Electronic devices ban Europe to the US [merged threads]
May 11, 2017, 8:50 am
#196
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Has anyone at least semi-decent answers how this will work?
I will be making a trip on business (Japan-US-EU and back), and computer is essential for work.
Concern - We know that luggage can get stolen or directed to never-never land, while we are waiting at luggage belt grinding our teeth.
Concern - I am not sure whether this is still true today, but several years ago on the internet there was a video of a device deployed at a segregation station, which hit a bag with a torpedo like force on the side. My Mac would be DOA, no doubt about it, to be handled that way. This is, why I thought, we are taking those things with us to the cabin in the first pace.
Can anyone make sense out of this, and can suggest how to manage this situation?
I will be making a trip on business (Japan-US-EU and back), and computer is essential for work.
Concern - We know that luggage can get stolen or directed to never-never land, while we are waiting at luggage belt grinding our teeth.
Concern - I am not sure whether this is still true today, but several years ago on the internet there was a video of a device deployed at a segregation station, which hit a bag with a torpedo like force on the side. My Mac would be DOA, no doubt about it, to be handled that way. This is, why I thought, we are taking those things with us to the cabin in the first pace.
Can anyone make sense out of this, and can suggest how to manage this situation?
May 11, 2017, 8:56 am
#197
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
Programs: UA 1K, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Plat, Marriott Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 1,983
If this gets implemented on all flights from Europe to US, what TATL flight will we still have that are laptop and DSLR friendly? The ones I can think of:
All flights from TLV
Azeri from Baku
PIA from Lahore
Air India and US carriers from DEL and BOM
DL from DKR, ACC and LOS
Arik from LOS
SA and DL from JNB
TACV from RAI to PVD
ET from LFW to EWR
SonAir from LAD to IAH
Surely these airports have much better screening than the European airports, and the terrorists will never think of using them. We will be a lot safer.
All flights from TLV
Azeri from Baku
PIA from Lahore
Air India and US carriers from DEL and BOM
DL from DKR, ACC and LOS
Arik from LOS
SA and DL from JNB
TACV from RAI to PVD
ET from LFW to EWR
SonAir from LAD to IAH
Surely these airports have much better screening than the European airports, and the terrorists will never think of using them. We will be a lot safer.
May 11, 2017, 8:57 am
#198
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal (ONT), PVD/BOS, JAX, RSW
Programs: AA/US PlatPro & 1.05MM, DL Plat (challenge), UA dirt
Posts: 3,189
The ban as it stands right now, or even the EU ban, has little impact on the U.S. airline industry because everything is happening overseas. As others have stated, the real impacts and push-backs will occur if or when the ban is instituted on outgoing flights and domestic flights.
Having said this, I think the entrepreneurial spirit in the U.S. and like-minded countries will simply invent ways around the ban:
I came up with these ideas in about 5 minutes, and I'm not that good. Business travel cannot and will not stop or even noticeably decrease. Businesses and airlines will simply adapt. The TSA will adapt. When enough people in the right positions complained about draconian screening, the TSA invented ExtortionCheck and a lot of you climbed over each other to be the first in line and gladly pay the $85.
If enough people complain about a domestic laptop ban, the TSA will simply invent something else to placate the important people. For example, all they would have to do is to invent some sort of additional screening gadget only for ExtortionCheck participants. They wave the magic wand, declare your laptop to be wholesome and good, place a special sticker on it, and you're happy as a clam.
Having said this, I think the entrepreneurial spirit in the U.S. and like-minded countries will simply invent ways around the ban:
- Widespread use of loaner laptops. There will be kiosks at most major airports where you can rent one for your flight and drop it off at your destination.
- Insurance companies rushing to promote and sell theft policies
- Mailing services at airports, just like what exists now for pocket knives
- Tracking devices and a location service to find missing/stolen hardware
- Airlines themselves might even rent you a laptop for your flight -- free for premium passengers
I came up with these ideas in about 5 minutes, and I'm not that good. Business travel cannot and will not stop or even noticeably decrease. Businesses and airlines will simply adapt. The TSA will adapt. When enough people in the right positions complained about draconian screening, the TSA invented ExtortionCheck and a lot of you climbed over each other to be the first in line and gladly pay the $85.
If enough people complain about a domestic laptop ban, the TSA will simply invent something else to placate the important people. For example, all they would have to do is to invent some sort of additional screening gadget only for ExtortionCheck participants. They wave the magic wand, declare your laptop to be wholesome and good, place a special sticker on it, and you're happy as a clam.
