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gbryan84 Jun 8, 2010 12:07 pm

Ah ha! Backdoor way to "buy" PC points on the cheap.

CO 1E Jun 8, 2010 12:14 pm


Originally Posted by theblakefish (Post 14098713)
Holy Guacamole....did y'all see that EK just ordered 32 new A380's and is going to hire 700+ crewmembers?

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...bus-a380s.html

Wow...they had 58 on order previously, so they now have 90 on order with Airbus!!!

Yeah, I saw that. Don't know how they're going to support all that growth.

theblakefish Jun 8, 2010 12:20 pm


Originally Posted by CO 1E (Post 14098830)
Yeah, I saw that. Don't know how they're going to support all that growth.

Guess they expect the UAE to pull out of its economic mess sometime soon. I have never understood the UAE, nor the growth of an airline that basically flies to nowhere....I have flown EK and spent time in Dubai, and I still am :confused:

AMF in NJ Jun 8, 2010 12:22 pm


Originally Posted by gbryan84 (Post 14098793)
Ah ha! Backdoor way to "buy" PC points on the cheap.

So, if I read this right you make a cash and points reservation. The cash buys points that are used to make the reward amount whole. Then you cancel the reservation and all the points are deposited back. OK, but I don't get why he brings up the "PointBreaks" rooms. I think this trick would work on any reservation, or am I missing something? :confused:

sbm12 Jun 8, 2010 12:24 pm


Originally Posted by AMF in NJ (Post 14098880)
but I don't get why he brings up the "PointBreaks" rooms.

I'm guessing because those rooms can be booked by someone with very few points to begin with and/or at a cheaper rate to begin with so the process is either cheaper or easier.

AMF in NJ Jun 8, 2010 12:32 pm


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 14098893)
I'm guessing because those rooms can be booked by someone with very few points to begin with and/or at a cheaper rate to begin with so the process is either cheaper or easier.

Probably for folks that have few points to begin with. That would be my disconnect as I have more than enough points to not look for a PointBreak room, but I hoped I wasn't going to miss anything.

CO 1E Jun 8, 2010 12:55 pm


Originally Posted by theblakefish (Post 14098869)
Guess they expect the UAE to pull out of its economic mess sometime soon. I have never understood the UAE, nor the growth of an airline that basically flies to nowhere....I have flown EK and spent time in Dubai, and I still am :confused:

Dubai basically is financed through borrowing and acting as a financial intermediary/investment location for legitimate and, increasingly, illegitimate sources in Asia (especially South Asia) and places like Russia. You probably are aware of this already, but Dubai is having debt and asset bubble problems right now, with their real estate market tanking over the past 1.5 years and the debt of several state-owned enterprises having to be restructured. Abu Dhabi helped bail them out a bit with repect to the debt issue.

Unless the flow of illegitimate money continues to pour in, I do not see how Dubai will continue to grow at anything near the pace at which it has expanded in the last decade. Also keep in mind that Dubai does not have much oil at all relative to some of its neighbors.

Abu Dhabi has been far more fiscally conservative, and has more oil than, Dubai. Thus, Abu Dhabi may fare better in the medium-term.

With respect to EK, I would not quite say that it goes to nowhere. Rather, it has structured itself as a premium airline whose hub makes it convenient for passengers who need to fly about halfway around the world and who do not have nonstop options nor other convenient connection opportunities. Also, it markets itself to those who need to fly from the US to Africa, Europe to the Middle East, Asia to Europe, or Asia to Africa, and do not have nonstop or other convenient options. The position of Dubai, geographically, puts EK in that unique position.

Now, the problem is that EK competes directly with European carriers on the above-mentioned routes, except Asia-Africa because of the extra time required to backtrack up to Europe. Many Euro carriers have premium products that can at least compete on a product and, to some extent, timing basis with EK and eat into EK's market share, I would imagine. EK also has to compete with the likes of SQ and TG for the Asia to Europe market, where such carriers offer nonstops and EK requires a connection in DXB.

Now, EK does a brisk business on a standalone basis on US-DXB, DXB-South Asia, and DXB-Europe, plus offers enough connections that it beats other carriers on schedule, sometimes. But, I would venture a guess that the majority of their passengers are connecting from one region to another and as a result, they are not dependent on favorable economic conditions in DXB to feed increasing passenger numbers. If you think about it, SQ is the same type of carrier, but lacks the "[geographic] center of the world" hub location that DXB has. Thus, IMO it is easy to see how EK has grown into the carrier it is today.

Nonetheless, I fail to see how (1) they will take away so much market share from the competition, and/or (2) how market for connections, in general, will increase so much in the short to medium-term, that they can justify a fleet with 90 A380s.

ConciergeMike Jun 8, 2010 1:03 pm


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 14098555)
I want to haz that dot. Then again, I want to haz every dot.

