Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Dec 30, 2014 | 12:42 pm
#1471
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,743
Thinking about it, I expect DCC to actually become more prevalent in the US thanks to EMV. 
There's a good chance that we'll have the largest set of signature-only terminals in the world (restaurants and the like) so there's less chance to opt-out since cards will still leave the cardholder's possession. And that has to be tempting for some companies out there, especially those who do a lot of business in tourist areas.
There's a good chance that we'll have the largest set of signature-only terminals in the world (restaurants and the like) so there's less chance to opt-out since cards will still leave the cardholder's possession. And that has to be tempting for some companies out there, especially those who do a lot of business in tourist areas.
Dec 30, 2014 | 2:35 pm
#1472
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Thinking about it, I expect DCC to actually become more prevalent in the US thanks to EMV. There's a good chance that we'll have the largest set of signature-only terminals in the world (restaurants and the like) so there's less chance to opt-out since cards will still leave the cardholder's possession. And that has to be tempting for some companies out there, especially those who do a lot of business in tourist areas.
There's a good chance that we'll have the largest set of signature-only terminals in the world (restaurants and the like) so there's less chance to opt-out since cards will still leave the cardholder's possession. And that has to be tempting for some companies out there, especially those who do a lot of business in tourist areas.I maintain that DCC isn't that prevalent in the US to begin with, but my spouse isn't letting me use her Taiwan issued Visa debit card to find out. She let me try one purchase at Mitsuwa, but there was no DCC.
Dec 30, 2014 | 3:10 pm
#1473
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,743
Well, nothing prevents DCC in a swipe-and-sign environment either. Apple Pay and the like could reduce the prevalence of DCC since DCC isn't allowed for contactless payments with no cardholder verification required.
I maintain that DCC isn't that prevalent in the US to begin with, but my spouse isn't letting me use her Taiwan issued Visa debit card to find out. She let me try one purchase at Mitsuwa, but there was no DCC.
I maintain that DCC isn't that prevalent in the US to begin with, but my spouse isn't letting me use her Taiwan issued Visa debit card to find out. She let me try one purchase at Mitsuwa, but there was no DCC.
Then again, it's probably way easier to enforce proper DCC here than elsewhere so even if it does become more prevalent at least opt-out should be easy.
Dec 30, 2014 | 3:26 pm
#1474
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
It's easier in an EMV environment though because there's no need to keep a BIN->country association list constantly up to date; just check the Application Currency Code on the card. Also, it's probably not prevalent now because a lot of businesses have some really old terminals that probably can't even do it in the first place.
Then again, it's probably way easier to enforce proper DCC here than elsewhere so even if it does become more prevalent at least opt-out should be easy.
Then again, it's probably way easier to enforce proper DCC here than elsewhere so even if it does become more prevalent at least opt-out should be easy.
Dec 30, 2014 | 3:53 pm
#1475
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Well, I'm thinking about this some more and perhaps more merchants will enable DCC as they swap out for newer terminals with the EMV change. However, over on the other thread, we've postulated that merchants here will be slow to change out their terminals, especially in venues like restaurants that are considered 'low risk' for fraud.
Dec 30, 2014 | 5:30 pm
#1476
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Well, I'm thinking about this some more and perhaps more merchants will enable DCC as they swap out for newer terminals with the EMV change. However, over on the other thread, we've postulated that merchants here will be slow to change out their terminals, especially in venues like restaurants that are considered 'low risk' for fraud.
So I'm surprised it isn't more widespread.
Last edited by AllieKat; Dec 30, 2014 at 7:33 pm Reason: Darn autocorrect
Dec 30, 2014 | 7:26 pm
#1477
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I think there is a lot of cultural difference as well. In Ireland, for example, I doubt most people feel much remorse for hiring Britons and Americans with DCC. Same for outsiders in Hong Kong and China. Canada, however, or the UK I doubt would find forced DCC to be nearly to acceptable of a practice. The US, however, is one country where I'd think forcing DCC would be considered downright patriotic "this is Murica and you're gonna pay us the way we want to get ar' 'Murican dollaz"
So I'm surprised it isn't more widespread.
So I'm surprised it isn't more widespread.
Or to put it in another perspective, wait until you see the size of my tip if you don't figure out a way to void this transaction and rerun in USD.
