Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Oct 23, 2010, 9:55 am
#436
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
I have noticed this, as well. I wonder if it's part of the "boiling frog" theory where people get used to seeing it, then when asked to go through it figure it's no big deal.
Which I also noticed with the puffers. I am hopeful, but not certain, that similar technical difficulties are already starting to creep up.
But how? My phone is always out of my reach in these situations - on the x-ray belt. Which is, I believe, a whole other intended layer of citizen submit security kabuki. You see, the good little obedient sheeple go through the WBI, the good little obedient sheeple take off their shoes, the good little obedient sheeple removed their Kippies. If you are without your shoes, without your belongings, you are at a perceived psychological disadvantage, and the TSA set designers know this. It's a design to put people on edge, uncomfortable, and compliant.
All it takes is one truly dangerous person to figure this whole system out, and then we're at Code Red, forever. All a bomber would have to do is comply. Remove shoes, go through the WBI, and be a submissive compliant. It has already been proven that bombs and truly dangerous amounts of explosive powders go unseen and unquestioned by screeners while dangerous bottles of water are removed. Unlike opt outers who assert their rights, these bags go through a cursory scan and then onto the plane.
Which I also noticed with the puffers. I am hopeful, but not certain, that similar technical difficulties are already starting to creep up.
But how? My phone is always out of my reach in these situations - on the x-ray belt. Which is, I believe, a whole other intended layer of citizen submit security kabuki. You see, the good little obedient sheeple go through the WBI, the good little obedient sheeple take off their shoes, the good little obedient sheeple removed their Kippies. If you are without your shoes, without your belongings, you are at a perceived psychological disadvantage, and the TSA set designers know this. It's a design to put people on edge, uncomfortable, and compliant.
All it takes is one truly dangerous person to figure this whole system out, and then we're at Code Red, forever. All a bomber would have to do is comply. Remove shoes, go through the WBI, and be a submissive compliant. It has already been proven that bombs and truly dangerous amounts of explosive powders go unseen and unquestioned by screeners while dangerous bottles of water are removed. Unlike opt outers who assert their rights, these bags go through a cursory scan and then onto the plane.
Passengers need to go on offense when it comes to calling LEOs.
Oct 23, 2010, 1:03 pm
#437
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 132
All it takes is one truly dangerous person to figure this whole system out, and then we're at Code Red, forever. All a bomber would have to do is comply. Remove shoes, go through the WBI, and be a submissive compliant. It has already been proven that bombs and truly dangerous amounts of explosive powders go unseen and unquestioned by screeners while dangerous bottles of water are removed. Unlike opt outers who assert their rights, these bags go through a cursory scan and then onto the plane.
Oct 23, 2010, 1:41 pm
#438
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California. USA
Posts: 1,404
You demand that the TSA get a LEO immediately - no need to use a phone. They are in the airport already. Refuse to take one step away until the LEO appears and you have explained to him/her that you want to keep your property in your sight and the TSA is refusing to allow you to do so.
Passengers need to go on offense when it comes to calling LEOs.
Passengers need to go on offense when it comes to calling LEOs.
Or a deaf person.
Oct 23, 2010, 5:13 pm
#439
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: RDU
Programs: Status Free
Posts: 214
RDU Terminal 2, Sat, 10/23, 3:45
First time I've flown out of this terminal since May. The security area has been completely revamped, probably in preparation for the opening of the second half of the terminal in Jan.
There are now 4 lanes, each with 2 xray lines (3 passenger lanes, 1 crew lane). Between each lane's xray lines are a WTMD and a NoS, sitting side by side. Not an expert, but I think they are MMW. They are predomininately glass.
I was the only person going through, the terminal was pretty empty. I did see some signage near the NoS, but it was very small and mounted on the top of the stanchions at waist level. I would estimate the size as 8x5. Smaller than a sheet of paper. I could see one had images (front and back) the other had writing too small to read while walking.
There were 4 or 5 clerks working the lane I was in. As I was putting my items on the xray table/rollers, one approached me and asked if I had anything in my pockets. I said I had no pockets. got a smile and a laugh. I took a step toward the WTMD and the same clerk said "over here" and directed me to the NoS. I said "I opt out".
