Fawxer

Sure, that would make perfect sense (and be good business). But I'm less interested in credit issuance decisions per se than in the generality and specificity of this problem.

What I am primarily concerned with is the concern that: 1) churning is over (which is why I asked if anyone else had had this problem recently); or 2) I personally have been tagged as a problem churner (which is why I want to know if anyone has had this problem before).

Adding to my concern is the fact that it seems like the pros on this thread have the rules pretty much worked out, but I've never seen anyone post the one-year problem (unless I'm unable to use the search tread tool).

Happy

You still dont seem to get it. Citi does not want to extend more credit to you, which you said you are not concerned about credit issuance. Not extending further credit to you means no more Citi credit card from Citi, until Citi feels your account history with them warrants new credit again. Since you are not concerned, then why even bothered by this?

Perhaps the veterans dont have such issue because they know they cannot just simply flip over cards with an issuer but do not give the issuer any regular business?

This potential peril you now encountered, has been discussed at least once or twice on this thread, especially, by a poster name sdsearch.

macboss

Has anyone else been in the same situation? I have just started churning aa miles. I do not want to get the same email from Citi. I have had 3 cards so far and have not cancelled one. How long should I keep a card before canceling to avoid this situation? Thanks

ned

I think accounts may be flagged. Although I am able to open new accounts I am not offered incentives not to cancel accounts. The CSR seems to always make reference to my other accounts or my previously cancelled accounts. My wife is always offered incentives and no mention of her previous activities is ever made. I have had CSR make odd remarks when I cancel accounts, which I now always do online. It is little wonder that Citi is in the trouble they are!

sdsearch

Do you have any other cards with Citi?

It helps to have a (who cares what kind) no-annual-fee card with Citi that you hold onto "forever" (and use for something small every couple months to keep them from cancelling it for inactivity). It especially helps if the history on that card predates your recent churning activity by years.

Next best would be to take the first card you applied for and keep it for 11 months (ie, right before they charge you the first annual fee). Then take a card you get a few months later and also keep that one for 11 months. Cancel the others when you wish (it's possible to cancel soon after the bonus posts, and certainly one statement cycle later if you didn't have any further activity).

Fawxer

Obviously, they don't want to extend me more credit to me. I figured that out when they sent me an email. Your comments have shed no new light on this topic.

As I said, my oldest card (which I use frequently) is nearly a year old. I'm NOT just flipping cards without giving them regular business. Did you even read my original post?

To clarify, it is my view that churning will not last forever, given that churning has disappeared from most other banks, and that the banks right now are screwed. If I were to end churning, I would do so by upping the minimum time between applications (to, say, perhaps a year). I also figure Jan 1 would be a good time to implement a policy change. The major point of my original post was to see if this was just an issue with my account, or if a larger change in churning policy has been made.

Happy - If you're just going to be argumentative and don't have anything to contribute, there's really no reason for you to post.

Happy

You do not mention you spend regularly on your oldest (still less than a year old) card when I first read your post. All you said, and in subsequent posts, was, you do not know which card is the 11 months old card. Later you make a clarification about not knowing which card Citi wants you to have a one-year or beyond history.

Factual information is, what you experienced only applies to YOU due to your behaviors being viewed in the issuer's eyes. It could very well apply to others who have similar pattern with the issuer. But you refuse to believe this, and insist that it is an universal change that affects everyone.

The tightening has been going on for quite a while in various forms, it is not something implemented because of January 1, 2009 rolled in.

The reality is, It does NOT apply to others who approach the matter more tactfully. Since you do not like to hear the reason WHY, (and possibly learn something from it), that is too bad.

Please note, I make my assessment based on FACTs - on the part that what you experienced, do NOT happen to many others, even after January 1, 2009.

See the post right above yours, that sdsearch again explains how others have kept things going. Having a long and active history (spending regularly) with an issuer can only help things.

macboss

Unfortunately, No. I only hv 3 Citi AA cards (2 personals, 1 business). The first one is the Amex (my first Citi card) which is about 3 months old. My oldest card is with Chase (1.5 years old). My credit history is pretty new.

I heard that its possible to switch the AA card to a different program with no annual fee like the Citi Professional. I was planning to do this with my first AA amex card when the annual fee is due and keep the card forever to make Citi happy. Could someone confirm I can do this?

Also, I am planning to reallocate all the credit line of 2 cards to 1 card. Should I just keep lets say $200 credit line on the 2 cards?

Happy

You really want to take it easy in playing this game if your credit histry is pretty new. Many posters here who do it aggressively generally have a long credit history - in the lenders' eyes, such person would have been a better credit risk, for s/he has demonstrated being financially responsible for an extended period of time. It is just how things work in the Credit Industry.

Once you have a flawless history of over 10 years, especially being good with each issuer, you will then have a much larger levy in doing things.

