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Old Jan 14, 2019 | 12:48 pm
  #136  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
Yes, it's an explicit part of the job description.
So you’re saying that the TSA makes all its recruits aware that it’s an explicit part of the job? I doubt that the TSA is that effective.

I also haven’t seen a single TSA job description in prior years that has an explicit part of the job description saying that its applicants agree to work without timely pay in the event of a federal government shutdown. If you can show a pre-2017 shutdown TSA job description that makes this untimely pay explicit to recruits/applicants, I would like to see it because I’ve never seen it.
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Old Jan 14, 2019 | 12:54 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder


So you’re saying that the TSA makes all its recruits aware that it’s an explicit part of the job? I doubt that the TSA is that effective.

I also haven’t seen a single TSA job description in prior years that has an explicit part of the job description saying that its applicants agree to work without timely pay in the event of a federal government shutdown. If you can show a pre-2017 shutdown TSA job description that makes this untimely pay explicit to recruits/applicants, I would like to see it because I’ve never seen it.
LOL.
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Old Jan 14, 2019 | 1:07 pm
  #138  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
LOL.
Does LOL mean you haven’t seen a single TSA job description in prior years that has an explicit part of the job description saying that its applicants agree to work without timely pay in the event of a federal government shutdown?

If you can show a pre-2017 shutdown TSA job description that makes this untimely pay explicit to recruits/applicants, I would like to see it because I’ve never seen it.

Or does LOL mean you can’t show it because it’s never been in the TSA’s real job descriptions?
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Old Jan 14, 2019 | 1:17 pm
  #139  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder


Does LOL mean you haven’t seen a single TSA job description in prior years that has an explicit part of the job description saying that its applicants agree to work without timely pay in the event of a federal government shutdown?

If you can show a pre-2017 shutdown TSA job description that makes this untimely pay explicit to recruits/applicants, I would like to see it because I’ve never seen it.

Or does LOL mean you can’t show it because it’s never been in the TSA’s real job descriptions?
No, LOL means it's laughable that TSA agents don't know about shutdowns, etc., both via official channels and via their union. You sound hysterical, invoking "slavery and indentured servitude." Give us a break with that silliness.
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Old Jan 14, 2019 | 1:33 pm
  #140  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder


I hope for the opposite of punishment for such absentees. People being made to work without pay delivered on time is completely inappropriate in a world where slavery and indentured servitude are both considered abominations. If the TSA screeners doing this are military personnel and were doing screening as part of military duty, then that would be a different story — but fortunately TSA ain’t military nor even law enforcement in the main.
Why would it be ok for military to go unpaid if they did airport security screening?
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Old Jan 14, 2019 | 3:17 pm
  #141  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
No, LOL means it's laughable that TSA agents don't know about shutdowns, etc., both via official channels and via their union. You sound hysterical, invoking "slavery and indentured servitude." Give us a break with that silliness.
That is exactly the legal theory being advanced in the lawsuit asserting that the federal government may not require employees to work without pay.

So, hardly hysterical. Hardly laughable.

The union may not win in the end, but no judge is laughing.
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Old Jan 14, 2019 | 3:32 pm
  #142  
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Military is different than civilian, because it’s still not considered a general abomination to have mandatory military conscription, with or without pay, while civilian employment without timely pay is reminiscent of awful labor practices since generally considered an abomination, legally and otherwise.

Originally Posted by joe_miami
No, LOL means it's laughable that TSA agents don't know about shutdowns, etc., both via official channels and via their union. You sound hysterical, invoking "slavery and indentured servitude." Give us a break with that silliness.
People being made to work without pay delivered on time is completely inappropriate in a world where slavery and indentured servitude are both considered abominations. Nothing silly about it.

Your posts claimed that the TSA’s job descriptions explicitly included working without pay delivered on time. I asked for an example of such TSA job description because the ones I’ve seen never stated that.

