ozstamps

But you did mail that Ben Franklin first I hope?

Glen

GUWonder

Remember, don't alienate the base.

opus17

I was for the avatars before I was against them, or vice versa.

Randy Petersen

Oz, if you would check with any member who has a I Voted label next to their name and it is contains the red, white and blue colors as well, you'll find that in each and every case, it was self-selected by those members. FT has no desire to shove America down yours or any Canadians throat. As was explained, we do have a desire to promote voting in as much a indiscreet way as possible. As for the other label, it was the idea from which this was formed:
http://www.boingboing.net/images/vote-vomit_lg.JPG

We didn't think the I Vomitted was a particularly campaign, but we liked the idea of I Votes as a visual reminder to get the vote out.

If you notice, we originally copied this label as it is a fairly standard button. But once we had the idea in place, we as well thought it best to have a generic label for everyone, so we then created the FT I Voted label which we then decided to make the default. We did not purposely create an American label, rather left that one quite by accident as we were creating the idea of getting the vote out. As for the international thing, you surely know that historically and factually i wrote the first rules of the TB so that it was mandatory to include representation of members outside of the U.S., so please, none of this U.S.-centric stuff, it does not hold to the factual history of the actions of the HOM.

Here's what is strange about this whole thing...... many of you have used FT live chat, either to attend a live session with guests or to chat with others into the night. In chat, you are automatically assigned by default logo and no one has ever complained about that system. Members can as well choose a label of another image if you wish, though it is not mandatory and guess what, all the labels of all the programs of the world are not available. The point being, that there is a practice on FT is assigning a default to participation in something and i simply do not remember anyone ever complaining about that. Oh well, the good news for us is that there have been many posting that they were reminded to vote because of the graphic image and that determines the success of the program. By getting out the vote, we build well beyond the concept that the Board only represents a much smaller group.

So oz, no conspiracies, just tell me one thing: would you rather this subtle reminder, or would you prefer my first idea, a pop-up reminder window each time you visited FT that would require you to click on before allowing you to post or read the forums?

What I find the most interesting? Even after posting of our sole goal of simply trying to get the vote out - do you find any posts from any members suggesting other ideas on how to do it? In my original vision of FlyerTalk, the first post about this would have been "Hey Randy, good effort to try and get the vote out. It got me thinking and here's a few other ideas i might suggest that could also help get the vote out ... "

Hope this answers your questions. And thanks for the interest in the topic.

nako

Speaking purely for myself, I don't think that the avatars themselves are inherently bad, just as I don't think that the "I Voted" sticker is a bad idea. Putting the avatar as a default for everyone who voted is tatamount to the pollworker forcing every voter to put that sticker on. In that respect, I stand by my opinion that the system as it stands, however well intentioned it is, was implemented poorly.

In my opinion, a better solution would be a statement at the end of voting that says, "Here's a way to encourage your fellow FTers to vote also" and gives a link and directions to changing your avatar to one of the "I Voted" designs. This way, voters are given the choice of whether they want to display the avatar, and are not automatically defaulted to something that they may not wish to display without being given any notification, and without being given any knowledge on how to remove it if they really don't want it.

At the very least, if you want to keep defaulting the avatar for members after they vote, please tell people how they can remove it up front.

Mike

ozstamps

Thanks Randy - the fact there is one (1) alternative choice of Avator from the default has become evident only after my first post on this thread.

For all anyone knew at that time, a new design might be rolled out by Admin each day, or at random, as no advice had been posted anywhere on this area.

Why have just one alternate at all remains my first question?

All is being made clear into the election. (Clear to those who read this thread anyway. )

That there is in fact 2 choices. A FT one and a jingoistic USA flag one.

And for those who know this, they can choose to turn either off. Or swap them over. Or fib and turn either on when they have not voted.

As I posted, Admin making some uniform obvious indication that folks have voted I have no issue with, and agree it will increase voter participation. That is good for TB and FT

I do however still suggest one common avator be used to achieve this end.

