Hmm, AFU? Any kin to NFG? ;)

But at what premium?

Of course I'll take F over C in just about every scenario, but I do not think I can justify a 50% premium (or 40%, which is what it is with BD now). I was stupid and paid CO's 280K for our RTW honeymoon tix because I wanted the non-stop from EWR-NRT instead of the DTW connection. For that 120K points we could have done a LOT and the inconvenience would have been minimal. I look at the C=>F up-charge in a similar way. At 25%, maybe. At 50%, I cannot imagine that I would.

Interesting, I did not know that the cause was likely just on the AF/KE sides. This, plus no StarNet blocking, could be a good indication that we will see F availability at a premium.

With the new lie-flat seats, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried it. :rolleyes: Hopefully the other Star carriers with a true F product would set them straight pretty quickly.

I agree.

I guess that depends UA no, SQ yes

UA wasn't an option either way, though I haven't tried the new C seats they have. I think I got ripped off on the NZ $1500 deal based on the seat and service. Similarly I think I got ripped off on the AZ $220 LCA deal for the seat and service.

Not to divert us back to AM, but what's the secret sauce behind values of routes?

I guess it doesn't take into account real world competition that already exists. And/or real market value of routes. I guess it's overly simplified in terms of population density and maybe some sort of variable of GDP or something.

How :rolleyes:

If it's a very long flight (TPAC, TATL from W. Coast, etc.), I'll gladly pay a 50% premium over J. I wouldn't redeem F except for special occasions (Anniversaries, probably), so it wouldn't be a huge lost opportunity cost. Sure, over time, I might miss out on some opportunities to redeem a J flight somewhere, but some F cabins (New LX, TK 77W, NH, New OZ) are worth it.

It does not take into account previous airlines that exist outside of the AM world, only the airlines that do exist.

There are potential customers (you can see this when setting up a route) and depending on the plane, the amount of customers, and the price, you get the route value. The bigger cities have more customers and you can charge a higher price for the tickets.

I didn't view either as a rip-off. Both were destinations I really wanted to visit, and considering that for NZ I paid what a coach ticket generally runs, and for Cyprus substantially less than what a Y ticket runs, I was pleased with the value for $$$, in comparison with alternatives. I wasn't impressed with either UA F or C, but I was pleased with the price. Getting to New Zealand simply isn't cheap. I was happy to have a significant improvement over a Y seat for the 15 hour flights to/from SYD.

I believe carriers in *A that do not have F still allow members to redeem F on partners.

your competition is AM only, not compared to real world. But it uses real world like figures to get your started. Just think if it didn't you'd never be out of the red :) (which hey may be more realistic!)

I just dropped two "real" routes (PVG-MNL/SEL) in favor of five shorter hops. Some are legit (FUK, CJU) but a few are 90-200 mile flights that would never be profitable in the real world. But I'm getting >60K each on them.

There is a significant absence of reality in a few factors of the game.

Fair point. Ripped off is an exaggeration. I would have definitely felt ripped off if I paid retail - cash or miles - for either of those experiences.

yep I had 1 hour left on a plane and bought a gate at ACY from PHL making 45k for spare time :D

AM never heard of NJ Transit, or taxi...or anything.