Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Dec 5, 2014 | 10:37 pm
#1426
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 81
Greyhound Cafe DCC dispute reason 76
I wanted to give an update to this case. I received a letter from Chase saying that my case has been resolved and closed, all credits Chase issued will remain permanently on the account. They did not give a reason as to what Grayhound did or did not do.
So essentially my fight with DCC was successful. However of course I wasn't doing it to get a free meal, but rather to stop this forced DCC behavior from merchants. I have eaten at the same restaurant 3 times since I lodged the complaint, but paid with a local HKD card.
I will say that going through this process was not a cake walk, as Chase doesn't really want to deal with a charge back, and the reps do not really understand the principle behind it. I was lucky to have one that completely sided with the average customer.
So essentially my fight with DCC was successful. However of course I wasn't doing it to get a free meal, but rather to stop this forced DCC behavior from merchants. I have eaten at the same restaurant 3 times since I lodged the complaint, but paid with a local HKD card.
I will say that going through this process was not a cake walk, as Chase doesn't really want to deal with a charge back, and the reps do not really understand the principle behind it. I was lucky to have one that completely sided with the average customer.
Wow. I received a call from Chase dispute department just 5 minutes ago. Long story short:
The customer rep who just called me was the original person who had received my dispute document via fax. She entered the information into the dispute system and called me, but missed her call. Her colleague followed up with what transpired last night.
The original rep made a reminder for herself to try me again and saw the notes on my account as what had happened. She called me just now and said, are you satisfied with the resolution of your dispute?
I said, well no. And she said, Yes I agree. She understands what DCC is and the impact, and said the paperwork I have provided is black and white. She initiated the charge back and put a temp credit of $83.76 USD on my account and asked me to wait 45 days for the merchant to respond. If not, it becomes permanent.
I told her she had restored my faith in people knowing to do the right thing. She replied, that its not ethical what the merchant did, and thanked me for being so patient.
^
The customer rep who just called me was the original person who had received my dispute document via fax. She entered the information into the dispute system and called me, but missed her call. Her colleague followed up with what transpired last night.
The original rep made a reminder for herself to try me again and saw the notes on my account as what had happened. She called me just now and said, are you satisfied with the resolution of your dispute?
I said, well no. And she said, Yes I agree. She understands what DCC is and the impact, and said the paperwork I have provided is black and white. She initiated the charge back and put a temp credit of $83.76 USD on my account and asked me to wait 45 days for the merchant to respond. If not, it becomes permanent.
I told her she had restored my faith in people knowing to do the right thing. She replied, that its not ethical what the merchant did, and thanked me for being so patient.
^
Dec 6, 2014 | 12:24 am
#1427
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 210
And the rates I ended up getting from Discover/JCB are way better than what I got from Visa for the same days.
Dec 6, 2014 | 9:12 am
#1428
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I wanted to give an update to this case. I received a letter from Chase saying that my case has been resolved and closed, all credits Chase issued will remain permanently on the account. They did not give a reason as to what Grayhound did or did not do.
So essentially my fight with DCC was successful. However of course I wasn't doing it to get a free meal, but rather to stop this forced DCC behavior from merchants. I have eaten at the same restaurant 3 times since I lodged the complaint, but paid with a local HKD card.
I will say that going through this process was not a cake walk, as Chase doesn't really want to deal with a charge back, and the reps do not really understand the principle behind it. I was lucky to have one that completely sided with the average customer.
So essentially my fight with DCC was successful. However of course I wasn't doing it to get a free meal, but rather to stop this forced DCC behavior from merchants. I have eaten at the same restaurant 3 times since I lodged the complaint, but paid with a local HKD card.
I will say that going through this process was not a cake walk, as Chase doesn't really want to deal with a charge back, and the reps do not really understand the principle behind it. I was lucky to have one that completely sided with the average customer.
It is frustrating with Chase that most of the reps don't know about DCC nor do they care. Thanks again for jumping through the hoops to fight this transaction.
Dec 8, 2014 | 8:30 pm
#1429
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 81
OK, got another update. My statements online have been posted and as of now, this is what it looks like:
A charge for the HKD amount was indeed processed. However another return for the USD amount was issued. That means, I have two credits of 83.76 and and a new charge of 80.36. So it looks something like this:
DEC -83.76 - A credit after the rerun.