You can ask to convert one of the AA card to a no annual fee card which also is a card that reports credit line to the reporting agency, so you can build some meaningful history. None of the AA cards, nor the AMEX card report credit limit.

Your goal is not to do things aggressively, especially in current environment when everything is under scrutiny. You goal is to build up a solid history with lender(s), for the future, when you may find yourself actually NEED some credit extended to you.

Fawxer

I did not state in the original post that I use the original card. But you immediately assumed that I went about this carelessly.

I did not say that I did not know which card was the oldest. I said that I didn't know which one they wanted to be a year old.

No, I ASKED if anyone had information about whether or not this was a change. I insisted nothing. Did you even read my posts before spitting back with condescending vitriol?

Um...the whole point of me posting was for others to learn from this. I don't generally post just so that I can fight on threads with some jerk who thinks I am an idiot.

It is interesting that you would recommend sdsearch's technique above, because his "second best thing" is exactly what I had been doing (and what I described in my original post). But apparently, that technique didn't work so well for me. Further, if you cancel a card after 11 months, then you haven't had the card for a year, so canceling to avoid the annual fee could put you in the same situation that I'm in.

For the record, my credit history is long, active, and has no potential negatives. The majority of my spending still occurs on my primary card (the oldest card, not the churned cards). My history with Citi is flawless - I always pay on time and carry small or no balances (yeah, so churning could be considered a flaw, but I had been going about "aggressively" for about 6 months).

To restate my original point, I followed most of the recommendations on this thread. While I am not surprised that Citi denied one application (If I were them, I would have shut down churning long ago), I am surprised that they told me to wait until the card was a year old. I would have though it more likely that they would bump me down to one card per 60 day category or something (maybe they still will).

CandymanJim

Sure is nice to sit on the sidelines for once.....

FWIW, just applied again after the last 65 days. My normal appoval of $20k was only $8k this time. It was instant though making it two times in a row now I have had teh instant approval.

Jim

Happy

Cool!

Citi has become stingy on credit lines. I discovered the line on my Prof was reduced from 25K to only 4K a week or so ago. Yesterday a letter arrived, said :

<<As a responsible lender, we continually review the credit limits offered to our cardmembers.
Because you are only using a small portion of your available Credit Line, we have adjusted your Credit Line on your Citi Professional Card to $4000 based on your spending history.
We made a commitment to provide you with the purchasing flexibility needed to get more out of every working day. We understand circumstances change and the credit line on your credit card may have exceeded your current expense management needs.
Providing you with the right credit line is a top priority for us. Adjusting your line to better fit your expense management needs is an important tool when it comes to credit card security.>>

See how sugar-coating Citi is, in this letter essentially telling me: We are cutting your credit line because we feel we give you too much?

FWIW, the Prof card is only used for restaurant dining when AMEX is not accepted. So the usage is like 1% or less. It is cancelled today after the 228 TYP posted yesterday.

As long as the AA's coming like clockwork, that is all I want.

technique

I want teh instant approval Never had it to date!! But I haven't applied in almost 2 months... I am buying a house in 1-2 months, and I'm thinking I should stop the churning until I get the mortgage approved, lol

beachfan

1) So you can apply for two on the same day and then wait 60+ days, but if you only apply for one on that day, you have to wait another 60+days for the second one?

2) Also, if I'm churning for my wife, then it seems like I make a mistake when I list her as a secondary account holder as it prevents me from applying twice in her name for the 20k miles (I get 2500 for the secondary account, I"m leaving 17.5k miles on the table).

3) It makes no difference whether one is personal and the other is business?

Do I have this right? Thanks in advance!

forextrader

Citi PERSONAL cards work on a 60 DAY cycle and Citi BUSINESS cards work on a 90 DAY cycle.

You can apply for 2 personal cards on the same day, but anecdotal evidence suggests this works for some and not for others.

Normally the month I apply for a business card and the month I apply for personal cards is different due to the different 60/90 day churn cycle.

However, January is the one time in the year when I am able to apply for personal and business in the same month - Usually I do this on different dates, but this time around I applied for EVERYTHING on the same date (Jan 2) - while I (and my wife) did not receive instant approval (we never do) - we received approval for ALL 6 CARDS (2 personal and 1 business for each of us).

What was interesting to note was that the credit lines on the personal cards were not big (only $3500 for each personal) the business card (where I state a rather small income) was given a credit limit of $12,000.

In a previous post someone did mention that they had more than one Citi business card for the same business - in the past when I have tried this I am denied - I first cancel my business card, wait a little bit, then apply for the new business card - never a problem doing it this way.

RE: Being turned down - I know you mentioned they said something about 1 year - unless you are concerned about number of inquiries on your credit report, I would wait 62 days say from the date of the rejection letter, and give it another try. OR - have you tried to call Citicards and ask for a reconsideration? Worst thing they say is NO - good luck