He turned behind him and asked for a female screener, he had a refusal.
I then walked through the WTMD. No alarm. The clerk on the secure side of the WTMD directed me to stand there until the patdown person came. I had full view of my items. Might have been more inconvenient on a busy day, but I was holding no one up.
The patdown clerk was there in less than a minute. She told me not to touch my belongings. She asked me what items were mine (another person had come through during this period). I pointed out the 2 bins and the 2 bags. Because there was no one else being xrayed, the xray clerk helped her carry my items to a table.
The patdown clerk explained every step of the patdown. it was mostly front of hand with a very light touch on my arms, back and legs. Also light touch om my buttocks, but I couldn't see front or back of hands. She did tell me prior, but I forgot what she said.
I am, to quote Maa Ramotswe of the First Ladies Detective Agency, a woman of traditional build
No lifting of the breasts. She patted down the top of my chest, then made a curves sweep with the side of her hands about 2 inches below my breasts. No lifting. No checking under my fat. No checking of the waistband. No feeling up in the groin.
The clerk was professional through out. Entire procedure took about 5 min. I was very early and, as stated previously, the checkpoint was virtually deserted.
May well be different around the holidays. For example, she would probably not have help carrying my things to the patdown area. She was a petite woman, my suitcase alone would have crushed her!
There are now 4 lanes, each with 2 xray lines (3 passenger lanes, 1 crew lane). Between each lane's xray lines are a WTMD and a NoS, sitting side by side. Not an expert, but I think they are MMW. They are predomininately glass.
I was the only person going through, the terminal was pretty empty. I did see some signage near the NoS, but it was very small and mounted on the top of the stanchions at waist level. I would estimate the size as 8x5. Smaller than a sheet of paper. I could see one had images (front and back) the other had writing too small to read while walking.
There were 4 or 5 clerks working the lane I was in. As I was putting my items on the xray table/rollers, one approached me and asked if I had anything in my pockets. I said I had no pockets. got a smile and a laugh. I took a step toward the WTMD and the same clerk said "over here" and directed me to the NoS. I said "I opt out".
He turned behind him and asked for a female screener, he had a refusal.
I then walked through the WTMD. No alarm. The clerk on the secure side of the WTMD directed me to stand there until the patdown person came. I had full view of my items. Might have been more inconvenient on a busy day, but I was holding no one up.
The patdown clerk was there in less than a minute. She told me not to touch my belongings. She asked me what items were mine (another person had come through during this period). I pointed out the 2 bins and the 2 bags. Because there was no one else being xrayed, the xray clerk helped her carry my items to a table.
The patdown clerk explained every step of the patdown. it was mostly front of hand with a very light touch on my arms, back and legs. Also light touch om my buttocks, but I couldn't see front or back of hands. She did tell me prior, but I forgot what she said.
I am, to quote Maa Ramotswe of the First Ladies Detective Agency, a woman of traditional build
No lifting of the breasts. She patted down the top of my chest, then made a curves sweep with the side of her hands about 2 inches below my breasts. No lifting. No checking under my fat. No checking of the waistband. No feeling up in the groin.The clerk was professional through out. Entire procedure took about 5 min. I was very early and, as stated previously, the checkpoint was virtually deserted.
May well be different around the holidays. For example, she would probably not have help carrying my things to the patdown area. She was a petite woman, my suitcase alone would have crushed her!
Oct 24, 2010, 11:58 am
#440
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8
Quick tip: when a TSO barks, "Take everything out of your pockets!"...hang on to your wallet since you're going to opt-out anyway. It doesn't trigger the WTMD, and it stays where it should--in my pocket, not 50 feet away, unsecured, at the end of an X-ray belt. Prior to the pat-pat, inform TSO of the wallet. No one's ever complained...nor should they.
Oct 24, 2010, 12:41 pm
#441
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FLL - Nice and Warm
Programs: TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 1,025
I'm glad to see that you discovered what many of us here know. The Nude-O-Scopes are pretty ineffective. Being dependent on low level reviewers (a WORLD away from radiologists), we get lots of false positives, and probably an equal or larger number of false negatives.