I think the DCC scam is most likely present in areas with high tourist or foreign card traffic SE Asia, Europe, etc. I imagine outside of tourist areas in the US it is uncommon to find a non-USD denominated card in the wild. Even my international friends in college primarily used their US-issued debit cards from a local bank account (and later got credit cards as they established credit in the US). And in the kind of places I now visit, most of the foreign cards are UnionPay or JCB anyway, so I wouldn't see any opportunities for DCC.
In most cases I doubt you'd have issues because almost all major stores have digital signature pads now, and reclusive46 says that's where he has typically seen the DCC offer to appear outside of restaurants. It's just like DFS at HKIA where it was easy to decline if you knew what to expect. It's none of this charade of "check the box and hope the cashier makes some input after the fact".
Dec 31, 2014 | 3:54 am
#1478
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
There may well be cultural reasons as to whether the USA, for example, will deploy DCC on a wide basis. I don't think it started out as a scam; I think when it was introduced in Ireland in the 1990's it was looked on to a degree as a means of helping customers understand what they were paying for something. That was before ftf's so if a bank was getting 3% on the foreign currency transaction, they felt it was a way of getting in on the action, sparing the customer the 3% and providing a service. It became more of a scam when the banks in retaliation converted foeign currency fees to foreign transaction fees. Ouch. But then the processors claimed it wasn't they ripping off the customers but their banks.
But DCC didn't catch on in France because well the French sgtill had and probably retain the belief France is one of the great countries of the world; that everybody should speak French and spend French money while in France. Of course we also have this American exceptionalism here which Obama spoke about; i.e. everybody should speak English and everybody should use and accept American money (and American weights and measures and American 2nd Amendment rights yada yada yada. It is that attitude so prevalent in Murica that may account for the lack of DCC. Of course, the other attitude is capitalism reigns supreme and the idea is to make the last buck on unsuspecting tourists because the American capitalistic society best way to go (ever sit bck why the same medical proceure costs $100 throughout 99% of the workd and $5,000 here while statistics show American medical care is no better than most other places but then again that may cause me to be accused of stealing the topic and I wouldn't want to do that but this thought is there are 2 ways to do things, the rest of the world and America is something that is very prevalent in American mores.
But DCC didn't catch on in France because well the French sgtill had and probably retain the belief France is one of the great countries of the world; that everybody should speak French and spend French money while in France. Of course we also have this American exceptionalism here which Obama spoke about; i.e. everybody should speak English and everybody should use and accept American money (and American weights and measures and American 2nd Amendment rights yada yada yada. It is that attitude so prevalent in Murica that may account for the lack of DCC. Of course, the other attitude is capitalism reigns supreme and the idea is to make the last buck on unsuspecting tourists because the American capitalistic society best way to go (ever sit bck why the same medical proceure costs $100 throughout 99% of the workd and $5,000 here while statistics show American medical care is no better than most other places but then again that may cause me to be accused of stealing the topic and I wouldn't want to do that but this thought is there are 2 ways to do things, the rest of the world and America is something that is very prevalent in American mores.
Dec 31, 2014 | 9:13 am
#1479
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
There may well be cultural reasons as to whether the USA, for example, will deploy DCC on a wide basis. I don't think it started out as a scam; I think when it was introduced in Ireland in the 1990's it was looked on to a degree as a means of helping customers understand what they were paying for something. That was before ftf's so if a bank was getting 3% on the foreign currency transaction, they felt it was a way of getting in on the action, sparing the customer the 3% and providing a service. It became more of a scam when the banks in retaliation converted foeign currency fees to foreign transaction fees. Ouch. But then the processors claimed it wasn't they ripping off the customers but their banks.
If anything, I'm surprised DCC isn't more prevalent due to American culture trying to upsell at every possible opportunity. How often do you hear, "Would you like to make that a large for 49 more?" "How about adding purchase protection to this today?" "I see you've already got this, but can I interest you in this adjacent service [that's more expensive]?" It seems like every which way they're trying to get you to accept the offer, and some employees even have quotas to meet. The only reason why DCC isn't all over the place is because on average I suspect that few big box retailers see non-USD cards outside of select locations.