Your reference to chat is all very well, however IMHO it negates your point as a whole BUNCH of alternate and obvious avatar choices are on there to freely choose from.

Whenever I was on chat I deliberately chose the Ansett Australia logo - for years after it ceased flying in fact.

It is entirely your call how many avatars are up there for voters to select from. However if there is to be more than one (and I see no good reason why that would be needed) as a suggestion why not load the Chat gifs as choices if a fast fix is needed?

Then Canadians and Brits and Germans and Brazilians can add one of their choice.

And make FT look messy.

Less is more sometimes.

Glen

airbus320

Randy: Since I started this whole discussion in my home forum Air Canada/Aeroplan, let me make a few comments.

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6242

I recognize and applaud your initiative to publicize the election. I am all for voter participation and appeals to exercise one's democratic particiapation in the political arena...albeit even in the life of a bulletin board.

There may be cultural differences/perceptions in this matter.

Invasion of privacy in any shape or form is a serious matter for some folks, myself included. This is why I am reacting to this initiative. The fact that I have voted is not a matter of record for a public forum. It is a social act that is wrapped in the mantle of privacy.

However making the avatar as the default mode has the consequence of revealing the fact that a member has voted or the absence of the avatar could be interpreted that the member has perhaps not voted. Herein lies the rub.....as the great Shakespeare stated. It may seem to be an inconsequential matter but privacy is not a small matter for some of us.

Randy. My post count, done mostly in my home forum of AC/Aeroplan, testifies to my involvement in the daily life of FT. My initial post was one of concern for right to privacy and the defence of perceived measures that invade such a gift.

As for suggestions as to how to increase the visibility of the upcoming elections, may I postulate that this discussion has had the unintended consequence of raising the profile of this event.

Jailer

Randy, this is shameful. Threatening to send members who don’t vote to an abattoir is inhuman.

Jailer

Never mind. I just looked up avatar and accordingly it appears that there is no criminal conspiracy. No need to call Amnesty International.

GUWonder

I think the fuss about this system is much ado about nothing. This is more akin to people having ink placed on their finger or thumb as part of the voting process than being forced to wear a sticker. Just like with the ink on the finger -- where those at the poll stations normally just say it will wash off after a few days -- people who wish to can go through a few extra steps and the ink will come off faster than it otherwise already will.

Ocn Vw 1K

I'm posting solely as a member and solely to add some clarification to the arguments expressing concern that TalkBoard voters' privacy is invaded because in regular elections the identification of who votes is private.

Part of my community service activities are teaching precinct workers how to conduct elections in a large city in California. The California Elections Code (sec. 14202) requires prominent posting in the precinct of the index of registered voters and it is treated at least during the time that the polls are open as a public document. Another Code section (14297) requires precinct workers to note on the index of voters that a particular voter has cast a ballot. This public process is deemed very helpful to voters, their friends, neighbors and esp. partisan campaign workers who often have volunteers at the polls checking the index of voters to see who has not yet voted. Of course, voting procedures may differ from country to country and within regions, provinces or states , but I wanted to clarify that in a large U.S. state, "who votes" is by law, quite public.

GUWonder

When it comes to privacy, I'm generally up there in terms of privacy rights advocacy; but I don't see this as infringing upon privacy any more than something like ink on the finger being applied to an individual as part of the voting process.

That's not a bad idea.

chexfan

It could be seen as a representation of the Chilean, Puerto Rican or Liberian flag too...

GUWonder

Not good examples. All of the places you've mentioned above only have one star on their flag. The avatar with the flag has at least two stars showing in part.

chexfan

So you're saying there's a 2 Starred, 3 Striped American flag...?

Or better yet, that the stars on the US Flag are in order and even?

It's a purported representation of the American flag, when the same flag inconsistencies exist w/ other nations. One could logically say that it is a bad ripoff of the flag from Chile, Liberia or Puerto Rico.

But honestly, does it really matter?