DEC 80.36 - rerun in merchant currency
OCT -83.76 - Upon filing of reason code 76
OCT -4.00 - rep tried to close out the dispute with the difference
SEP 83.76 - Original forced DCC charge
I'm guessing the December credit will fall off and is some weird holder of some sort.
A charge for the HKD amount was indeed processed. However another return for the USD amount was issued. That means, I have two credits of 83.76 and and a new charge of 80.36. So it looks something like this:
DEC -83.76 - A credit after the rerun.
DEC 80.36 - rerun in merchant currency
OCT -83.76 - Upon filing of reason code 76
OCT -4.00 - rep tried to close out the dispute with the difference
SEP 83.76 - Original forced DCC charge
I'm guessing the December credit will fall off and is some weird holder of some sort.
I would say that's a satisfactory resolution. I know you weren't trying to get a free meal out of the situation, and I wonder what happened on the backend. Usually with a reason code 76 chargeback it wouldn't reverse the charge completely but rather rerun the transaction in the local currency.
It is frustrating with Chase that most of the reps don't know about DCC nor do they care. Thanks again for jumping through the hoops to fight this transaction.
It is frustrating with Chase that most of the reps don't know about DCC nor do they care. Thanks again for jumping through the hoops to fight this transaction.
Dec 8, 2014 | 8:37 pm
#1430
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
OK, got another update. My statements online have been posted and as of now, this is what it looks like:
A charge for the HKD amount was indeed processed. However another return for the USD amount was issued. That means, I have two credits of 83.76 and and a new charge of 80.36.
A charge for the HKD amount was indeed processed. However another return for the USD amount was issued. That means, I have two credits of 83.76 and and a new charge of 80.36.
Dec 8, 2014 | 8:51 pm
#1431
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 81
The 80.36 was the original USD equivalent on the original transaction receipt for HKD. Did that make sense?
I imagine things will reconcile eventually, but it looks like the reason code 76 chargeback happened properly. It doesn't matter for HKG:USD, but which exchange rate does the bank use in such a case? Would they use the December exchange rate or would they use the exchange rate for the date of the original transaction?
Dec 8, 2014 | 9:21 pm
#1432
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Sure, but the USD:HKG rate is fixed. If you get unwillingly hit with DCC at let's say a merchant in Madrid and the reason code 76 chargeback gets resolved 3 months later would they use the USD:EUR exchange rate when the chargeback posts or would they use the exchange rate from the original date of the transaction?
Dec 8, 2014 | 9:31 pm
#1433
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Seat 21C on UA
Posts: 988
Sure, but the USD:HKG rate is fixed. If you get unwillingly hit with DCC at let's say a merchant in Madrid and the reason code 76 chargeback gets resolved 3 months later would they use the USD:EUR exchange rate when the chargeback posts or would they use the exchange rate from the original date of the transaction?
Dec 22, 2014 | 11:42 pm
#1434
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Two days in HK, and I think DCC is kind of omnipresent here.
However, they are all very clear and easy to opt out (the ones I've encountered). Usually, the cashiers (today at 翠华 in 铜锣湾 and yesterday at Hong Kong Station MTR) would opt out for me, and I actually receive two slips at once, with one showing confirmed HKD amount. Just now at Tom Lee Causeway Bay, they asked for my currency preference after seeing the choices on the terminal. Hitting "cancel" means HKD.
My guess would be that rogue DCC terminals are always in Bars here in HK? Regular shops and restaurants seem fine.
One negative thing is that with US cards that don't have PINs, the terminals will be in the cashiers' hands when DCC appears, so some inexperienced cashiers might bring problems.
I bet with ubiquitous signing pads like the ones in the US, or PIN pads like the ones in Europe/Australia/NZ, the choices would appear right in front of the customers, which reduces the chance of wrong input.
However, they are all very clear and easy to opt out (the ones I've encountered). Usually, the cashiers (today at 翠华 in 铜锣湾 and yesterday at Hong Kong Station MTR) would opt out for me, and I actually receive two slips at once, with one showing confirmed HKD amount. Just now at Tom Lee Causeway Bay, they asked for my currency preference after seeing the choices on the terminal. Hitting "cancel" means HKD.