I want to haz that dot too, but moreso for anything than to visit the family I have in that part of the world. I did some playing on AirAsia.com and found lots of fun dots and lines that I can haz for cheap in getting to/from there.


Originally Posted by CO 1E (Post 14099031)
Dubai basically is financed through borrowing and acting as a financial intermediary/investment location for legitimate and, increasingly, illegitimate sources in Asia (especially South Asia) and places like Russia. You probably are aware of this already, but Dubai is having debt and asset bubble problems right now, with their real estate market tanking over the past 1.5 years and the debt of several state-owned enterprises having to be restructured. Abu Dhabi helped bail them out a bit with repect to the debt issue.

Unless the flow of illegitimate money continues to pour in, I do not see how Dubai will continue to grow at anything near the pace at which it has expanded in the last decade. Also keep in mind that Dubai does not have much oil at all relative to some of its neighbors.

Abu Dhabi has been far more fiscally conservative, and has more oil than, Dubai. Thus, Abu Dhabi may fare better in the medium-term.

With respect to EK, I would not quite say that it goes to nowhere. Rather, it has structured itself as a premium airline whose hub makes it convenient for passengers who need to fly about halfway around the world and who do not have nonstop options nor other convenient connection opportunities. Also, it markets itself to those who need to fly from the US to Africa, Europe to the Middle East, Asia to Europe, or Asia to Africa, and do not have nonstop or other convenient options. The position of Dubai, geographically, puts EK in that unique position.

Now, the problem is that EK competes directly with European carriers on the above-mentioned routes, except Asia-Africa because of the extra time required to backtrack up to Europe. Many Euro carriers have premium products that can at least compete on a product and, to some extent, timing basis with EK and eat into EK's market share, I would imagine. EK also has to compete with the likes of SQ and TG for the Asia to Europe market, where such carriers offer nonstops and EK requires a connection in DXB.

Now, EK does a brisk business on a standalone basis on US-DXB, DXB-South Asia, and DXB-Europe, plus offers enough connections that it beats other carriers on schedule, sometimes. But, I would venture a guess that the majority of their passengers are connecting from one region to another and as a result, they are not dependent on favorable economic conditions in DXB to feed increasing passenger numbers. If you think about it, SQ is the same type of carrier, but lacks the "[geographic] center of the world" hub location that DXB has. Thus, IMO it is easy to see how EK has grown into the carrier it is today.

Nonetheless, I fail to see how (1) they will take away so much market share from the competition, and/or (2) how market for connections, in general, will increase so much in the short to medium-term, that they can justify a fleet with 90 A380s.

This post is so long that there is no possible way it could fail to be helpful.

theblakefish Jun 8, 2010 1:06 pm


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 14099065)
This post is so long that there is no possible way it could fail to be helpful.

:-:

xFF Jun 8, 2010 1:09 pm

Oh Boy! My new Thinkpad is rattling around pending delivery; from Fedex.com:

Date/Time Activity Location
Jun 8, 2010 7:55 AM On FedEx vehicle for delivery AUSTIN, TX

CO 1E, very thoughtful separation of the positions of Dubai and EK.

Now I'm gonna pull a battery, and then go wait at the "office" (mailbox store) like a kid on Christmas morning.

CO 1E Jun 8, 2010 1:17 pm


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 14099065)
I want to haz that dot too, but moreso for anything than to visit the family I have in that part of the world. I did some playing on AirAsia.com and found lots of fun dots and lines that I can haz for cheap in getting to/from there.



This post is so long that there is no possible way it could fail to be helpful.

That's long for a helpful Box post.

FT Lurker Jun 8, 2010 1:18 pm

I have located the perfect wedding present for our soon-to-be married Boxers:

Better Marriage Blanket

ConciergeMike Jun 8, 2010 1:21 pm


Originally Posted by FT Lurker (Post 14099155)
I have located the perfect wedding present for our soon-to-be married Boxers:

Better Marriage Blanket

Copa Connection approves this message and applauds this helpful post.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Jun 8, 2010 1:24 pm


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 14099065)
This post is so long that there is no possible way it could fail to be helpful.


