactless or EMV is enabled though.
Also, I saw PIN pads at the Charley's in Garden State Plaza but have yet to see any at the locations here. No idea whether contactless or EMV is enabled though.
Mar 18, 2018, 3:03 am
#3642
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,067
Mrs. Majuki and I ate at Tender Greens in San Francisco on Friday. Like the Stanford Shopping Center location, they had the Vivopay contactless readers. The cashier seemed a bit surprised because he said, "It doesn't always work."
Also, I was at Meet Fresh today in Cupertino, and they have a new self service ordering station. Unfortunately their credit card terminal at the station is swipe only, and mobile payments don't work even though the terminal says, "Tap or swipe card". The main registers accept mobile payments, however.
Also, I was at Meet Fresh today in Cupertino, and they have a new self service ordering station. Unfortunately their credit card terminal at the station is swipe only, and mobile payments don't work even though the terminal says, "Tap or swipe card". The main registers accept mobile payments, however.
Mar 18, 2018, 11:02 am
#3643
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Are certain cards failing there or is it more random? I can see AmEx having issues and all other cards working okay based on prior experience in this thread.
Mar 18, 2018, 1:08 pm
#3644
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Just got back from Sunnyvale Costco.
the contactless symbol appears on screen but no dice with Apple Pay.
A month ago, the same thing at Mountain View Costco, though the cashier said it has worked but maybe not at that particular terminal.
What kind of dumb POS displays the contactless symbol when the goes into prompting for the credit card if contactless is disabled?
the contactless symbol appears on screen but no dice with Apple Pay.
A month ago, the same thing at Mountain View Costco, though the cashier said it has worked but maybe not at that particular terminal.
What kind of dumb POS displays the contactless symbol when the goes into prompting for the credit card if contactless is disabled?
Mar 18, 2018, 1:23 pm
#3645
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Sadly, this is not uncommon. I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of people have already given up on contactless and won't even think of bothering to try again when it gets everywhere and works reliably. How are issuers going to deal with that?