Community
Wiki Posts
Search

TSA slowdown / sickout

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 24, 2019 | 9:37 pm
  #271  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
40 Countries Visited
60 Nights
5M
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 102,617
How about the day after SuperBowl when historic numbers of people are trying to leave ATL?
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Jan 24, 2019 | 9:47 pm
  #272  
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Originally Posted by mauve
Very true, but if I were an airline or airport executive, I’d want to be thinking about what to do if the shutdown continues indefinitely.
Might be as easy as activating the National Guard. Aren't those the folks we already see on patrol at Penn Station in New York City and at the Port Authority airports? Might entail a lot of hand searches and pat downs, but they'd surely get passengers moving if there were no TSA screeners. I wonder if some of them are already tasked to Super Bowl venues.
tom911 is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 2:16 am
  #273  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
Have we yet exceeded 12% nation-wide absentee rates for the TSA?

Originally Posted by tom911
Might be as easy as activating the National Guard. Aren't those the folks we already see on patrol at Penn Station in New York City and at the Port Authority airports? Might entail a lot of hand searches and pat downs, but they'd surely get passengers moving if there were no TSA screeners. I wonder if some of them are already tasked to Super Bowl venues.
I doubt that the average National Guard member using the baggage scanners would be anywhere close to being more effective at finding WEIs than the current TSA screeners using the machines. Using a WTMD and doing dog and pony show patdowns are easily replicated, but the effectiveness of scanner use is much more up in the air and varies based on training and experience. And then there is the whole issue of having to deal with the ridiculous ID w/boarding pass checks if the National Guard were to do this.

We really should get rid of the TSA as we know it and put this stuff in the hands of airports and airlines again and end the passenger ID checks.
Spiff likes this.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 3:46 am
  #274  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,430
Originally Posted by tom911
Might be as easy as activating the National Guard. Aren't those the folks we already see on patrol at Penn Station in New York City and at the Port Authority airports? Might entail a lot of hand searches and pat downs, but they'd surely get passengers moving if there were no TSA screeners. I wonder if some of them are already tasked to Super Bowl venues.
The idea of uniformed soldiers detaining and frisking thousands of people who just want to get on a plane to go home after a football game makes me shudder. Even after 9/11, when the NG was deployed to many airports to provide 'security', they didn't handle screening - they merely patrolled the terminals and tried to look tough (despite the pimples and the empty mags on their weapons).

This isn't a military dictatorship, it's a free society, and if our fear of the terr'ist boogie-man is so great that we're willing to let the armed forces (even the National Guard) handle something as inherently civilian as airport passenger screening, we're in far deeper trouble than having a dysfunctional government.

Originally Posted by GUWonder
Have we yet exceeded 12% nation-wide absentee rates for the TSA?

I doubt that the average National Guard member using the baggage scanners would be anywhere close to being more effective at finding WEIs than the current TSA screeners using the machines. Using a WTMD and doing dog and pony show patdowns are easily replicated, but the effectiveness of scanner use is much more up in the air and varies based on training and experience. And then there is the whole issue of having to deal with the ridiculous ID w/boarding pass checks if the National Guard were to do this.

We really should get rid of the TSA as we know it and put this stuff in the hands of airports and airlines again and end the passenger ID checks.
Despite my revulsion at the idea of letting soldiers do the screening, I cannot believe that they'd be any LESS effective than an agency which misses up to 95% of the WEI they're supposed to be looking for.
studentff likes this.
WillCAD is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 3:54 am
  #275  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
Originally Posted by WillCAD

Despite my revulsion at the idea of letting soldiers do the screening, I cannot believe that they'd be any LESS effective than an agency which misses up to 95% of the WEI they're supposed to be looking for.
They can be less effective. If I put a bunch of 7 years old to play TSA with the TSA luggage scanning machines, there would be a lot more variability in outcomes. While it wouldn't be as extreme with adult National Guard members as doing the same with a bunch of 7 year olds on the luggage scanning machines, I am pretty sure there would be even more extreme variability in outcomes with random National Guard members doing the screening than with even the current TSA crew.

