TSA wants to test your drink -- at the gate
Jul 5, 2012, 2:14 pm
#91
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Seems TSA's expecting a little heat over this, they've already made a blog entry defending the practice.
I posted a comment asking if we're required to comply with the test, and what are the consequences of refusing.
I posted a comment asking if we're required to comply with the test, and what are the consequences of refusing.
Jul 5, 2012, 2:16 pm
#92
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"You" or "I" carry little weight in dealing with TSA's inanities--but if the ultimate result of this TSA policy is that Starbucks (or another vendor) will lose money as people will stop buying drinks from them, that vendor may carry a little more clout, in getting this policy rescinded.
Jul 5, 2012, 2:18 pm
#93
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Hand over the drink, obviously (assuming you really are at the gate because you want to fly..
).
Hand it over, and as you do so, immediately stand up, gather your things and put some distance between you and the screener (just to be safe). Communicate. Make it clear that you are not happy that you just forked over $ to a vendor who sold you suspect goods. Make it clear that you intend to ask for a refund. Make it clear that you don't understand why the beverages sold in the sterile area are not screened at point of sale for the pax safety. Make it clear that you don't understand why you jump through hoops to enter the sterile area, but clearly the vendors and their wares are not screened. Ask if the testing is the result of particular intel or if it's just a new level of security implemented to cover up the fact that the vendors and their wares are a gaping security hole.
Above all, do not try to disguise your terror at being at risk of consuming a potentially harmful beverage (if it can damage a plane, think what it can do to your insides). Do not try to disguise your fright at realizing that the sterile area is anything but and that you are still highly at risk. Express your concern that there might be razor blades or other contraband in the paperback you just purchased at a sterile-side vendor.
Do not take the beverage back when they are through. If you are told to hold it, don't. For your own safety, place it on the floor and distance yourself, preferably hiding slightly behind another TSO in the immediate area. Make it clear that even after it has been 'tested' and deemed 'safe', you still don't trust the beverage, the testing, or the entire situation that puts a pax in the sterile area at risk from a vendor purchase. Make it clear that you are heading directly to the vendor for a refund - ask the TSO if he/she will accompany you.
Take it seriously. Very seriously. Out of an abundance of caution. Because you really do want to fly. Because they're doing this is a tacit admission that the other 21 layers of security aren't enough.
).Hand it over, and as you do so, immediately stand up, gather your things and put some distance between you and the screener (just to be safe). Communicate. Make it clear that you are not happy that you just forked over $ to a vendor who sold you suspect goods. Make it clear that you intend to ask for a refund. Make it clear that you don't understand why the beverages sold in the sterile area are not screened at point of sale for the pax safety. Make it clear that you don't understand why you jump through hoops to enter the sterile area, but clearly the vendors and their wares are not screened. Ask if the testing is the result of particular intel or if it's just a new level of security implemented to cover up the fact that the vendors and their wares are a gaping security hole.
Above all, do not try to disguise your terror at being at risk of consuming a potentially harmful beverage (if it can damage a plane, think what it can do to your insides). Do not try to disguise your fright at realizing that the sterile area is anything but and that you are still highly at risk. Express your concern that there might be razor blades or other contraband in the paperback you just purchased at a sterile-side vendor.
Do not take the beverage back when they are through. If you are told to hold it, don't. For your own safety, place it on the floor and distance yourself, preferably hiding slightly behind another TSO in the immediate area. Make it clear that even after it has been 'tested' and deemed 'safe', you still don't trust the beverage, the testing, or the entire situation that puts a pax in the sterile area at risk from a vendor purchase. Make it clear that you are heading directly to the vendor for a refund - ask the TSO if he/she will accompany you.
Take it seriously. Very seriously. Out of an abundance of caution. Because you really do want to fly. Because they're doing this is a tacit admission that the other 21 layers of security aren't enough.
Jul 5, 2012, 2:27 pm
#94
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Jul 5, 2012, 2:53 pm
#95
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Jul 5, 2012, 3:12 pm
#96
Join Date: Jun 2006
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My two cents on the blog post.
>> So other than possibly taking a few
>> moments of your time before boarding
>> your flight, it's business as usual.
If by "business as usual", you mean tactics with little grounding in scientific theory, I concur wholeheartedly.
Mr. Burns, do you ever stop and think about what you write, or are you like a parrot (with all due respect to those highly intelligent creatures) who merely mimics what he is told?
Now let's actually think for a bit ...
Suppose Mr. Terrorist did manage to smuggle his liquid explosives past your hawk-eyed screeners at the checkpoint. Why would he be holding the container at the gate, pretending to drink the "beverage"? It would be hidden away in his bags, of course.
Now since large liquid-filled drinking bottles are banned from the checkpoint, there are two possible sources for any beverage a passenger is drinking at the gate:
* The passenger has filled his empty bottle with water from the water fountain. A positive result from a test on such a drink would indicate some major issues with the municipal drinking supply, and an immediate call for all residents of the city to stop drinking tap water would inevitably need to be issued at once.