Originally Posted by Constitution of Botswana
CHAPTER I
The Republic (ss 1-2)
1. Declaration of Republic
Botswana is a sovereign Republic.
2. Public Seal
The Public Seal of the Republic shall be such device as may be prescribed by or
under an Act of Parliament.
CHAPTER II
Protection of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms of the Individual (ss 3-19)
3. Fundamental rights and freedoms of the individual
Whereas every person in Botswana is entitled to the fundamental rights and
freedoms of the individual, that is to say, the right, whatever his race, place of
origin, political opinions, colour, creed or sex, but subject to respect for the rights
and freedoms of others and for the public interest to each and all of the following,
namely—
(a) life, liberty, security of the person and the protection of the law;
(b) freedom of conscience, of expression and of assembly and association;
and
(c) protection for the privacy of his home and other property and from
deprivation of property without compensation, the provisions of this Chapter shall
have effect for the purpose of affording protection to those rights and freedoms
subject to such limitations of that protection as are contained in those provisions,
being limitations designed to ensure that the enjoyment of the said rights and
freedoms by any individual does not prejudice the rights and freedoms of others
or the public interest.
4. Protection of right to life
(1) No person shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in execution of the
sentence of a court in respect of an offence under the law in force in Botswana of
which he has been convicted.
(2) A person shall not be regarded as having been deprived of his life in
contravention of subsection (1) of this section if he dies as the result of the use, to
such extent and in such circumstances as are permitted by law, of such force as is
reasonably justifiable—
(a) for the defence of any person from violence or for the defence of property;
(b) in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent the escape of a person
lawfully detained;
(c) for the purpose of suppressing a riot, insurrection or mutiny; or
(d) in order to prevent the commission by that person of a criminal offence, or
if he dies as the result of a lawful act of war.
5. Protection of right to personal liberty
(1) No person shall be deprived of his personal liberty save as may be authorized
by law in any of the following cases, that is to say—
(a) in execution of the sentence or order of a court, whether established for
Botswana or some other country, in respect of a criminal offence of which he has
been convicted;
(b) in execution of the order of a court of record punishing him for contempt
of that or another court;
(c) in execution of the order of a court made to secure the fulfilment of any
obligation imposed on him by law;
(d) for the purpose of bringing him before a court in execution of the order of
a court;
(e) upon reasonable suspicion of his having committed, or being about to
commit, a criminal offence under the law in force in Botswana;
(f) under the order of a court or with the consent of his parent or guardian, for
his education or welfare during any period ending not later than the date when he
attains the age of 18 years;
(g) for the purpose of preventing the spread of an infectious or contagious
disease;
(h) in the case of a person who is, or is reasonably suspected to be, of unsound
mind, addicted to drugs or alcohol, or a vagrant, for the purpose of his care or
treatment or the protection of the community;
(i) for the purpose of preventing the unlawful entry of that person into
Botswana, or for the purpose of effecting the expulsion, extradition or other
lawful removal of that person from Botswana, or for the purpose of restricting that
person while he is being conveyed through Botswana in the course of his
extradition or removal as a convicted prisoner from one country to another;
(j) to such extent as may be necessary in the execution of a lawful order
requiring that person to remain within a specified area within Botswana or
prohibiting him from being within such an area, or to such extent as may be
reasonably justifiable for the taking of proceedings against that person relating to
the making of any such order, or to such extent as may be reasonably justifiable
for restraining that person during any visit that he is permitted to make to any part
of Botswana in which, in consequence of any such order, his presence would
otherwise be unlawful; or
(k) for the purpose of ensuring the safety of aircraft in flight.
(2) Any person who is arrested or detained shall be informed as soon as
reasonably practicable, in a language that he understands, of the reasons for his
arrest or detention.
(3) Any person who is arrested or detained—
(a) for the purpose of bringing him before a court in execution of the order of
a court; or
(b) upon reasonable suspicion of his having committed, or being about to
commit, a criminal offence under the law in force in Botswana, and who is not
released, shall be brought as soon as is reasonably practicable before a court; and
if any person arrested or detained as mentioned in paragraph (b) of this subsection
is not tried within a reasonable time, then, without prejudice to any further
proceedings that may be brought against him, he shall be released either
unconditionally or upon reasonable conditions, including in particular such
conditions as are reasonably necessary to ensure that he appears at a later date for
trial or for proceedings preliminary to trial.
(4) Any person who is unlawfully arrested or detained by any other person shall
be entitled to compensation therefor from that other person.
6. Protection from slavery and forced labour
(1) No person shall be held in slavery or servitude.
(2) No person shall be required to perform forced labour.
(3) For the purposes of this section, the expression "forced labour" does not
include—
(a) any labour required in consequence of the sentence or order of a court;
(b) labour required of any person while he is lawfully detained that, though
not required in consequence of the sentence or order of a court, is reasonably
necessary in the interests of hygiene or for the maintenance of the place at which
he is detained;
(c) any labour required of a member of a disciplined force in pursuance of his
duties as such or, in the case of a person who has conscientious objections to
service as a member of a naval, military or air force, any labour that that person is
required by law to perform in place of such service;
(d) any labour required during any period of public emergency or in the event
of any other emergency or calamity that threatens the life and well-being of the