Even if the National Guard members on average were at least as effective as TSA in WEI interdiction at civilian airports, the whole optics of further militarization of America for non-emergency purposes would be completely unwelcome by me. And I wouldn't find this kind of shutdown-driven 15% absentee rate of TSA screeners to be a national emergency requiring further militarization of American life in the civil sphere.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 8:15 am
  #276  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,986
Has it started:

FAA halts some arriving traffic into LaGuardia

Just a headline so far.
Correction: FAA halts some arriving traffic into LaGuardia Airport amid shortage of air traffic control workers

This story is developing. Please check back for updates.



edit to add:

The story has been updated with a few details.
petaluma1 and ginmqi like this.

Last edited by Boggie Dog; Jan 25, 2019 at 8:28 am
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 9:32 am
  #277  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Has it started:

FAA halts some arriving traffic into LaGuardia

Just a headline so far.


edit to add:

The story has been updated with a few details.
Hopefully it spreads nationwide.
petaluma1 is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 10:22 am
  #278  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,986
Drudge Headline: Shutdown Resolution Reached: Announcement at 1:00 P.M.

No additional details.

Announcement now delayed until 1:30.

Last edited by Boggie Dog; Jan 25, 2019 at 11:17 am
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 1:35 pm
  #279  
All eyes on you!
10 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MCI
Posts: 713
It's absolutely sad that it has to come to THIS level to get the govt to actually do something. We'll see.

And honestly people should've seen this coming from a mile away.

How many of us here can say we'll happily keep working a highly stressful job (eg, ATC) or a highly thankless job (TSA agents) without pay and we were required to show up anyway without knowing when our next paycheck will be?
84fiero likes this.
ginmqi is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 3:13 pm
  #280  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,430
Originally Posted by GUWonder
They can be less effective. If I put a bunch of 7 years old to play TSA with the TSA luggage scanning machines, there would be a lot more variability in outcomes. While it wouldn't be as extreme with adult National Guard members as doing the same with a bunch of 7 year olds on the luggage scanning machines, I am pretty sure there would be even more extreme variability in outcomes with random National Guard members doing the screening than with even the current TSA crew.

Even if the National Guard members on average were at least as effective as TSA in WEI interdiction at civilian airports, the whole optics of further militarization of America for non-emergency purposes would be completely unwelcome by me. And I wouldn't find this kind of shutdown-driven 15% absentee rate of TSA screeners to be a national emergency requiring further militarization of American life in the civil sphere.
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Has it started:

FAA halts some arriving traffic into LaGuardia

Just a headline so far.


edit to add:

The story has been updated with a few details.
Hm... don't the National Guard and the active military have hundreds of fully-qualified ATCs? I wouldn't be too sorry to see some of those folks called in to alleviate the difficulties in the towers, since they wouldn't be engaging in violations of travelers' civil rights or acting in any sort of security, law enforcement, or military capacity. I would see that situation as comparable to the NG engaging in rescue efforts after a natural disaster - they're out there not as warfighters or occupation/peacekeeping forces, but as rescuers and aid workers.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Drudge Headline: Shutdown Resolution Reached: Announcement at 1:00 P.M.

No additional details.

Announcement now delayed until 1:30.
Just a hiatus. In three weeks we're quite possibly going to be back to square one.

In the meantime, I imagine that once paychecks go out, at least some of the TSA sick-outs will return to work, but I think we'll also see a lot of breath-holding, and a lot of TSOs simply quitting and looking for other work.

I wonder whether the resignation rate will be higher among those who called out sick, or those who worked through without pay?
WillCAD is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2019 | 3:59 pm
  #281  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
Originally Posted by WillCAD
Hm... don't the National Guard and the active military have hundreds of fully-qualified ATCs? I wouldn't be too sorry to see some of those folks called in to alleviate the difficulties in the towers, since they wouldn't be engaging in violations of travelers' civil rights or acting in any sort of security, law enforcement, or military capacity. I would see that situation as comparable to the NG engaging in rescue efforts after a natural disaster - they're out there not as warfighters or occupation/peacekeeping forces, but as rescuers and aid workers.
That's what happened when Reagan fired the PATCO strikers in 1981. Many Air Force ATCs were already working in towers at joint USAF/commercial airports. (Petersen AFB/COS and Kirtland AFB/ABQ quickly come to mind). Approach and departure controls in areas where military flying bases and commercial airports were close together were often jointly staffed. Many of the E-4s and E-5s separated and took the many now-vacant civil service ATC positions for considerable pay raises. They also were able to keep their military time and count it towards civil service retirement. These USAF folks were just as highly-trained and experienced as their civilian counterparts.
Randyk47 likes this.
FliesWay2Much is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.