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sbm12 Aug 1, 2007 9:05 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 8155269)
As an informal poll, I was wondering which FF programs other CO Forum regulars would choose if they weren't locked into CO (for whatever reason, be it hub convenience, corporate contracts, route map, etc.). If you could (theoretically) fly from any airport at the same yearly mileage-earning rate as you do now, booking the same classes of service, which program would you choose?

Probably AA. I can fly from another airport (any of the 3 in NYC) and am considering going that route for the lifetime status. Based on their "by any means necessary" plan, I'd be a 1MM already and I'm lamenting my decision not to go that route a little bit. I think that overall the CO service is better, and I make platinum at 75K instead of 100K (and I'm barely a 75K/year guy, so that is a big difference). But the lifetime has some appeal to it. I know that there is no way I'll continue this travel pattern forever, even though I enjoy it. And it would be nice to continue to receive the benefits (really just shorter lines and early boarding) into the sunset.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Aug 1, 2007 9:05 am


Originally Posted by Hartmann (Post 8155576)
I do fly AA along with CO on a pretty regular basis. I like them but they have their faults.

I cannot see myself going to DL ever. My past experiences with them have been extremely poor and I don't see them digging themselves out of that hole.

Having never flown UA, I'd be willing to give them a shot. I will definitely be flying VX at some point in the near future.

SQ's new Biz class looks pretty interesting (the 777 seats) and I want to try it out.

Granted, my last DL experience was in F...on a 727, but I'm hoping my upcoming trips with them in BizE and F in September and October will live up to expectations.

VX would be quite interesting, depending on how the FFP shakes out, and once they cobble together a decent route network. I don't think I could go with SQ, given my present booking patterns, as I don't generally pay for front cabins on long-haul flights (except if there's an $1100 R fare EWR-LGW, or a $500 mistake fare on DL EZE-ATL-JFK, etc). Accordingly, I don't think SQ would be a good fit for me. From the looks of their FFP, it would appear that they regard Y pax as little better than baggage. Though the onboard service is reported to be excellent, it wouldn't make up (IMO) for the lousy mileage earning and lousy redemption thresholds.

HedgeFundFlyer Aug 1, 2007 9:34 am

AA or BA. I was fairly happy with oneworld when I lived in NYC, but can't justify connecting through DFW on domestic flights now that I'm in Houston. If AA still had the nonstop HOU-LGA I probably would not have switched to CO at all. Similarly, since I do a fair amount of international travel I've long contemplated going with BAEC (BA Gold is appealing), but again the DFW connection on AA is a killer.

If EK had a real U.S. partner I'd probably go with them since most of my international travel is to the Mideast and EK has a pretty good international product.

So, here I am with CO.

monitor Aug 1, 2007 10:31 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 8155269)
...I think I would aim for DL, as the service levels appear to be consistently improving, the route map expanding (though perhaps not in the most rational manner), EUA system for domestic flying, PMUs on higher-fare tickets for international travel into a BizE cabin that's slated for big improvements in the near future, slightly better mileage redemption ability than CO, and staff that's as friendly as CO's....

Point by point from a former CO Platinum. We would still be with CO except for having closed our office in NJ and much prefer the short ride over to LGA (or even out to JFK). I do agree with ALCO's choice of DL, but must provide a bit more light on some of his premises.

1 - Agreed that the service levels on DL are improving, altho the DL service has always been warmer and more friendly than CO's. There is absolutely no comparison between the DL international crews and any you will find on CO. The DL oldsters (there is one on almost every flight) came to them from PanAm and they make each flyer feel as if he has a caring mother to watch over him for the flight and have passed this culture of service on to the next generation of DL FAs. The planes are clean (we also fly US, but more about that later), the CRCs are well-kept and the gateside screens provide a level of priority transparency that is missing everywhere else.

2 - Agreed that the EUA system for domestic travel at DL is better than all others. In addition to the above-mentioned transparency, the upgrade success ratio is much higher, especially on medium-haul leisure routes, such as NY-Florida where a Gold Medallion runs about 95%. It appears that CO sells a lot of those upfront seats, even in markets like that, and I understand that a Plat is touch and go for those upgrades. Six or eight years ago, a CO Plat would run 90+% on Fla upgrades in season (many of them on the battlefield) and 100% the rest of the year.

3 - Since I have not made PM due to the splitting that we do, I cannot personally vouch for the value of the PMUs, but my sense is that they are so difficult to use that many of the PMs consider them worthless. I have had my experience with the US DMUTAs which have many of the same constraints and have ended up not being able to use most of them.