community, to the extent that the requiring of such labour is reasonably justifiable
in the circumstances of any situation arising or existing during that period or as a
result of that other emergency or calamity, for the purpose of dealing with that
situation; or
(e) any labour reasonably required as part of reasonable and normal
communal or other civic obligations.
7. Protection from inhuman treatment
(1) No person shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading punishment
or other treatment.
(2) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of this section to the extent that the law in
question authorizes the infliction of any description of punishment that was lawful
in the country immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution.
8. Protection from deprivation of property
(1) No property of any description shall be compulsorily taken possession of, and
no interest in or right over property of any description shall be compulsorily
acquired, except where the following conditions are satisfied, that is to say—
(a) the taking of possession or acquisition is necessary or expedient—
(i) in the interests of defence, public safety, public order, public
morality, public health, town and country planning or land settlement;
(ii) in order to secure the development or utilization of that, or other,
property for a purpose beneficial to the community; or
(iii) in order to secure the development or utilization of the mineral
resources of Botswana; and
(b) provision is made by a law applicable to that taking of possession or
acquisition—
(i) for the prompt payment of adequate compensation; and
(ii) securing to any person having an interest in or right over the
property a right of access to the High Court, either direct or on appeal from any
other authority, for the determination of his interest or right, the legality of the
taking of possession or acquisition of the property, interest or right, and the
amount of any compensation to which he is entitled, and for the purpose of
obtaining prompt payment of that compensation.
(2) No person who is entitled to compensation under this section shall be
prevented from remitting, within a reasonable time after he has received any
amount of that compensation, the whole of that amount (free from any deduction,
charge or tax made or levied in respect of its remission) to any country of his
choice outside Botswana.
(3) Subsection (1)(b)(i) of this section shall be deemed to be satisfied in relation
to any 30 of 1969 Law applicable to the taking of possession of minerals or the
acquisition of rights to minerals if that law makes provision for the payment at
reasonable intervals of adequate royalties.
(4) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of subsection (2) of this section to the extent
that the law in question authorizes—
(a) the attachment, by order of a court, of any amount of compensation to
which a person is entitled in satisfaction of the judgment of a court or pending the
determination of civil proceedings to which he is a party; or
(b) the imposition of reasonable restrictions on the manner in which any
amount of compensation is to be remitted.
(5) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of subsection (1) of this section—
(a) to the extent that the law in question makes provision for the taking of
possession or acquisition of any property—
(i) in satisfaction of any tax, rate or due;
(ii) by way of penalty for breach of the law whether under civil
process or after conviction of a criminal offence under the law in force in
Botswana;
(iii) as an incident of a lease, tenancy, mortgage, charge, bill of sale,
pledge or contract;
(iv) in the execution of judgments or orders of a court in proceedings
for the determination of civil rights or obligations;
(v) in circumstances where it is reasonably necessary to do so because
the property is in a dangerous state or injurious to the health of human beings,
animals or plants;
(vi) in consequence of any law with respect to the limitation of actions;
or
(vii) for so long only as may be necessary for the purposes of any
examination, investigation, trial or inquiry or, in the case of land, for the purposes
of the carrying out thereon of work of soil conservation or the conservation of
other natural resources or work relating to agricultural development or
improvement (being work relating to such development or improvement that the
owner or occupier of the land has been required, and has without reasonable
excuse refused or failed, to carry out),
and except so far as that provision or, as the case may be, the thing done
under the authority thereof is shown not to be reasonably justifiable in a
democratic society; or
(b) to the extent that the law in question makes provision for the taking of
possession or acquisition of—
(i) enemy property;
(ii) property of a deceased person, a person of unsound mind, a person
who has not attained the age of 21 years, a prodigal, or a person who is absent
from Botswana, for the purpose of its administration for the benefit of the persons
entitled to the beneficial interest therein;
(iii) property of a person declared to be insolvent or a body corporate in
liquidation, for the purpose of its administration for the benefit of the creditors of
the insolvent or body corporate and, subject thereto, for the benefit of other
persons entitled to the beneficial interest in the property; or
(iv) property subject to a trust, for the purpose of vesting the property
in persons appointed as trustees under the instrument creating the trust or by a
court, or by order of a court, for the purpose of giving effect to the trust.
(6) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of subsection (1) of this section to the extent
that the law in question makes provision for the compulsory taking of possession
in the public interest of any property, or the compulsory acquisition in the public
interest in or right over property, where that property, interest or right is held by a
body corporate established by law for public purposes in which no moneys have
been invested other than moneys provided by Parliament.
9. Protection for privacy of home and other property
(1) Except with his own consent, no person shall be subjected to the search of his
person or his property or the entry by others on his premises.
(2) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of this section to the extent that the law in
question makes provision—
(a) that is reasonably required in the interests of defence, public safety, public
order, public morality, public health, town and country planning, the development
and utilization of mineral resources, for the purpose of any census or in order to
