(Domestic) Again, Elites sit in back, non-revs up front (fact)
Apr 20, 2009, 1:14 pm
#121
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Ummm no. For the average hard working airline employee in the trenches, one of the most prized portions of the benefits package is free or reduced cost travel - there is nothing in the benefits package that states F or J travel is a key benefit.
Upgrades to F or J are simply one of the available options an employee can select for their travel perk if a seat is open in that cabin. A nonrev employee on personal travel can not displace a Y customer, so why are people suggesting they should displace someone who is being put in F by virtue of their frequent flier program benefits?
Upgrades to F or J are simply one of the available options an employee can select for their travel perk if a seat is open in that cabin. A nonrev employee on personal travel can not displace a Y customer, so why are people suggesting they should displace someone who is being put in F by virtue of their frequent flier program benefits?
If you like to upgrade to FC for free, why wouldn't a non-rev? How is that any different?
Except they're working for it and you're not, and, in fact, the company is specifically withholding pay increases, dangling the "carrot" of F/J passes as one of the justifications.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:14 pm
#122
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Considering that Silvers often get upgraded on flights to leisure destinations like SJU, CUN, PVR, STT, etc... you would think that pass travel to vacation destinations would be easier to score in F than other destinations. I know I have run across non-revs in the front cabin to places like SJU, PUJ, STT, etc. Granted, non-revs may have relatives in places like ORD, LAX, NYC, etc., but they already get to fly there on a pass. No need to further restrict the EUA pool to these destinations, when the EUA standby list can consist of half the plane.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:17 pm
#123
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I'm paying for my flights, out of my own pocket. I choose to fly CO because of the EUA system, which generally works well for the routes I fly. I would choose another airline if circumstances changed to my perceived detriment. CO isn't exactly raking in cash at the moment, so I wouldn't expect them to be generously increasing salaries (overhead) in the present business environment. If I were a major shareholder, I would be seriously concerned if CO went down that path during one of the biggest economic downturns in recent history.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:19 pm
#124
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I think the additional fee for F is common at other airlines.
I recently witnessed a GA for an ATL-ORD segment (UA explus RJ with F) try to get the nonrevs to spring for F. Y was over, but F was under, so they were definitley getting on the plane, the question was where. This is one of those routes that's really not worth upgrading in the UA program (2 x 500-milers for a 606-mile flight). So Elites don't want it, and with the extra fees, non-revs don't seem to want it either.
None of the 4 non-revs was willing to take it, so she ended up op-upping some Elites (including us).
I recently witnessed a GA for an ATL-ORD segment (UA explus RJ with F) try to get the nonrevs to spring for F. Y was over, but F was under, so they were definitley getting on the plane, the question was where. This is one of those routes that's really not worth upgrading in the UA program (2 x 500-milers for a 606-mile flight). So Elites don't want it, and with the extra fees, non-revs don't seem to want it either.
None of the 4 non-revs was willing to take it, so she ended up op-upping some Elites (including us).
Apr 20, 2009, 1:21 pm
#125
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No one ever suggested scrapping EUA.
Let's not get our panties in a bunch...
We're simply discussing setting aside a limited number of seats for non-revs.
Think of it like this: EUA is a killer perk for all you elites out there, often or constantly flying FC without ever paying for it. Let's not lose track of that.
In fact, the more you EUA, the more, in essence, you're "taking" money away from the airline and, by association, its employees.
A few seats set aside every year would be but a humble gesture of gratitude to the hard-working and long-suffering employees of CAL for so much free privilege, don't you think?
Let's not get our panties in a bunch...
We're simply discussing setting aside a limited number of seats for non-revs.
Think of it like this: EUA is a killer perk for all you elites out there, often or constantly flying FC without ever paying for it. Let's not lose track of that.
In fact, the more you EUA, the more, in essence, you're "taking" money away from the airline and, by association, its employees.
A few seats set aside every year would be but a humble gesture of gratitude to the hard-working and long-suffering employees of CAL for so much free privilege, don't you think?
Apr 20, 2009, 1:21 pm
#126
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I'm perfectly serious.
Let's take a quick peek:
EWR-LAX in FC (cheapest fare available, June 17 return June 24, random dates):
Cheapest confirmed FC fare: $1,598
Cheapest economy fare: $278
If a plat flying on that cheap V fare (unlikely, I know) is able to score an upgrade, he or she just "cost" the company $1,320.
He or she will not get treated any differently once in the FC cabin than a passenger who paid $1,598.
Of course, upgrades are part of the perks CO offers its frequent fliers, and that's fair enough.