If your post was accurate about the TSA job descriptions on this matter, then you’d either be able to provide such an example or I would likely have already seen such an example. But since neither has happened, it seems that your post’s claim about TSA’s job descriptions remains inaccurate.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 14, 2019 at 3:50 pm
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Old Jan 14, 2019 | 4:26 pm
  #143  
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"Slavery and indentured servitude." LOL. Utterly laughable.
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Old Jan 15, 2019 | 2:34 am
  #144  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
"Slavery and indentured servitude." LOL. Utterly laughable.
If you find that being made to work without pay delivered on time is not completely inappropriate ever since the idea of slavery and indentured servitude have been generally considered an abomination, then I am not surprised that it’s easy for some to laugh at a lot of dehumanizing things. Would you be laughing if you didn’t get paid on time for work you provided and it negatively hit your life hard?

I am no fan of the TSA, and I am very critical of the government’s dehumanizing ways aimed at travelers, but I don’t laugh at the idea of any civilians being treated in poor, antiquated ways by government. Even when it comes to those TSA employees who touch passengers’ “resistance” as part of the invasive TSA groping, hard as it may be to apply principles consistently.

Even TSA employees being made to work without pay delivered on time is completely inappropriate in a world where slavery and indentured servitude are both considered abominations. Otherwise why even pretend that their are meaningful fair labor standards. I am not sure about you, but I’m sure I don’t like to see the government exempt itself from having to abide by the same civilian employment rules civilian private sector employers have to follow to stay out of trouble. What’s good for the governmental goose should be good for the governmental gander.
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Old Jan 15, 2019 | 5:45 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder

If your post was accurate about the TSA job descriptions on this matter, then you’d either be able to provide such an example or I would likely have already seen such an example. But since neither has happened, it seems that your post’s claim about TSA’s job descriptions remains inaccurate.
The internet has names for people who make claims and don't follow up with proof/citations after being asked to do so.
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Old Jan 15, 2019 | 6:43 am
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As much as I despise TSA as an agency, and as much utter contempt as I have for the federal government in general, I do have some sympathy for the thousands of government workers caught in the middle of this childish staring contest being conducted by 535 of the worst human beings in our country - our beloved leaders.

I see a lot of comments online about how people living paycheck to paycheck are doing something wrong, financially irresponsible, etc. Well, sure, if you make $150k and live paycheck to paycheck, you're doing something wrong. But for a $40k TSO supporting a family, getting far enough ahead to absorb the loss of half a month's pay is, for all practical intents and purposes, impossible. And sure, go ahead and post an example, a dozen examples, even 50 examples, of people who are able to get ahead on $40k a year, but those are exceptions (and they're still doing something wrong, because if you have the drive, discipline, and sense to really get ahead on only $40k, you're in the wrong job and should be looking for something better).

Originally Posted by joe_miami
Sounds like they didn't "meet the requirements of their jobs" in the first place. People with money problems can't get security clearances. Why are broke people being entrusted with our airline security? It's a disaster waiting to happen.
I seriously doubt that rank-and-file TSOs have any sort of clearance. They most likely go through a background check similar to the one I had to undergo when working on a military base s few years ago, but actual clearance? Highly unlikely, since handling classified information is not part of their job descriptions. Some of the upper management types probably have clearance, and maybe some of the middle management types, but I doubt that anyone in the screening force below the level of AFSD has a clearance at most airports.

Originally Posted by joe_miami
Anyone who's one missed paycheck away from financial calamity already had money problems.
Living paycheck to paycheck doesn't qualify as having "money problems". I'd classify it more as "scraping by", but it doesn't become "money problems" until you've got obligations you can't meet - such as when your employer simply stops paying you what they owe you.

And even then, missing one paycheck doesn't necessarily mean "financial calamity". It means belt-tightening, prioritization, missed payments, and hardship, but it doesn't necessarily reach the level of calamity until you miss an entire month's pay rather than half a month's pay.