secure the development or utilization of any property for a purpose beneficial to
the community;
(b) that is reasonably required for the purpose of protecting the rights or
freedoms of other persons;
(c) that authorizes an officer or agent of the Government of Botswana, a local
government authority or a body corporate established by law for a public purpose
to enter on the premises of any person in order to inspect those premises or
anything thereon for the purpose of any tax, rate or duty or in order to carry out
work connected with any property that is lawfully on those premises and that
belongs to that Government, authority or body corporate, as the case may be; or
(d) that authorizes, for the purpose of enforcing the judgment or order of a
court in any civil proceedings, the search of any person or property by order of a
court or entry upon any premises by such order, and except so far as that
provision or, as the case may be, anything done under the authority thereof is
shown not to be reasonably justifiable in a democratic society.
10. Provisions to secure protection of law
(1) If any person is charged with a criminal offence, then, unless the charge is
withdrawn, the case shall be afforded a fair hearing within a reasonable time by
an independent and impartial court established or recognized by law.
(2) Every person who is charged with a criminal offence—
(a) shall be presumed to be innocent until he is proved or has pleaded guilty;
(b) shall be informed as soon as reasonably practicable, in a language that he
understands and in detail, of the nature of the offence charged;
(c) shall be given adequate time and facilities for the preparation of his
defence;
(d) shall be permitted to defend himself before the court in person or, at his
own expense, by a legal representative of his own choice;
(e) shall be afforded facilities to examine in person or by his legal
representative the witnesses called by the prosecution before the court, and to
obtain the attendance and carry out the examination of witnesses to testify on his
behalf before the court on the same conditions as those applying to witnesses
called by the prosecution; and
(f) shall be permitted to have without payment the assistance of an interpreter
if he cannot understand the language used at the trial of the charge, and except
with his own consent the trial shall not take place in his absence unless he so
conducts himself as to render the continuance of the proceedings in his presence
impracticable and the court has ordered him to be removed and the trial to
proceed in his absence.
(3) When a person is tried for any criminal offence, the accused person or any
person authorized by him in that behalf shall, if he so requires and subject to
payment of such reasonable fee as may be prescribed by law, be given within a
reasonable time after judgment a copy for the use of the accused person of any
record of the proceedings made by or on behalf of the court.
(4) No person shall be held to be guilty of a criminal offence on account of any
act or omission that did not, at the time it took place, constitute such an offence,
and no penalty shall be imposed for any criminal offence that is severer in degree
or description than the maximum penalty that might have been imposed for that
offence at the time when it was committed.
(5) No person who shows that he has been tried by a competent court for a
criminal offence and either convicted or acquitted shall again be tried for that
offence or for any other criminal offence of which he could have been convicted
at the trial for that offence, save upon the order of a superior court in the course of
appeal or review proceedings relating to the conviction or acquittal.
(6) No person shall be tried for a criminal offence if he shows that he has been
pardoned for that offence.
(7) No person who is tried for a criminal offence shall be compelled to give
evidence at the trial.
(8) No person shall be convicted of a criminal offence unless that offence is
defined and the penalty therefor is prescribed in a written law:
Provided that nothing in this subsection shall prevent a court of record from
punishing any person for contempt of itself notwithstanding that the act or
omission constituting the contempt is not defined in a written law and the penalty
therefor is not so prescribed.
(9) Any court or other adjudicating authority prescribed by law for the
determination of the existence or extent of any civil right or obligation shall be
established or recognized by law and shall be independent and impartial; and
where proceedings for such a determination are instituted by any person before
such a court or other adjudicating authority, the case shall be given a fair hearing
within a reasonable time.
(10) Except with the agreement of all the parties thereto, all proceedings of every
court and proceedings for the determination of the existence or extent of any civil
right or obligation before any other adjudicating authority, including the
announcement of the decision of the court or other authority, shall be held in
public.
(11) Nothing in subsection (10) shall prevent the court or other adjudicating
authority from excluding from the proceedings persons other than the parties
thereto and their legal representatives to such extent as the court or other
authority—
(a) may consider necessary or expedient in circumstances where publicity
would prejudice the interests of justice or in interlocutory proceedings; or
(b) may be empowered by law to do so in the interests of defence, public
safety, public order, public morality, the welfare of persons under the age of 18
years or the protection of the private lives of persons concerned in the
proceedings.
(12) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to
be inconsistent with or in contravention of—
(a) subsection (2)(a) of this section to the extent that the law in question
imposes upon any person charged with a criminal offence the burden of proving
particular facts;
(b) subsection (2)(d) or (2)(e) of this section to the extent that the law in
question prohibits legal representation before a subordinate court in proceedings
for an offence under customary law (being proceedings against any person who,
under that law, is subject to that law);
(c) subsection (2)(c) of this section to the extent that the law in question
imposes reasonable conditions that must be satisfied if witnesses called to testify
on behalf of an accused person are to be paid their expenses out of public funds;
(d) subsection (5) of this section to the extent that the law in question
authorizes a court to try a member of a disciplined force for a criminal offence
notwithstanding any trial and conviction or acquittal of that member under the
