Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Mar 8, 2018, 10:44 am
#3586
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I really don't think most folks would see it as a benefit if the credit card companies go through with a (limitless) signature waiver on North American contact transactions; if that proves the case, then foreign terminals where contactless waives signature, while insertion continues to demand one in all cases, would be a negative loophole.
Mar 8, 2018, 12:55 pm
#3587
Moderator
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HSBC (USA) MasterCards are still contactless.
HSBC (UK) recently added contactless to MasterCard credit cards. Previously only offered on VISA debit cards.
HSBC (UK) recently added contactless to MasterCard credit cards. Previously only offered on VISA debit cards.
Mar 8, 2018, 3:47 pm
#3588
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
Visited Family Dollar. Tried to tap with my watch. It failed. 3 times. The cashier said that contactless hasn't worked in ages so you have to use your card. At least, I know, it wasn't my cell phone when I had the issue beforehand.
Mar 8, 2018, 5:54 pm
#3589
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Their own press releases make it sound like they're just going to have the software support for the merchants that want it, which is weird because I'm pretty sure I've seen EMV contactless at US merchants using Verifone hardware before.
Mar 8, 2018, 6:35 pm
#3590
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
I just want to let everyone know that Safeway is not the only grocery store that uses Toshiba software and has issues with contactless. Family Fare is another, I saw a few registers with the dots but the rest do not seem to support it including manned registers. Toshiba really is a piece of crap so time time to upgrade to NCR, haha Safeway is doing the opposite.. It was working fine the time before this time so I wonder what happened, hm.
Olive Garden does indeed support contactless at the Ziosk tablets but the ones I went to did not have iPP320's on the server stations which use NCR.
Olive Garden does indeed support contactless at the Ziosk tablets but the ones I went to did not have iPP320's on the server stations which use NCR.
Mar 8, 2018, 6:38 pm
#3591
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I just want to let everyone know that Safeway is not the only grocery store that uses Toshiba software and has issues with contactless. Family Fare is another, I saw a few registers with the dots but the rest do not seem to support it including manned registers. Toshiba really is a piece of crap so time time to upgrade to NCR, haha Safeway is doing the opposite.. It was working fine the time before this time so I wonder what happened, hm.
Olive Garden does indeed support contactless at the Ziosk tablets but the ones I went to did not have iPP320's on the server stations which use NCR.
Olive Garden does indeed support contactless at the Ziosk tablets but the ones I went to did not have iPP320's on the server stations which use NCR.
Now remember the Ziosk still runs through the Aloha EDC, it shows up as another terminal on the Aloha system on the back end. I don’t think it’s possible to have EMV on one and not the other.
Mar 8, 2018, 8:44 pm
#3592
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Darden seems to be going to the iPP320s as a fallback if the Ziosk fails at reading a card. They may have contactless without emv enabled?? Or they may only use the Ziosk and not bother with the server stations at all.
Now remember the Ziosk still runs through the Aloha EDC, it shows up as another terminal on the Aloha system on the back end. I don’t think it’s possible to have EMV on one and not the other.
Now remember the Ziosk still runs through the Aloha EDC, it shows up as another terminal on the Aloha system on the back end. I don’t think it’s possible to have EMV on one and not the other.
Mar 9, 2018, 11:52 am
#3593
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
Here is something interesting, someone from Hawthorne, CA said that Costco Gasoline accepts contactless now.
Mar 9, 2018, 2:20 pm
#3594
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
Here is something interesting, someone from Hawthorne, CA said that Costco Gasoline accepts contactless now. https://twitter.com/iH4ck5/status/970425979784097792
I wonder if it's really enabled or if they just saw the readers on new pumps?
Mar 9, 2018, 4:30 pm
#3595
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
Fye supports contactless as the UI reminds me of Penn Station East Coast Subs and they use Merchant Link for their provider. Receipt shows RFID and seems to be MSD. The screen shows Visa Paywave and the contactless logo and insert or swipe card.
Mar 9, 2018, 5:41 pm
#3596
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Did the four dots show up immediately? I remember trying and it was so lagged that I just assumed that they didn't support it.
Mar 9, 2018, 6:08 pm
#3597
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Certain NCR implementations are so terrible it took a whole 20s before the dots showed up. American NFC is really bad due to these fully integrated systems!
Mar 9, 2018, 6:34 pm
#3598
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
EDIT: Kum & Go now supports EMV contactless after disabling it on October 31st 2014 so right after Apple Pay was introduced. The UI looks just like Circle K with slight differences to the theme: https://imgur.com/NZ28z6o (Circle K screen) but EMV contactless info is printed on the receipt. https://imgur.com/m9HjVmU (Kum & Go receipt) They use an NCR Radiant system just like Circle K so I'm not surprised that they have it working now. They had a block on the contactless because they needed to get certified for EMV contactless first it seems. I tested both my Visa debit card and my Amex physical card and both worked well when tapped. I still need to check more locations to make sure I have not run into a test location or something.
Last edited by scibot; Mar 9, 2018 at 7:56 pm
Mar 9, 2018, 11:45 pm
#3599
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
I also hear that Chase is restricting the bonus to Chase Pay for next quarter, which is kind of a bummer.
Mar 10, 2018, 12:29 am
#3600
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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For me it is either using the phone to pay or tapping the physical cards I have that will tap to pay... makes no difference to me. I have sure enjoyed the 5% this quarter though. Kroger has lost 75% of my grocery business thanks to their refusal to accept Contactless but on the bright side I have found everything I needed and more at every other grocery store (all of which accept Contactless albeit a little flaky at Safeway).