My guess would be that rogue DCC terminals are always in Bars here in HK? Regular shops and restaurants seem fine.
One negative thing is that with US cards that don't have PINs, the terminals will be in the cashiers' hands when DCC appears, so some inexperienced cashiers might bring problems.
I bet with ubiquitous signing pads like the ones in the US, or PIN pads like the ones in Europe/Australia/NZ, the choices would appear right in front of the customers, which reduces the chance of wrong input.
Dec 23, 2014 | 12:27 am
#1435
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Two days in HK, and I think DCC is kind of omnipresent here.
However, they are all very clear and easy to opt out (the ones I've encountered). Usually, the cashiers (today at 翠华 in 铜锣湾 and yesterday at Hong Kong Station MTR) would opt out for me, and I actually receive two slips at once, with one showing confirmed HKD amount. Just now at Tom Lee Causeway Bay, they asked for my currency preference after seeing the choices on the terminal. Hitting "cancel" means HKD.
My guess would be that rogue DCC terminals are always in Bars here in HK? Regular shops and restaurants seem fine.
However, they are all very clear and easy to opt out (the ones I've encountered). Usually, the cashiers (today at 翠华 in 铜锣湾 and yesterday at Hong Kong Station MTR) would opt out for me, and I actually receive two slips at once, with one showing confirmed HKD amount. Just now at Tom Lee Causeway Bay, they asked for my currency preference after seeing the choices on the terminal. Hitting "cancel" means HKD.
My guess would be that rogue DCC terminals are always in Bars here in HK? Regular shops and restaurants seem fine.
For example, they certainly didn't do anything at Greyhound Cafe. You could tick the HKD box, but that request would go off into a black hole. Pressing cancel during the transaction didn't do anything. Likewise, I almost lost it at a restaurant at Disneyland when the cashier said, "Check HKD, and it's HKD."
I would say that most places in HK respect DCC choices, but you can run into problems at restaurants and bars.
Dec 23, 2014 | 8:16 am
#1436
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 415
I spend quite bit of time in Mexico City these days, and on my most recent trip I began noticing signs from Santander at different shops and restaurants that read, basically, "Now, for your convenience you can pay in your own currency!"
While I don't think I ever experienced DCC paying with my Canadian chip-&-PIN card (at least, I was never actually given a choice by the POS) it seems that DCC has come to Mexico City.
While I don't think I ever experienced DCC paying with my Canadian chip-&-PIN card (at least, I was never actually given a choice by the POS) it seems that DCC has come to Mexico City.
Dec 23, 2014 | 8:29 am
#1437
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,743
I spend quite bit of time in Mexico City these days, and on my most recent trip I began noticing signs from Santander at different shops and restaurants that read, basically, "Now, for your convenience you can pay in your own currency!"
While I don't think I ever experienced DCC paying with my Canadian chip-&-PIN card (at least, I was never actually given a choice by the POS) it seems that DCC has come to Mexico City.
While I don't think I ever experienced DCC paying with my Canadian chip-&-PIN card (at least, I was never actually given a choice by the POS) it seems that DCC has come to Mexico City.
Dec 23, 2014 | 6:19 pm
#1438
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
On a side note, looks like HK is more crowded compared with 10 years before. More people are running the red lights on to the coming cars, like Mainlanders...
Gives you the feeling that people here are madder...
Gives you the feeling that people here are madder...
Dec 24, 2014 | 8:41 am
#1439
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Had a little DCCish incident at Al Molo Italian Restaurant at Harbour City today.
Before, the DCC in HK I've met are either that you are asked for currency selection before the first slip is printed (Tom Lee), or once the first slip is printed you are asked right away automatically on the terminal (lots of places like Tsui Hwa and MTR).
At Al Molo, since it's a HK$2000 bill and it's a upscale restaurant, I paid very close attention on the terminal. After information transmission (showing TX and RX on the screen), everything ceased on the terminal, and the currency selection slip is printed.