disciplinary law of that force, so, however, that any court so trying such a member
and convicting him shall in sentencing him to any punishment take into account
any punishment awarded him under that disciplinary law;
(e) subsection (8) of this section to the extent that the law in question
authorizes a court to convict a person of a criminal offence under any customary
law to which, by virtue of that law, such person is subject.
(13) In the case of any person who is held in lawful detention, the provisions of
subsection (1), subsection (2)(d) and (e) and subsection (3) of this section shall
not apply in relation to his trial for a criminal offence under the law regulating the
discipline of persons held in such detention.
(14) In this section "criminal offence" means a criminal offence under the law in
force in Botswana.
11. Protection of freedom of conscience
(1) Except with his own consent, no person shall be hindered in the enjoyment of
his freedom of conscience, and for the purposes of this section the said freedom
includes freedom of thought and of religion, freedom to change his religion or
belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others, and both in public
and in private, to manifest and propagate his religion or belief in worship,
teaching, practice and observance.
(2) Every religious community shall be entitled, at its own expense, to establish
and maintain places of education and to manage any place of education which it
wholly maintains; and no such community shall be prevented from providing
religious instruction for persons of that community in the course of any education
provided at any place of education which it wholly maintains or in the course of
any education which it otherwise provides.
(3) Except with his own consent (or, if he is a minor, the consent of his guardian)
no person attending any place of education shall be required to receive religious
instruction or to take part in or attend any religious ceremony or observance if that
instruction, ceremony or observance relates to a religion other than his own.
(4) No person shall be compelled to take any oath which is contrary to his religion
or belief or to take any oath in a manner which is contrary to his religion or belief.
(5) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of this section to the extent that the law in
question makes provision which is reasonably required—
(a) in the interests of defence, public safety, public order, public morality or
public health; or
(b) for the purpose of protecting the rights and freedoms of other persons,
including the right to observe and practise any religion without the unsolicited
intervention of members of any other religion, and except so far as that provision
or, as the case may be, the thing done under the authority thereof is shown not to
be reasonably justifiable in a democratic society.
12. Protection of freedom of expression
(1) Except with his own consent, no person shall be hindered in the enjoyment of
his freedom of expression, that is to say, freedom to hold opinions without
interference, freedom to receive ideas and information without interference,
freedom to communicate ideas and information without interference (whether the
communication be to the public generally or to any person or class of persons)
and freedom from interference with his correspondence.
(2) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of this section to the extent that the law in
question makes provision—
(a) that is reasonably required in the interests of defence, public safety, public
order, public morality or public health; or
(b) that is reasonably required for the purpose of protecting the reputations,
rights and freedoms of other persons or the private lives of persons concerned in
legal proceedings, preventing the disclosure of information received in
confidence, maintaining the authority and independence of the courts, regulating
educational institutions in the interests of persons receiving instruction therein, or
regulating the technical administration or the technical operation of telephony,
telegraphy, posts, wireless, broadcasting or television; or
(c) that imposes restrictions upon public officers, employees of local
government bodies, or teachers, and except so far as that provision or, as the case
may be, the thing done under the authority thereof is shown not to be reasonably
justifiable in a democratic society.
13. Protection of freedom of assembly and association
(1) Except with his own consent, no person shall be hindered in the enjoyment of
his freedom of assembly and association, that is to say, his right to assemble
freely and associate with other persons and in particular to form or belong to trade
unions or other associations for the protection of his interests.
(2) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of this section to the extent that the law in
question makes provision—
(a) that is reasonably required in the interests of defence, public safety, public
order, public morality or public health;
(b) that is reasonably required for the purpose of protecting the rights or
freedoms of other persons;
(c) that imposes restrictions upon public officers, employees of local
government bodies, or teachers; or
(d) for the registration of trade unions and associations of trade unions in a
register established by or under any law, and for imposing reasonable conditions
relating to the requirements for entry on such a register (including conditions as to
the minimum number of persons necessary to constitute a trade union qualified
for registration, or of members necessary to constitute an association of trade
unions qualified for registration) and conditions whereby registration may be
refused on the grounds that any other trade union already registered, or
association of trade unions already registered, as the case may be, is sufficiently
representative of the whole or of a substantial proportion of the interests in respect
of which registration of a trade union or association of trade unions is sought, and
except so far as that provision or, as the case may be, the thing done under the
authority thereof is shown not to be reasonably justifiable in a democratic society.
14. Protection of freedom of movement
(1) No person shall be deprived of his freedom of movement, and for the purposes
of this section the said freedom means the right to move freely throughout
Botswana, the right to reside in any part of Botswana, the right to enter Botswana
and immunity from expulsion from Botswana.
(2) Any restriction on a person's freedom of movement that is involved in his
lawful detention shall not be held to be inconsistent with or in contravention of
this section.