4 - Do not believe that DL has "slightly better mileage redemption ability than CO." It was true for the last few years and we took full advantage of it but this year BE Standard awards do not seem to be at all available anywhere. However, I have within the last few months cashed in two OnePass trips, one to the UK on CO and back on VS and the other to S. America on Copa. I have found this sort of thing to be cyclical since a few years ago, the "NonePass" miles were very difficult to use and the SkyMiles much easier. IMO it is not unlikely that this will cycle back after a while.

Furthermore, our flights for business are strictly short-haul domestic (also lots of RJs) and altho I have no real constraints on ticket price, I always am looking to keep costs down for our companies and buy less expensive coach tickets where available. That means that we must use a domestic carrier's program in order to take advantage of the upgrading chances and it is no great penalty to now and then sit in coach on a short flight.

We do split our business because altho I much prefer DL out of NY, US has nonstops to some of our business destinations that provide much more convenience than changing at ATL, or even CVG. And US was (before the HP aircraft reconfiguring) just about a 100% upgrade on every route (except, of course, LAS) for Chairmen or Platinums and still provides a lot of those sweet *A miles.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Aug 1, 2007 11:37 am

Interesting responses. And now for something completely different...

I'll be in AUS this weekend, and was planning a trip out to Fredericksburg or Wimberley to see a bit of Texas wine country with the Significant Otter. As Luckenbach is fairly close to Fredericksburg, I was wondering if any of our numerous Texas-resident CO FTers had been out there. Is it worth a visit?

At the moment, the Significant Otter appears to be suffering from some sort of mental illness. She appeared to be displeased with two particularly smashing ideas:

1. Naming our firstborn son (whenever we get around to having one) Waylon; and
2. Purchasing a pet raccoon.

Surely no sane person could find fault with such brilliant ideas.

Hartmann Aug 1, 2007 11:51 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 8156620)
Interesting responses. And now for something completely different...

I'll be in AUS this weekend, and was planning a trip out to Fredericksburg or Wimberley to see a bit of Texas wine country with the Significant Otter. As Luckenbach is fairly close to Fredericksburg, I was wondering if any of our numerous Texas-resident CO FTers had been out there. Is it worth a visit?

At the moment, the Significant Otter appears to be suffering from some sort of mental illness. She appeared to be displeased with two particularly smashing ideas:

1. Naming our firstborn son (whenever we get around to having one) Waylon; and
2. Purchasing a pet raccoon.

Surely no sane person could find fault with such brilliant ideas.

I have somewhat of a biased opinion. My S/O lives in the hill country (Austin to be exact ;)) and I am of German/Czech decent with family spread from Hilda to the Moravia, TX area. Luckenbach is a great little town, especially if you are country music fan. I think it should be on the "must visit" list of Texans as it is what the Hill Country really is and what it used to be.

You could also hit up Gruene or the Canyon Lake area if it's hot (more than likely) and you want to take a dip.

"They call it the Hill Country, I call it home... But what will they call it, when it's leveled and paved?"

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Aug 1, 2007 12:00 pm


Originally Posted by Hartmann (Post 8156726)
I have somewhat of a biased opinion. My S/O lives in the hill country (Austin to be exact ;)) and I am of German/Czech decent with family spread from Hilda to the Moravia, TX area. Luckenbach is a great little town, especially if you are country music fan. I think it should be on the "must visit" list of Texans as it is what the Hill Country really is and what it used to be.

You could also hit up Gruene or the Canyon Lake area if it's hot (more than likely) and you want to take a dip.

"They call it the Hill Country, I call it home... But what will they call it, when it's leveled and paved?"

We both enjoy country music, but not what passes for it these days. If it's not Waylon, Willie or Merle, I'm not listening. Should we aim to eat in Fredericksburg, with its good dining options (and better wine lists), or is there decent food to be had in Luckenbach?

Dunno how often you get out there, but next time you're in Austin, it's well worth the drive out to Wimberley to try out the Wimberley Wine Bar. Great food and amazing wines, in a very cool setting.

colpuck Aug 1, 2007 12:03 pm


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 8156620)
Interesting responses. And now for something completely different...

I'll be in AUS this weekend, and was planning a trip out to Fredericksburg or Wimberley to see a bit of Texas wine country with the Significant Otter. As Luckenbach is fairly close to Fredericksburg, I was wondering if any of our numerous Texas-resident CO FTers had been out there. Is it worth a visit?