But I think frequent fliers should realize that they are getting a killer benefit here, one that is now the most generous of any U.S. carrier (with the end of NW) and perhaps a little, tiny thank you to the crews who help make the terrific CO experience happen wouldn't be so terrible after all...
Let's take a quick peek:
EWR-LAX in FC (cheapest fare available, June 17 return June 24, random dates):
Cheapest confirmed FC fare: $1,598
Cheapest economy fare: $278
If a plat flying on that cheap V fare (unlikely, I know) is able to score an upgrade, he or she just "cost" the company $1,320.
He or she will not get treated any differently once in the FC cabin than a passenger who paid $1,598.
Of course, upgrades are part of the perks CO offers its frequent fliers, and that's fair enough.
But I think frequent fliers should realize that they are getting a killer benefit here, one that is now the most generous of any U.S. carrier (with the end of NW) and perhaps a little, tiny thank you to the crews who help make the terrific CO experience happen wouldn't be so terrible after all...
Apr 20, 2009, 1:21 pm
#127
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Forget the benefits package, that's not what this is about.
If you like to upgrade to FC for free, why wouldn't a non-rev? How is that any different?
Except they're working for it and you're not, and, in fact, the company is specifically withholding pay increases, dangling the "carrot" of F/J passes as one of the justifications.
If you like to upgrade to FC for free, why wouldn't a non-rev? How is that any different?
Except they're working for it and you're not, and, in fact, the company is specifically withholding pay increases, dangling the "carrot" of F/J passes as one of the justifications.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:24 pm
#128
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The point is precisely that EUA in of itself costs the company money.
It's a very generous benefit that perhaps ought to come with a little more humility and recognition for the hard-working employees of CO who make it happen for OP elites.
The least you could do is agree to share the fun with some of them, at least occasionally.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:26 pm
#129
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Apr 20, 2009, 1:27 pm
#130
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Only if EUA prevents CO from selling seats in the front cabin. Considering that CO often does not process EUA on business-heavy routes (EWR-LAX/SFO/IAH, etc.) until a half-hour before the flight (if not later), CO doesn't risk losing the sale of even a last-minute walk-up fare. I think we can all agree that, if anything, CO's revenue management team is rather competent regarding such issues.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:29 pm
#131
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You didn't get my point. If there were no EUA (as on other airlines) then these seats would be available for revenue sale.
The point is precisely that EUA in of itself costs the company money.
It's a very generous benefit that perhaps ought to come with a little more humility and recognition for the hard-working employees of CO who make it happen for OP elites.
The least you could do is agree to share the fun with some of them, at least occasionally.
The point is precisely that EUA in of itself costs the company money.
It's a very generous benefit that perhaps ought to come with a little more humility and recognition for the hard-working employees of CO who make it happen for OP elites.
The least you could do is agree to share the fun with some of them, at least occasionally.
EUA costs very little if you trust that management has a feel for how many F seats would sell on a plane.
EUA garners loyalty which MAKES the company money.
If CO didn't do EUAs, Ross Perot's giant sucking sound would, in this case, be the number of elites leaving for other a/ls in droves.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:30 pm
#132
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Only if EUA prevents CO from selling seats in the front cabin. Considering that CO often does not process EUA on business-heavy routes (EWR-LAX/SFO/IAH, etc.) until a half-hour before the flight (if not later), CO doesn't risk losing the sale of even a last-minute walk-up fare. I think we can all agree that, if anything, CO's revenue management team is rather competent regarding such issues.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:33 pm
#133
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I, respectfully, disagree again.
EUA costs very little if you trust that management has a feel for how many F seats would sell on a plane.
EUA garners loyalty which MAKES the company money.
If CO didn't do EUAs, Ross Perot's giant sucking sound would, in this case, be the number of elites leaving for other a/ls in droves.
EUA costs very little if you trust that management has a feel for how many F seats would sell on a plane.
EUA garners loyalty which MAKES the company money.
If CO didn't do EUAs, Ross Perot's giant sucking sound would, in this case, be the number of elites leaving for other a/ls in droves.
Would you leave CO and fly UA where you have to pay for upgrades? Or AA, where most elites pay for upgrades as well?
Personally, I think EUA's are a wonderfully generous benefit, one which deserves a little gratitude to the employees of CO who make it happen.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:37 pm
#134
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Of course, but the fact remains that no other airline provides this very generous benefit (at least once DL absorbs NW) and I think a little gratitude toward the hard-working men and women who make it happen for all the OP elites would be a wonderful thing, at least now and then.
Apr 20, 2009, 1:38 pm
#135
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Of course, but the fact remains that no other airline provides this very generous benefit (at least once DL absorbs NW) and I think a little gratitude toward the hard-working men and women who make it happen for all the OP elites would be a wonderful thing, at least now and then.