(3) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of this section to the extent that the law in
question makes provision—
(a) for the imposition of restrictions that are reasonably required in the
interests of defence, public safety, public order, public morality or public health
or the imposition of restrictions on the acquisition or use by any person of land or
other property in Botswana and except so far as that provision or, as the case may
be, the thing done under the authority thereof, is shown not to be reasonably
justifiable in a democratic society;
(b) for the imposition of restrictions on the freedom of movement of any
person who is not a citizen of Botswana;
(c) for the imposition of restrictions on the entry into or residence within
defined areas of Botswana of persons who are not Bushmen to the extent that such
restrictions are reasonably required for the protection or well-being of Bushmen;
(d) for the imposition of restrictions upon the movement or residence within
Botswana of public officers; or
(e) for the removal of a person from Botswana to be tried outside Botswana
for a criminal offence or to undergo imprisonment in some other country in
execution of the sentence of a court in respect of a criminal offence under the law
in force in Botswana of which he has been convicted.
(4) If any person whose freedom of movement has been restricted by order under
such a provision as is referred to in subsection (3)(a) of this section (other than a
restriction which is applicable to persons generally or to general classes of
persons) so requests at any time during the period of that restriction not earlier
than six months after the order was made or six months after he last made such
request, as the case may be, his case shall be reviewed by an independent and
impartial tribunal presided over by a person, qualified to be enrolled as an
advocate in Botswana, appointed by the Chief Justice.
(5) On any review by a tribunal in pursuance of this section of the case of a
person whose freedom of movement has been restricted, the tribunal may make
recommendations, concerning the necessity or expediency of continuing the
restriction to the authority by which it was ordered but, unless it is otherwise
provided by law, that authority shall not be obliged to act in accordance with any
such recommendations.
15. Protection from discrimination on the grounds of race, etc.
(1) Subject to the provisions of subsections (4), (5) and (7) of this section, no law
shall make any provision that is discriminatory either of itself or in its effect.
(2) Subject to the provisions of subsections (6), (7) and (8) of this section, no
person shall be treated in a discriminatory manner by any person acting by virtue
of any written law or in the performance of the functions of any public office or
any public authority.
(3) In this section, the expression "discriminatory" means affording different
treatment to different persons, attributable wholly or mainly to their respective
descriptions by race, tribe, place of origin, political opinions, colour or creed
whereby persons of one such description are subjected to disabilities or
restrictions to which persons of another such description are not made subject or
are accorded privileges or advantages which are not accorded to persons of
another such description.
(4) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to any law so far as that law
makes provision—
(a) for the appropriation of public revenues or other public funds;
(b) with respect to persons who are not citizens of Botswana;
(c) with respect to adoption, marriage, divorce, burial, devolution of property
on death or other matters of personal law;
(d) for the application in the case of members of a particular race, community
or tribe of customary law with respect to any matter whether to the exclusion of
any law in respect to that matter which is applicable in the case of other persons
or not; or
(e) whereby persons of any such description as is mentioned in subsection (3)
of this section may be subjected to any disability or restriction or may be accorded
any privilege or advantage which, having regard to its nature and to special
circumstances pertaining to those persons or to persons of any other such
description, is reasonably justifiable in a democratic society.
(5) Nothing contained in any law shall be held to be inconsistent with or in
contravention of subsection (1) of this section to the extent that it makes
reasonable provision with respect to qualifications for service as a public officer
or as a member of a disciplined force or for the service of a local government
authority or a body corporate established directly by any law.
(6) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply to anything which is expressly or
by necessary implication authorized to be done by any such provision of law as is
referred to in subsection (4) or (5) of this section.
(7) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of this section to the extent that the law in
question makes provision whereby persons of any such description as is
mentioned in subsection (3) of this section may be subjected to any restriction on
the rights and freedoms guaranteed by sections 9, 11, 12, 13 and 14 of this
Constitution, being such a restriction as is authorized by section 9(2), 11(5), 12(2)
13(2), or 14(3), as the case may be.
(8) Nothing in subsection (2) of this section shall affect any discretion relating to
the institution, conduct or discontinuance of civil or criminal proceedings in any
court that is vested in any person by or under this Constitution or any other law.
(9) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with the provisions of this section—
(a) if that law was in force immediately before the coming into operation of
this Constitution and has continued in force at all times since the coming into
operation of this Constitution; or
(b) to the extent that the law repeals and re-enacts any provision which has
been contained in any written law at all times since immediately before the
coming into operation of this Constitution.
16. Derogation from fundamental rights and freedoms
(1) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be
inconsistent with or in contravention of section 5 or 15 of this Constitution to the
extent that the law authorizes the taking during any period when Botswana is at
war or any period when a declaration under section 17 of this Constitution is in
force, of measures that are reasonably justifiable for the purpose of dealing with
the situation that exists during that period.
(2) Where a person is detained by virtue of such an authorization as is referred to
in subsection (1) of this section the following provisions shall apply—
(a) he shall, as soon as reasonably practicable and in any case not more than