Dec 31, 2014 | 9:29 am
#1480
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
If anything, I'm surprised DCC isn't more prevalent due to American culture trying to upsell at every possible opportunity. How often do you hear, "Would you like to make that a large for 49 more?" "How about adding purchase protection to this today?" "I see you've already got this, but can I interest you in this adjacent service [that's more expensive]?" It seems like every which way they're trying to get you to accept the offer, and some employees even have quotas to meet. The only reason why DCC isn't all over the place is because on average I suspect that few big box retailers see non-USD cards outside of select locations.
In the UK, I think DCC is rare because 1. there's less utter hatred toward foreigners and 2. an even stronger love of the currency.
On the other hand, in Ireland there's no emotion for the Euro and a strong "let's take the British and American tourists for all they're worth" (the main people who will be DCC'd in Ireland) attitude that appears prevalent.
Dec 31, 2014 | 10:03 am
#1481
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Dec 31, 2014 | 10:48 am
#1482
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Oh come on, I've met many people who genuinely believe that outside the borders of the US everyone is either evil, impoverished, or both. There is a widespread belief that the US is some type of paradise that everyone else wishes they could be just like.
Now, being in rural Montana plays no small part in being around this, I'm sure. But seriously, hell, if there was a way to "DCC" tourists from other STATES, I'm sure they'd do it here. Especially to Californians. Add a 5% fee for using a California-issued credit card? I can name quite a few businesses I bet would sign on in a heartbeat to such a scheme.
Now, being in rural Montana plays no small part in being around this, I'm sure. But seriously, hell, if there was a way to "DCC" tourists from other STATES, I'm sure they'd do it here. Especially to Californians. Add a 5% fee for using a California-issued credit card? I can name quite a few businesses I bet would sign on in a heartbeat to such a scheme.
Dec 31, 2014 | 12:16 pm
#1483
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,743
DCC has evolved into a scam when the going rate is now between 4-5%, which is more than the standard 3% currency exchange fee that issuers charge. Since banks were losing out on this, they switched to foreign transaction fees, which we've discussed extensively already, so you're still getting with the 3% FTF even if you accept the 4-5% DCC offer, resulting in a 7-8% markup on your transaction. Back when it was one or the other (and the DCC offer was a more reasonable 3%) it really didn't matter which one you chose, and you might have even come out ahead accepting DCC since the currency exchange fee wasn't calculated as part of your rewards earnings whereas the total amount inclusive of the DCC fee would count. Again, this no longer holds true, but it did in the past.
If anything, I'm surprised DCC isn't more prevalent due to American culture trying to upsell at every possible opportunity. How often do you hear, "Would you like to make that a large for 49 more?" "How about adding purchase protection to this today?" "I see you've already got this, but can I interest you in this adjacent service [that's more expensive]?" It seems like every which way they're trying to get you to accept the offer, and some employees even have quotas to meet. The only reason why DCC isn't all over the place is because on average I suspect that few big box retailers see non-USD cards outside of select locations.
If anything, I'm surprised DCC isn't more prevalent due to American culture trying to upsell at every possible opportunity. How often do you hear, "Would you like to make that a large for 49 more?" "How about adding purchase protection to this today?" "I see you've already got this, but can I interest you in this adjacent service [that's more expensive]?" It seems like every which way they're trying to get you to accept the offer, and some employees even have quotas to meet. The only reason why DCC isn't all over the place is because on average I suspect that few big box retailers see non-USD cards outside of select locations.
Dec 31, 2014 | 12:54 pm
#1484
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
They are still common, but some banks are switching over to FTFs. The worst is that some issuers outside of the US will have rewards bonuses on foreign spend, and DCC doesn't count.
Dec 31, 2014 | 4:31 pm
#1485
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 46
Oh come on, I've met many people who genuinely believe that outside the borders of the US everyone is either evil, impoverished, or both. There is a widespread belief that the US is some type of paradise that everyone else wishes they could be just like.
Now, being in rural Montana plays no small part in being around this, I'm sure. But seriously, hell, if there was a way to "DCC" tourists from other STATES, I'm sure they'd do it here. Especially to Californians. Add a 5% fee for using a California-issued credit card? I can name quite a few businesses I bet would sign on in a heartbeat to such a scheme.
Now, being in rural Montana plays no small part in being around this, I'm sure. But seriously, hell, if there was a way to "DCC" tourists from other STATES, I'm sure they'd do it here. Especially to Californians. Add a 5% fee for using a California-issued credit card? I can name quite a few businesses I bet would sign on in a heartbeat to such a scheme.