TWA Fan 1

All airlines give free upgrades, even UA and AA, but the only carriers who provide "free unlimited upgrades" are currently CO and NW, soon to be only CO.

All the other carriers limit the number of free upgrades they provide.

TWA Fan 1

I understand everything you're saying, but personally I think a little gratitude would go a long way...

Sometimes you gotta give a little to get a lot...

sbm12

Make up your mind.
This is so ridiculously wrong that I do not know where to begin.

• The elite has provided long-term revenue, something that the company needs.
• The elite has provided short-term revenue in the form of that V fare.
• The only way that elite gets the upgrade is if they use miles or if they get a EUA. In either case the only way that CO revenue management releases that seat to be given to the person who didn't pay for the F seat is if they had no expectations of selling it anyways.
• And, finally, the presumption that it "costs" the airline money - the difference in the fares particularly - to provide the incremental difference in service is just outright crazy and reflects a simplistic and ignorant view of the way that airlines operate.

Actually, giving away upgrades can make the company more money. Take the example of my recent trip to HAM (great city for a day trip, btw). At two weeks out CO was selling L fares for ~$400 r/t even though the back cabin was full. Why? Because they had a bunch of unsold seats up front that they could OpUp into and solve the overbooking problem. Are you suggesting that I cost CO thousands of dollars because I got an OpUp?
Gratitude is fine. And I honestly don't care if CO decides to waive the incremental pass fee for the upgrade into F. But setting aside seats - eating into the revenue that paying customers provide - is not smart business.

ctownflyer

Wrong, DL does give "free unlimited upgrades."

sbm12

In what way does DL limit theirs? I believe that you are mistaken on this detail.
http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about_...ance/index.jsp

TWA Fan 1

Some fares on DL are not eligible for upgrades...

ADLFO

For the segment of hub captives in IAH, CLE and EWR as well as those who regularly can and do buy F fares, they probably wouldn't go anywhere. As to the rest, I'm guessing some would become free agents and fly whoever is cheapest, but I think, depending on their usual O & Ds, that most would defect to DL, and even AS to a smaller extent. If you are guaranteed no chance at flying in F, then even WN or any leagacy or LCC would enter into every travel equation.

To turn your last sentence around, don't you think COs most FFers, the ones who generate a large amount of the revenue to pay all the fine employees of CO so that they have jobs, deserve a little gratitude?

TWA Fan 1

But they wouldn't be eating into revenue-generating seats, since those (for upgraders) are back in coach...

ctownflyer

I'm not seeing any fare exclusions:
http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about_...ades/index.jsp

In addition it seems that US also gives "free unlimited upgrades" to all elites
http://www.usairways.com/awa/content.../benefits.aspx

Anglo Large Clawed Otter

I show my gratitude for CO service in the form of loyalty, by booking numerous CO tickets with my own, hard-earned cash each year. My loyalty to CO is a result of the service provided by its front-line employees, and also a result of the service provided by its management-level employees, who have crafted a loyalty product that instills just that. It's not blind loyalty, by any means. I have a choice of carriers, and presently CO wins due to a mix of solid service in the air and behind the scenes. If their formula changes, so does mine. On several occasions, I have been willing to overlook (thankfully rare) poor service in the air due to other facets of CO's system. Likewise, I have been willing to overlook failings of OnePass due to consistently good service in the air.

ADLFO

With the small exception of consolidator/priceline type fares, which I have never seen, and trips to HI, for all DL elites, all fares are eligible for u/gs for domestic travel (even including Canada, Bermuda, Central America, the Caribbean and the northern parts of S. America).

ConciergeMike

I've been reading this thread and continue to be amazed by the unwillingness of certain people to make a tactical advance to the rear and abandon their faulty argument.

TWA Fan 1

All agreed, all great, and that's what the system of free upgrades was designed to do.

But the fact is you are sitting in an FC seat without paying for it. It's a perk not an entitlement. The seat you paid for is in the back of the bus.

For a CO employee, on the other hand, it's presented as a benefit in lieu of better pay. Most of these jobs are no fun at all. Just think of those ticket agents, gate agents spending all those hours on their feet, facing hordes of anxious travelers, the baggage handlers who have to crawl into the bellies of the 737's and make sure all the bags are out in a flash, the mechanics who have to fix a faulty light on the cockpit panel in under ten minutes or risk a major delay in the take-off slot, etc.

I think CO frequent fliers ought to recognize them with a gesture of a few non-rev FC pass seats a year.

MIA-SAT

I am not sure exactly what you mean by "limit". If you mean capacity, I am not aware how AA has any more limits than CO. In fact, CO has all Y fares and all B fares as automatically upgradable, as long as the route is not a BF route. AA leaves more seats for upgrades by only automatically upgrading YUP and KUP fares and they quantity of these inventories is limited. Not all Y fares will qualify for automatic upgrade. My upgrade percentage as an EXP on AA is much higher than it is as a PLAT on CO.

OTOH, if you mean all elite levels upgrade for free, then I agree, AA only offers "free" upgrades if you are an EXP. Otherwise you earn stickers, and you will need to purchase additional stickers if you want to upgrade for all of the available opportunities.

The notion that CO has the "best" benefits, or even the "best" upgrade policy for elites is still a debatable proposition, especially at the highest level. CO has no system-wide upgrades and IME, the BUP and YUP fares (the latter of which stay on sale until the Y inventory is sold out) reduce upgrade chances for all elites.

Finally, on the issue of "employee benefits" vs. elite benefits, CO has stated its business policy. On non-BF routes, elites take the F seats over non-rev employees. If what the OP reported was as the OP believes, the GA breached company policy, period. CO frequent flyers make business decisions based on no "employee class", i.e, no employees getting favors from buddies to the detriment of elites on the waitlist. The day the policy becomes mere lip service, customers can vote with their wallets. CO like any other business can change its policy, either by public statement or by multiple reports of breaches, but the fact that CO Insider is on the case indicates that CO takes its policy on this subject seriously.

sbm12

Pray tell, which ones? Seriously. Which ones? The DL upgrade program is, in reality, identical to that of CO and NW for revenue tickets and will be morphing into that of the NW program for reward tickets (plat/gold are EUA eligible at the gate).

There are fares excluded from paid upgrade at the gate for non-elites IIRC (basically the sLUT fares) but that has nothing to do with the elite program and unlimited free upgrades.

Ahhh...you are looking at a single transaction, not an arc. If I find that I am paying for a ticket and I'm getting fewer upgrades because the F seats are going to employees traveling on passes then I'm out looking for greener pastures. I might even start flying B6 more. That is where CO loses revenue on such a policy.

Like I said, I have no problem with letting the employees pass ride in F just like they do in Y without a surcharge. I do have a problem with them having priority over a paying customer. That is why many elite customers pay to fly on CO. Otherwise it is limiting the value of the elite program and in the big picture that is bad for business.