I called my home insurance firm and added an "inland marine" policy that covers all of my electronics from cell phones to dive computers. They wanted serial numbers, model numbers, pictures of the devices and the sales receipts. And, it raised my premium by $150/year.
ETA: Insurance company was Amica Mutual.
Also, on another note, I got an email from a friend of mine who is currently on a long-term work assignment in the ME and she is concerned that when she comes back to the US, the security authorities may want her to disconnect her insulin pump, since it runs on a battery. I told her that I don't think they would do that....but, would DHS be idiotic enough to try it?
May 11, 2017, 8:59 am
#199
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
The ban as it stands right now, or even the EU ban, has little impact on the U.S. airline industry because everything is happening overseas. As others have stated, the real impacts and push-backs will occur if or when the ban is instituted on outgoing flights and domestic flights.
Having said this, I think the entrepreneurial spirit in the U.S. and like-minded countries will simply invent ways around the ban:
I came up with these ideas in about 5 minutes, and I'm not that good. Business travel cannot and will not stop or even noticeably decrease. Businesses and airlines will simply adapt. The TSA will adapt. When enough people in the right positions complained about draconian screening, the TSA invented ExtortionCheck and a lot of you climbed over each other to be the first in line and gladly pay the $85.
If enough people complain about a domestic laptop ban, the TSA will simply invent something else to placate the important people. For example, all they would have to do is to invent some sort of additional screening gadget only for ExtortionCheck participants. They wave the magic wand, declare your laptop to be wholesome and good, place a special sticker on it, and you're happy as a clam.
Having said this, I think the entrepreneurial spirit in the U.S. and like-minded countries will simply invent ways around the ban:
- Widespread use of loaner laptops. There will be kiosks at most major airports where you can rent one for your flight and drop it off at your destination.
- Insurance companies rushing to promote and sell theft policies
- Mailing services at airports, just like what exists now for pocket knives
- Tracking devices and a location service to find missing/stolen hardware
- Airlines themselves might even rent you a laptop for your flight -- free for premium passengers
I came up with these ideas in about 5 minutes, and I'm not that good. Business travel cannot and will not stop or even noticeably decrease. Businesses and airlines will simply adapt. The TSA will adapt. When enough people in the right positions complained about draconian screening, the TSA invented ExtortionCheck and a lot of you climbed over each other to be the first in line and gladly pay the $85.
If enough people complain about a domestic laptop ban, the TSA will simply invent something else to placate the important people. For example, all they would have to do is to invent some sort of additional screening gadget only for ExtortionCheck participants. They wave the magic wand, declare your laptop to be wholesome and good, place a special sticker on it, and you're happy as a clam.
As things stand currently, people surely are already postponing making travel plans or even planning to avoid travel. Part of the problem is the uncertainty. No one wants to learn that a ban will be instantly imposed the day before or day of departure. Moreover, many do not or cannot take the risk of having a laptop or other device overseas (no ban for the outbound flight) and facing a problem about returning with it to the USA [or vice versa].
May 11, 2017, 9:05 am
#200
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
Has anyone at least semi-decent answers how this will work?
I will be making a trip on business (Japan-US-EU and back), and computer is essential for work.
Concern - We know that luggage can get stolen or directed to never-never land, while we are waiting at luggage belt grinding our teeth.
Concern - I am not sure whether this is still true today, but several years ago on the internet there was a video of a device deployed at a segregation station, which hit a bag with a torpedo like force on the side. My Mac would be DOA, no doubt about it, to be handled that way. This is, why I thought, we are taking those things with us to the cabin in the first pace.
Can anyone make sense out of this, and can suggest how to manage this situation?
I will be making a trip on business (Japan-US-EU and back), and computer is essential for work.
Concern - We know that luggage can get stolen or directed to never-never land, while we are waiting at luggage belt grinding our teeth.
Concern - I am not sure whether this is still true today, but several years ago on the internet there was a video of a device deployed at a segregation station, which hit a bag with a torpedo like force on the side. My Mac would be DOA, no doubt about it, to be handled that way. This is, why I thought, we are taking those things with us to the cabin in the first pace.
Can anyone make sense out of this, and can suggest how to manage this situation?
May 11, 2017, 9:10 am
#201
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 825
As things stand currently, people surely are already postponing making travel plans or even planning to avoid travel. Part of the problem is the uncertainty. No one wants to learn that a ban will be instantly imposed the day before or day of departure. Moreover, many do not or cannot take the risk of having a laptop or other device overseas (no ban for the outbound flight) and facing a problem about returning with it to the USA [or vice versa].