At the moment, the Significant Otter appears to be suffering from some sort of mental illness. She appeared to be displeased with two particularly smashing ideas:

1. Naming our firstborn son (whenever we get around to having one) Waylon; and
2. Purchasing a pet raccoon.

Surely no sane person could find fault with such brilliant ideas.

Fredericksburg is a great town to visit.

Your great ideas are otterly hilarious.
I crack myself up.

Hartmann Aug 1, 2007 12:13 pm


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 8156799)
We both enjoy country music, but not what passes for it these days. If it's not Waylon, Willie or Merle, I'm not listening. Should we aim to eat in Fredericksburg, with its good dining options (and better wine lists), or is there decent food to be had in Luckenbach?

Dunno how often you get out there, but next time you're in Austin, it's well worth the drive out to Wimberley to try out the Wimberley Wine Bar. Great food and amazing wines, in a very cool setting.

Been to Wimberley, so I'll have to check out the wine bar.

As far as food in Luckenbach is concerned, I'd stick with eating in Fredericksburg, you'll have a better number of options and better atmospheres (if you're looking for quiet and romantic). Luckenbach has some great BBQ and some good German food but you'll have to search for them (they're the kind of places that don't show up on Google Maps ;)).

In Fredericksburg I really enjoy Friedhelms Bavarian Restaurant.

For the music, yeah, no one is playing in Luckenbach or at Gruene that is worth seeing (IMO) so that may not be a great option. Coupland Dancehall in Coupland, TX (northeast of Austin) is a great little dive dancehall that my S/O and I frequent because it is much less crowded than the others and because it is still authentic and you get a great feel for the way a dancehall should be.

ssullivan Aug 1, 2007 12:28 pm

I'd probably go for DL if I was switching away from CO, because my last few flights with them have been very good, and a big improvement over what I'd experienced on DL a few years ago. However, I might also be willing to consider UA. I've never flown them on a mainline flight, but thanks to their little AKL fare mistake I'll be elite with them just over two weeks from now. So I'm considering booking a couple of trips on them later this year just to see how they are for domestic flying. But, unless something drastically changes, I expect to be a Platinum with CO for years to come.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Aug 1, 2007 12:37 pm


Originally Posted by colpuck (Post 8156826)
Fredericksburg is a great town to visit.

Your great ideas are otterly hilarious.
I crack myself up.

LOL. Regarding Fredericksburg, I consider it a shame that I've never properly explored it. I always used to view it (back in my college days) as a pit-stop on the way to Enchanted Rock. No more...

MilesDavis Aug 1, 2007 1:14 pm

I'm not much of a country music fan, but I love Willie and I blame it on my Texas upbringing and spending many summers at my grandpas in Canyon Lake listening to Willie and Hank Williams. He used to drink Lone Star and Longhorn by the case, but that's another story!

It's been a while for me, but the brew pub in Fredericksburg is pretty good.


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 8156799)
We both enjoy country music, but not what passes for it these days. If it's not Waylon, Willie or Merle, I'm not listening.


belynch Aug 1, 2007 3:46 pm

Let me step in the way-back machine and please allow me to make a comment on a topic ya'll have moved along from.

Definitely get all of your wisdom teeth out at once. I had 6 removed (yes, I grew up under power lines) and in retrospect having the sensation of being kicked in the mouth by an elephant once is far better than feeling it twice (unless you're into that).

Suggestion for the penalty box: CO treasure hunt games.

First up - I'll award a pet racoon to the first person who can spot the FAM with tourettes (there has to be only one, right?). I've had the pleasure of flying with this esteemed member of Kip Hawley's finest twice in the past two months. Anyone else had a sighting?

CO 1E Aug 1, 2007 4:05 pm

I would go with NW or DL if I were to move away from CO. It would be a toss-up; given my most frequently traveled routes, DL offers marginally better service from DC. But, DL has ATL, and I really do not like having to connect at ATL. If UA improves its product and service, I would also consider them, given that I live in DC and that UA is part of *A.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Aug 2, 2007 8:34 am

I'm having a serious case of the warm n' fuzzies for DL right now. Various mistake fares (EZE-ATL-JFK), and great QUP routings (IAH-SLC-ATL-MSY; DFW-ATL-SLC-SEA) have allowed me to book 68,000eqms worth of travel for next year, all in premium cabins, at a cost of 5cpeqm. Obviously, with RDM bonuses, the cpm figure is much lower. So far, it looks like most of my CO travel next year will be connector flights to make it to the starting point of DL MRs :D.


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