* A passenger has bought a drink from an airport vendor. These vendors -- Starbucks, Hudson News, etc. -- typically supply airports nationwide. A positive result from a test on such a beverage should necessarily lead to an immediate grounding of all the nation's planes, for it would indicate a plot involving a nationwide supplier of airport concessions.
That neither of these actions would come from a positive test result shows that these random tests are a sham.
They only benefit two classes of people: TSOs, for providing more work beyond staffing checkpoints; and vendors such as Smiths Detection, whose lobbyists have successfully convinced your bosses that without their equipment, planes would be falling daily from the skies.
I realize, Bob, that it is clear that you do not have the thinking capacity to understand any of this. Unfortunately, it is quite clear that no one at the TSA or DHS does either.
>> moments of your time before boarding
>> your flight, it's business as usual.
If by "business as usual", you mean tactics with little grounding in scientific theory, I concur wholeheartedly.
Mr. Burns, do you ever stop and think about what you write, or are you like a parrot (with all due respect to those highly intelligent creatures) who merely mimics what he is told?
Now let's actually think for a bit ...
Suppose Mr. Terrorist did manage to smuggle his liquid explosives past your hawk-eyed screeners at the checkpoint. Why would he be holding the container at the gate, pretending to drink the "beverage"? It would be hidden away in his bags, of course.
Now since large liquid-filled drinking bottles are banned from the checkpoint, there are two possible sources for any beverage a passenger is drinking at the gate:
* The passenger has filled his empty bottle with water from the water fountain. A positive result from a test on such a drink would indicate some major issues with the municipal drinking supply, and an immediate call for all residents of the city to stop drinking tap water would inevitably need to be issued at once.
* A passenger has bought a drink from an airport vendor. These vendors -- Starbucks, Hudson News, etc. -- typically supply airports nationwide. A positive result from a test on such a beverage should necessarily lead to an immediate grounding of all the nation's planes, for it would indicate a plot involving a nationwide supplier of airport concessions.
That neither of these actions would come from a positive test result shows that these random tests are a sham.
They only benefit two classes of people: TSOs, for providing more work beyond staffing checkpoints; and vendors such as Smiths Detection, whose lobbyists have successfully convinced your bosses that without their equipment, planes would be falling daily from the skies.
I realize, Bob, that it is clear that you do not have the thinking capacity to understand any of this. Unfortunately, it is quite clear that no one at the TSA or DHS does either.
Jul 5, 2012, 3:44 pm
#97
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I believe they are looking for a solution with a high content of H2O2. I suppose the theory is that if the content of H2O2 in the solution is high enough to use the synthesize explosives, the vapors will be sufficient to cause the strip to test positive. I could be way off, but that's my understanding of what this is about. I decline to defend the wisdom of the practice, however.
Jul 5, 2012, 5:26 pm
#98
Join Date: Feb 2011
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I believe they are looking for a solution with a high content of H2O2. I suppose the theory is that if the content of H2O2 in the solution is high enough to use the synthesize explosives, the vapors will be sufficient to cause the strip to test positive. I could be way off, but that's my understanding of what this is about. I decline to defend the wisdom of the practice, however.
Jul 5, 2012, 6:04 pm
#99
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Not to mention that higher concentrations of hydrogen peroxide are much more susceptible to light and heat, decomposing into water and oxygen at a faster rate than lower concentrations. Labs will refrigerate 30% hydrogen peroxide.
Jul 5, 2012, 6:44 pm
#100
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h2o2 sounds like what they are catching, the only other possible hazardous liquid you can get past is contact solution, but that will just give you raging diarrhea. Could be good for a distraction when they wonder why someone has been in the bathroom for 30min.
Jul 5, 2012, 9:06 pm
#102
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 593
In most likelihood they are not dangerous... or effective.
The problem, as with all things TSA, is that we don't KNOW they aren't hazardous. The TSA refuses to allow the public to know any of the TSA standards, policies or procedures.
The problem, as with all things TSA, is that we don't KNOW they aren't hazardous. The TSA refuses to allow the public to know any of the TSA standards, policies or procedures.
Jul 5, 2012, 9:48 pm
#103
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My bet would be an "astrolite" type of explosive of ammonium nitrate and hydrazine. Hydrazine is extremely toxic even in small quantities. I recall from my hazmat experience that if you can smell it, the concentration has exceeded fatal levels. Nasty stuff to be carrying in public and a terror hazard in itself.
Jul 5, 2012, 10:17 pm
#104
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I'm certain that this is supposed to be explosives testing. But, according to those with more chemistry knowledge than me, there is no chemical test for explosives or the chemicals that make up explosives, which doesn't require the test articles to come into physical contact with the tested material. In other words, the Magic Strips (TM) they're currently waving over beverages to "test" are absolutely useless for that purpose.
Last edited by RedSnapper; Jul 5, 2012 at 10:18 pm Reason: spelling error
Jul 6, 2012, 1:37 am
#105
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"Officer, I have have half a liter* hydric acid dissolved in dihydrogene-monoxide in this container. Am I allowed to take it on board?"
*doubly suspicious - using the metric system!
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
*doubly suspicious - using the metric system!
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html