Right now who would risk making firm international travel plans involving expensive electronics and return flights to the US if they can avoid doing so? This is going to hurt the airlines badly.
May 11, 2017, 9:13 am
#202
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,901
Having said this, I think the entrepreneurial spirit in the U.S. and like-minded countries will simply invent ways around the ban:
- Widespread use of loaner laptops. There will be kiosks at most major airports where you can rent one for your flight and drop it off at your destination.
- Insurance companies rushing to promote and sell theft policies
- Mailing services at airports, just like what exists now for pocket knives
- Tracking devices and a location service to find missing/stolen hardware
- Airlines themselves might even rent you a laptop for your flight -- free for premium passengers
While theft is horrible to thing about, the real issue for many is not the loss of the device (that can be replaced) but the time spent in doing so, the need to rebuild from backup files, the time without a critical work tool, etc.
The though of entrusting my laptop to the post office is even more frightening that checked baggage.
The first thing a thief will do is rip off the tracking device.
May 11, 2017, 9:13 am
#203
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,710
I agree I am also delaying any further travel plans until this shakes out some more. Got a trip to Italy in July which will likely now be impacted, a trip to Chile January which may or may not be and a partial trip (not fully booked yet( back from ME (which of course is impacted by the exiting ban but I made that reservation with the full knowledge of that). I was going to plan at least two more trips between now and the end of 2018 but I am putting those hold until things become clearer.
May 11, 2017, 9:14 am
#204
Join Date: May 2017
Location: ORD
Posts: 369
Also, on another note, I got an email from a friend of mine who is currently on a long-term work assignment in the ME and she is concerned that when she comes back to the US, the security authorities may want her to disconnect her insulin pump, since it runs on a battery. I told her that I don't think they would do that....but, would DHS be idiotic enough to try it?
May 11, 2017, 9:14 am
#205
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas City, MO
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 3,649
But I don't think that would work for domestic flights if the intent is really to extend it to every flight in the US down the road (I think speculation for now). Too much volume. Who is going to search all bags at the gate for electronics and package it up? If it was extended to domestic flights, electronics would probably get "filtered" at the TSA checkpoints, i.e., you have to check a bag. Do airlines and airports actually have the capacity for the increase in the number of checked bags? I am thinking agents and kiosks doing bag check, conveyor belts, X-ray machines, baggage transport to the plane, ....
May 11, 2017, 9:16 am
#206
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: DL: PM, Marriott: Gold, Hilton: Gold
Posts: 62
I've got a photography focused trip (into CDG and return from MUC) scheduled in less than 2 weeks with over $20K in camera gear plus my laptop, iPad etc.. Given the fact that no matter how I pack it, none of this gear will be insured by Delta or the Allianz travel policy I purchased I'm trying to figure out what my options will be. I'm pricing Pelican cases for the camera backpack and laptop and other electronics now but wow, they are expensive. It seems i can't add Inland Marine coverage for the gear to my homeowners and now scrambling for an alternative provider of that coverage before I go.
At this point, I'd just like them to make the announcement of whatever they are going to do. I'm not likely to like it but I need some time to adapt for it vs having to scramble while I'm in Europe trying to figure out how to deal with it.
At this point, I'd just like them to make the announcement of whatever they are going to do. I'm not likely to like it but I need some time to adapt for it vs having to scramble while I'm in Europe trying to figure out how to deal with it.
May 11, 2017, 9:17 am
#207
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,122
I would think at a minimum that DHS/TSA should have to produce evidence that supports the necessity of this type of ban/limitation.
Frankly I don't trust TSA to be honest in their dealings with the public. So show us why this extreme step is justified.
Frankly I don't trust TSA to be honest in their dealings with the public. So show us why this extreme step is justified.
May 11, 2017, 9:24 am
#209
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal (ONT), PVD/BOS, JAX, RSW
Programs: AA/US PlatPro & 1.05MM, DL Plat (challenge), UA dirt
Posts: 3,189
Well, I know that my PhD advisor did develop a highly reliable and relatively inexpensive chemical sensing technology, but his bid was rejected by DHS for "not meeting technical requirements." The funny thing is that later he found out that a competing firm was headed by an ex-DHS official, and conveniently won the bid. The funny thing was that the winning firm actually had the nerve to ask my advisor if he would be willing to "license" his technology to them.
May 11, 2017, 9:24 am
#210
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
Programs: UA 1K, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Plat, Marriott Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 1,983
TSA never explained why the war on water and shampoo was justified and got away with it. How is this different?