Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Mar 18, 2018, 1:48 pm
#3646
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
This was identical to the behavior at the Meet Fresh in Cupertino yesterday. The contactless symbol with the text "tap or swipe card" was there, but the reader didn't work and there was a post-it note sign saying "no mobile payments".
Mar 18, 2018, 2:15 pm
#3647
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
I didn't inquire as to which cards were failing. It's possible Tender Greens sees a higher incidence of contactless transactions due to being cashless plus this location was next to the Caltrain station. You might see a higher incidence of tech types more likely to try out things like contactless payments. The gentleman after me paid with a metal AmEx Platinum, but that's a single data point.
This was identical to the behavior at the Meet Fresh in Cupertino yesterday. The contactless symbol with the text "tap or swipe card" was there, but the reader didn't work and there was a post-it note sign saying "no mobile payments".
This was identical to the behavior at the Meet Fresh in Cupertino yesterday. The contactless symbol with the text "tap or swipe card" was there, but the reader didn't work and there was a post-it note sign saying "no mobile payments".
Mar 18, 2018, 8:10 pm
#3648
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
The kind that gets UI updates pushed to it before functional updates. At least the contactless hardware is in the terminal somewhere, unlike when one of my local Vons stores had swipe/insert prompts on their old MX800-series terminals that didn’t have EMV slots.
Mar 19, 2018, 4:19 am
#3649
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Just got back from Sunnyvale Costco.
the contactless symbol appears on screen but no dice with Apple Pay.
A month ago, the same thing at Mountain View Costco, though the cashier said it has worked but maybe not at that particular terminal.
What kind of dumb POS displays the contactless symbol when the goes into prompting for the credit card if contactless is disabled?
the contactless symbol appears on screen but no dice with Apple Pay.
A month ago, the same thing at Mountain View Costco, though the cashier said it has worked but maybe not at that particular terminal.
What kind of dumb POS displays the contactless symbol when the goes into prompting for the credit card if contactless is disabled?
Also, I’ve seen high rates of failures on the NFC readers on those Verifone MX900 terminals in the US where it should be enabled, but had simply stopped working. I would have asked the purchase to be moved to a different till to pay.
Mar 19, 2018, 7:15 am
#3650
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 53
I had a comical experience yesterday using Chase Pay for the first time. It was at a Starbucks (taking advantage of that 300 stars promo) and the person at the register kept telling me to tap my phone even though I told her it was Chase Pay. I guess she didn't get the memo because she just looked at me confused and asked "Is that like Apple Pay"? I showed her the QR code and said that it needed to be scanned, which I did before she started telling me to tap the module. I guess the system was slow to process because the moment she said "I don't think it works" the receipt printed. Is Chase Pay really as slow as (slower than?) a chip transaction or was this an anomaly?
Last edited by PhX1Guy; Mar 19, 2018 at 7:18 am Reason: spelling
Mar 19, 2018, 10:31 am
#3651
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
Did you indicate you were using Chase Pay from the onset? The problem is that it is the same system that scans your Starbucks card, so if one of two things happens, there are problems: 1) You don't announce you're using Chase Pay, and the barista assumes you're paying with your Starbucks card or 2) the barista doesn't know about Chase Pay and assumes you're paying with your Starbucks card. My guess is practically nobody has used Chase Pay outside of this promo.
Mar 19, 2018, 11:10 am
#3652
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
No I believe the contactless symbol appears on the display when the terminal is ready to take the credit card.
Mar 19, 2018, 7:22 pm
#3653
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Did you indicate you were using Chase Pay from the onset? The problem is that it is the same system that scans your Starbucks card, so if one of two things happens, there are problems: 1) You don't announce you're using Chase Pay, and the barista assumes you're paying with your Starbucks card or 2) the barista doesn't know about Chase Pay and assumes you're paying with your Starbucks card. My guess is practically nobody has used Chase Pay outside of this promo.
Mar 20, 2018, 5:27 am
#3654
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
So I visited Staples recently and Visa Debit did not work it said an alternate form of payment is required so I used MC contactless and it worked as EMV contactless and CDCVM was used as it said verified by pin on the receipt. But its odd that Visa failed to work. I also noticed it said "Please Keep Card inserted" while it was processing, lol. It is also a lot slower than Walgreens is.