I don't have a service that I can simply upload photos, so I'll copy the text on the slip here:
Trans: Sale
Batch No: XXXXXX Ref: XXXXXX
RRN: XXXXXXXXX
AID: XXXXXXXXX
APP Code: XXXXXXXXX
FX Rate*: USD/HKD 0.1343638
Mark[x] Transation Currency
[ ] HKD 2095.00 [ ] USD 281.49
This service is offered by merchant's service provider. I have a choice of currencies including HKD. *Incl. four pt. two percent over wholesale rate.
I protested to the staff, but the staff said once I tick the box, I'll get HKD. I didn't believe him, and another staff came and keyed the transaction info into the terminal. After some keying, the terminal printed out the currency confirmation slip, showing "HKD 2095" only, and "Trans: Offline-Opt/Out".
The pending amount is identical to the DCC amount in USD.
This incident reminds me the Greyhound Cafe thing (interestingly, there is a Greyhound, not the IFC one, Cafe right in front of the Al Molo). The matter is someone has to perform a new task on the terminal, and key in the transaction details, just to be able to get back to the transaction and select the currency. I guess if the cashier forgets to do that, or doesn't know how to perform the "opt/out", the cardholder would be in trouble.
My question is: is Greyhound Cafe's terminal like this, that a new "opt/out" task has to be performed? What I saw today really resembles what you guys have described regarding Greyhound Cafe's terminal, that after swiping, nothing about DCC happens, but DCC's already happened.
Before, the DCC in HK I've met are either that you are asked for currency selection before the first slip is printed (Tom Lee), or once the first slip is printed you are asked right away automatically on the terminal (lots of places like Tsui Hwa and MTR).
At Al Molo, since it's a HK$2000 bill and it's a upscale restaurant, I paid very close attention on the terminal. After information transmission (showing TX and RX on the screen), everything ceased on the terminal, and the currency selection slip is printed.
I don't have a service that I can simply upload photos, so I'll copy the text on the slip here:
Trans: Sale
Batch No: XXXXXX Ref: XXXXXX
RRN: XXXXXXXXX
AID: XXXXXXXXX
APP Code: XXXXXXXXX
FX Rate*: USD/HKD 0.1343638
Mark[x] Transation Currency
[ ] HKD 2095.00 [ ] USD 281.49
This service is offered by merchant's service provider. I have a choice of currencies including HKD. *Incl. four pt. two percent over wholesale rate.
I protested to the staff, but the staff said once I tick the box, I'll get HKD. I didn't believe him, and another staff came and keyed the transaction info into the terminal. After some keying, the terminal printed out the currency confirmation slip, showing "HKD 2095" only, and "Trans: Offline-Opt/Out".
The pending amount is identical to the DCC amount in USD.
This incident reminds me the Greyhound Cafe thing (interestingly, there is a Greyhound, not the IFC one, Cafe right in front of the Al Molo). The matter is someone has to perform a new task on the terminal, and key in the transaction details, just to be able to get back to the transaction and select the currency. I guess if the cashier forgets to do that, or doesn't know how to perform the "opt/out", the cardholder would be in trouble.
My question is: is Greyhound Cafe's terminal like this, that a new "opt/out" task has to be performed? What I saw today really resembles what you guys have described regarding Greyhound Cafe's terminal, that after swiping, nothing about DCC happens, but DCC's already happened.
Dec 24, 2014 | 10:28 am
#1440
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
My question is: is Greyhound Cafe's terminal like this, that a new "opt/out" task has to be performed? What I saw today really resembles what you guys have described regarding Greyhound Cafe's terminal, that after swiping, nothing about DCC happens, but DCC's already happened.
At Greyhound Cafe - we were at the Cityplaza location in Tai Koo - there was no currency input during/after the transaction. Even with direct access to the terminal, the situation was similar and DCC was unavoidable at Coyote Bar and Grill.
It has been my experience that the DCC amount gets held in the pending transaction, but once the transaction posts the non-DCC amount will show. The only way this doesn't happen is if you can preempt DCC or disable it before running the transaction. DFS at HKIA does this. Even though there's the DCC offer, if you opt out - easy to do on the screen and no pressure - then the non-DCC amount will show as pending. At the Courtyard on Hong Kong Island the carbon copy slip doesn't even show a DCC option, so they turn it off before you see anything. (They use Bank of China HK terminals.)