five days after the commencement of his detention, be furnished with a statement
in writing in a language that he understands specifying in detail the grounds upon
which he is detained;
(b) not more than 14 days after the commencement of his detention, a
notification shall be published in the Gazette stating that he has been detained and
giving particulars of the provision of law under which his detention is authorized;
(c) not more than one month after the commencement of his detention and
thereafter during his detention at intervals of not more than six months, his case
shall be reviewed by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law and
presided over by a person, qualified to be enrolled as an advocate in Botswana,
appointed by the Chief Justice; and
(d) he shall be afforded reasonable facilities to consult and instruct, at his own
expense, a legal representative and he and any such legal representative shall be
permitted to make written or oral representations or both to the tribunal appointed
for the review of his case.
(3) On any review by a tribunal in pursuance of this section of the case of a
detained person, the tribunal may make recommendations, concerning the
necessity or expediency of continuing his detention, to the authority by which it
was ordered but, unless it is otherwise provided by law, that authority shall not be
obliged to act in accordance with any such recommendations.
17. Declarations relating to emergencies
(1) The President may at any time, by Proclamation published in the Gazette,
declare that a state of public emergency exists.
(2) A declaration under subsection (1) of this section, if not sooner revoked, shall
cease to have effect—
(a) in the case of a declaration made when Parliament is sitting or has been
summoned to meet within seven days, at the expiration of a period of seven days
beginning with the date of publication of the declaration; or
(b) in any other case, at the expiration of a period of 21 days beginning with
the date of publication of the declaration, unless before the expiration of that
period, it is approved by a resolution passed by the National Assembly, supported
by the votes of a majority of all the voting members of the Assembly.
(3) Subject to the provisions of subsection (4) of this section, a declaration
approved by a resolution of the National Assembly under subsection (2) of this
section shall continue in force until the expiration of a period of six months
beginning with the date of its being so approved or until such earlier date as may
be specified in the resolution:
Provided that the National Assembly may, by resolution, supported by the votes
of a majority of all the voting members of the Assembly, extend its approval of
the declaration for periods of not more than six months at a time.
(4) The National Assembly may by resolution at any time revoke a declaration
approved by the Assembly under this section.
18. Enforcement of protective provisions
(1) Subject to the provisions of subsection (5) of this section, if any person alleges
that any of the provisions of sections 3 to 16 (inclusive) of this Constitution has
been, is being or is likely to be contravened in relation to him, then, without
prejudice to any other action with respect to the same matter which is lawfully
available, that person may apply to the High Court for redress.
(2) The High Court shall have original jurisdiction—
(a) to hear and determine any application made by any person in pursuance of
subsection (1) of this section; or
(b) to determine any question arising in the case of any person which is
referred to it in pursuance of subsection (3) of this section, and may make such
orders, issue such writs and give such direction as it may consider appropriate for
the purpose of enforcing or securing the enforcement of any of the provisions of
sections 3 to 16 (inclusive) of this Constitution.
(3) If in any proceedings in any subordinate court any question arises as to the
contravention of any of the provisions of sections 3 to 16 (inclusive) of this
Constitution, the person presiding in that court may, and shall if any party to the
proceedings so requests, refer the question to the High Court unless, in his
opinion, the raising of the question is merely frivolous or vexatious.
(4) Parliament may confer upon the High Court such powers in addition to those
conferred by this section as may appear to be necessary or desirable for the
purpose of enabling that court more effectively to exercise the jurisdiction
conferred upon it by this section.
(5) Rules of court making provision with respect to the practice and procedure of
the High Court for the purposes of this section may be made by the person or
authority for the time being having power to make rules of court with respect to
the practice and procedure of that court generally.
19. Interpretation and savings
(1) In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires—
"court" means any court of law having jurisdiction in Botswana other than a court
established by a disciplinary law, and in sections 4 and 6 of this Constitution a
court established by a disciplinary law;
"disciplinary law" means a law regulating the discipline of any disciplined force;
"disciplined force" means—
(a) a naval, military or air force;
(b) a police force; or
(c) a prison service;
"legal representative" means a person entitled to practise in Botswana as an
advocate or attorney;
"member", in relation to a disciplined force, includes any person who, under the
law regulating the discipline of that force, is subject to that discipline.
(2) In relation to any person who is a member of a disciplined force raised under
an Act of Parliament, nothing contained in or done under the authority of the
disciplinary law of that force shall be held to be inconsistent with or in
contravention of any of the provisions of this Chapter other than sections 4, 6 and
7.
(3) In relation to any person who is a member of a disciplined force raised
otherwise than as aforesaid and lawfully present in Botswana, nothing contained
in or done under the authority of the disciplinary law of that force shall be held to
be inconsistent with or in contravention of any of the provisions of this Chapter.

:-:

Scott6067 Jun 8, 2010 1:24 pm


Originally Posted by jrzyshawn (Post 14098588)
sfobs, my schedule changed again. I am working 6-2 on Friday, so I should be able to make it to EWR.

I get in around 1:30 or 2.. will drink one while I wait for the rest!!


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 14098555)
I want to haz that dot. Then again, I want to haz every dot.

Your a dot whore!! (I am one too!!)


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