Mar 20, 2018, 10:01 am
#3655
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
I was talking to my parents last night. They just upgraded to the iPhone X from the 5, so this is their first Apple Pay capable phone and they've been playing with it. At Safeway when they tried to use it the cashier had them move the transaction to the customer service counter to pay. From what I gathered, and this is third-hand so something might have been misunderstood, it sounds like the store has to enable NFC on each checkout each night and if they forget, it doesn't work at that checkout the next day. Not sure if that's really the case or not, as it sounds bizarre, but it would explain the sporadic success we've seen at Safeway/Vons stores and goes along with how people here describe Safeway having terrible IT.
Mar 20, 2018, 10:20 am
#3656
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I was talking to my parents last night. They just upgraded to the iPhone X from the 5, so this is their first Apple Pay capable phone and they've been playing with it. At Safeway when they tried to use it the cashier had them move the transaction to the customer service counter to pay. From what I gathered, and this is third-hand so something might have been misunderstood, it sounds like the store has to enable NFC on each checkout each night and if they forget, it doesn't work at that checkout the next day. Not sure if that's really the case or not, as it sounds bizarre, but it would explain the sporadic success we've seen at Safeway/Vons stores and goes along with how people here describe Safeway having terrible IT.
Mar 20, 2018, 12:07 pm
#3657
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
I was talking to my parents last night. They just upgraded to the iPhone X from the 5, so this is their first Apple Pay capable phone and they've been playing with it. At Safeway when they tried to use it the cashier had them move the transaction to the customer service counter to pay. From what I gathered, and this is third-hand so something might have been misunderstood, it sounds like the store has to enable NFC on each checkout each night and if they forget, it doesn't work at that checkout the next day. Not sure if that's really the case or not, as it sounds bizarre, but it would explain the sporadic success we've seen at Safeway/Vons stores and goes along with how people here describe Safeway having terrible IT.
Mar 21, 2018, 4:31 am
#3658
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,644
I don't think they need to turn on NFC every night. I will ask around and see if I can find out what's going on here.
What I can tell you is that the IT help desk is outsourced, but the IT technicians (presumably hardware support) is all in-house and local. I'm not sure who handles the software side of things, especially the pin pads.
Unfortunately, I haven't actually met anyone from Safeway IT (All of the people I'm working with are from the Albertsons side)
Disclosure: I am a temporary IT technician for Albertsons-Safeway.
Additional Disclosure: IT is on vacation next week, so it may be a couple weeks before I can get an answer. Also, my job as a technician ends shortly after that, so if I don't get an answer by then, I'll have to figure out who to ask later.
What I can tell you is that the IT help desk is outsourced, but the IT technicians (presumably hardware support) is all in-house and local. I'm not sure who handles the software side of things, especially the pin pads.
Unfortunately, I haven't actually met anyone from Safeway IT (All of the people I'm working with are from the Albertsons side)
Disclosure: I am a temporary IT technician for Albertsons-Safeway.
Additional Disclosure: IT is on vacation next week, so it may be a couple weeks before I can get an answer. Also, my job as a technician ends shortly after that, so if I don't get an answer by then, I'll have to figure out who to ask later.
Mar 21, 2018, 8:48 am
#3659
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
I don't think they need to turn on NFC every night. I will ask around and see if I can find out what's going on here.
What I can tell you is that the IT help desk is outsourced, but the IT technicians (presumably hardware support) is all in-house and local. I'm not sure who handles the software side of things, especially the pin pads.
Unfortunately, I haven't actually met anyone from Safeway IT (All of the people I'm working with are from the Albertsons side)
Disclosure: I am a temporary IT technician for Albertsons-Safeway.
Additional Disclosure: IT is on vacation next week, so it may be a couple weeks before I can get an answer. Also, my job as a technician ends shortly after that, so if I don't get an answer by then, I'll have to figure out who to ask later.
What I can tell you is that the IT help desk is outsourced, but the IT technicians (presumably hardware support) is all in-house and local. I'm not sure who handles the software side of things, especially the pin pads.
Unfortunately, I haven't actually met anyone from Safeway IT (All of the people I'm working with are from the Albertsons side)
Disclosure: I am a temporary IT technician for Albertsons-Safeway.
Additional Disclosure: IT is on vacation next week, so it may be a couple weeks before I can get an answer. Also, my job as a technician ends shortly after that, so if I don't get an answer by then, I'll have to figure out who to ask later.
Mar 21, 2018, 11:17 am
#3660
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 53
Did you indicate you were using Chase Pay from the onset? The problem is that it is the same system that scans your Starbucks card, so if one of two things happens, there are problems: 1) You don't announce you're using Chase Pay, and the barista assumes you're paying with your Starbucks card or 2) the barista doesn't know about Chase Pay and assumes you're paying with your Starbucks card. My guess is practically nobody has used Chase Pay outside of this promo.