Originally Posted by joe_miami
This is a topic for a different thread, but this isn't 1950. We know there are people out there working on ways to blow up planes.
Sure, but we also know that TSA has never caught one of them, and in fact misses up to 95% of the weapons they're supposed to screen for, including in one instance five pounds of undisguised, unhidden C4 high explosive, still in its plainly-labeled government-issue wrapper.
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Old Jan 15, 2019 | 8:35 am
  #147  
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
The internet has names for people who make claims and don't follow up with proof/citations after being asked to do so.
LOL. The idea that thousands of TSA workers were unaware they were deemed essential personnel is absurd. Give us a break with this nonsense.

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I seriously doubt that rank-and-file TSOs have any sort of clearance. They most likely go through a background check similar to the one I had to undergo when working on a military base s few years ago, but actual clearance? Highly unlikely, since handling classified information is not part of their job descriptions. Some of the upper management types probably have clearance, and maybe some of the middle management types, but I doubt that anyone in the screening force below the level of AFSD has a clearance at most airports.
I never claimed they had security clearance, but a TSA worker looking the other way for $5,000 can do a lot more damage than a rank-and-file bureaucrat with a security clearance who leaks a few files.

Living paycheck to paycheck doesn't qualify as having "money problems". I'd classify it more as "scraping by", but it doesn't become "money problems" until you've got obligations you can't meet - such as when your employer simply stops paying you what they owe you.
If you don't have any savings or even a credit card that can get you by one missed or bounced paycheck, you have money problems. I can't believe people keep arguing otherwise.

Last edited by TWA884; Jan 15, 2019 at 9:03 am Reason: Going OMNI/PR
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Old Jan 15, 2019 | 9:26 am
  #148  
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I'm not sure what more can be said about this partial government shutdown and how it impacts some government employees including TSA.

In my younger days I was enlisted Navy, married and making just about $200 a month. We lived paycheck to paycheck. After rent and food little was left over for a rainy day. So I understand what some of the 800,000 impacted federal employees are dealing with.

Maybe its a matter of scale but why is it that we are only hearing about specific groups of government employees (TSA, ATC primarily) making a lot of noise? TSA only represents about 6.5% of the federal employees impacted and best I can tell all the other impacted agencies are going to work to do their duty.

The actions of these employees calling out sick in this matter seems more harmful to TSA's image than helpful and will, in my opinion, further erode the TSA nameplate. I recognize that TSA's employees are caught between a rock and a hard place but they still have an obligation to report for their assigned duties. If an employee cannot meet their other obligations the correct course would be to resign and move on.
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Old Jan 15, 2019 | 9:46 am
  #149  
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Very selective reporting and I suspect the union has a hand in it.

Supposedly the reason we're hearing about TSO's so afraid of missing a check that they are calling in sick before they have even missed a check - we are hearing about them and not the rest of the 800,000 government employees showing up even though their check is also delayed because TSOs aren't making big $$$.

1) I have seen zero evidence that TSOs, as a group, earn significantly less than the rest of the 800,000 employees currently working under a payroll delay.

2) I have seen zero evidence that the only TSOs calling in sick are the lowest paid people - no LTSOs or STSOs or higher are calling in sick.

3) People at all income levels can end up living paycheck to paycheck. TSOs just got something the rest of the 800,000 folks working without checks got - a questionably legal $500 bonus just for showing up for work. TSOs have even less excuse for calling in sick than the rest of the 800,000 unpaid folks.
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Old Jan 15, 2019 | 9:54 am
  #150  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
No, LOL means it's laughable that TSA agents don't know about shutdowns, etc., both via official channels and via their union. You sound hysterical, invoking "slavery and indentured servitude." Give us a break with that silliness.
I wish TSA would strike.

Maybe that will help resolve this completely ridiculous impasse.

I don't blame them for not showing up. They aren't getting paid.
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