How can they distinguish a Depends or menstrual pad from a form fitting powder bomb? They let them pass, that's how. We have a lot of other important issues about Nude-O-Scopes as well. You can read some of the other threads here. Important info for you at http://DontScan.me if you haven't read it yet.
Given a historical probability of explosives being carried is about 1 on 10 BILLION (twice in 10 years - None in the US), and their known score for missing things intentionally planted for tests, this is an extreme exercise in FUTILITY, that only our government could conduct.
Statistically, they are not going to stop the next terrorist attack, no matter how much money they throw at it.
I know the politicians are tacitly in favor of this madness, but how can our scientists and advisers allow this level of fear mongering, stupidity, wasteful spending, privacy intrusion in our (broke) government? It will settle in the Courts, the sooner the better!
Oct 24, 2010, 2:57 pm
#442
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: WAS
Programs: US G, AA G, HHonors Silver
Posts: 115
Flying from YHZ and was randomly selected for WBI - as others have reported, they did ask if you wanted to opt out, but from their reaction most accepted.
Interesting thing was that if you opted out, no one else was allowed to go through the WTMD during the pat down or testing on my carry-on (belt for carry-ons stopped, too). Not sure if this was to protect belongings (I could see them the whole time), but very infefficient (especially when my father opted out 3 people behind me).
Interesting thing was that if you opted out, no one else was allowed to go through the WTMD during the pat down or testing on my carry-on (belt for carry-ons stopped, too). Not sure if this was to protect belongings (I could see them the whole time), but very infefficient (especially when my father opted out 3 people behind me).
Last edited by NoVaRS; Oct 24, 2010 at 2:57 pm Reason: typo
Oct 24, 2010, 3:03 pm
#443
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
Thank you for the RDU report. I will be flying out of there on business in a couple of weeks and want to know what to expect.
Fortunately, the rest of my flights over the next 8 weeks are out of Terminal 1 at RDU (Contintental FTL) and I won't have to worry about NoS in that terminal.
Fortunately, the rest of my flights over the next 8 weeks are out of Terminal 1 at RDU (Contintental FTL) and I won't have to worry about NoS in that terminal.
Oct 24, 2010, 5:24 pm
#444
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 516
Delta Gates DCA
Flew F on Delta this week out of DCA. The F security line and the rightmost standard line dump into a security area that only has a NoS and a WTMD. When I went through, everyone was directed to the NoS unless the NoS was occupied, in which case the WTMD was used for screening.
Knowing that I was either going to opt out or do the WTMD, I kept my wallet and some other things in my pockets. When my turn came, the NoS was empty, I was directed to the NoS, and I opted out. I waited at a metal gate to the left of the NoS until the smurfs could find someone willing to do a grope.
The smurf who lost out and had to do the grope was a kid who wasn't more than 20. He politely asked if I had every had a "pat down" before, and I said I hadn't. At that point he said that he was going to touch my clothes, which he did very lightly. His grope didn't involve the crotch at all.
After the gloves were tested, I was on my way.
Evidently the grope isn't standardized across TSAland.....
Knowing that I was either going to opt out or do the WTMD, I kept my wallet and some other things in my pockets. When my turn came, the NoS was empty, I was directed to the NoS, and I opted out. I waited at a metal gate to the left of the NoS until the smurfs could find someone willing to do a grope.
The smurf who lost out and had to do the grope was a kid who wasn't more than 20. He politely asked if I had every had a "pat down" before, and I said I hadn't. At that point he said that he was going to touch my clothes, which he did very lightly. His grope didn't involve the crotch at all.
After the gloves were tested, I was on my way.
Evidently the grope isn't standardized across TSAland.....
Oct 24, 2010, 5:38 pm
#445
Join Date: Dec 2005
Programs: UA, AA, VS, SQ, AS
Posts: 190
Oct 24, 2010, 5:49 pm
#448
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Between EWR & PHL
Programs: UA MileagePlus dirt (former hard-way Silver); AS Mileage Plan MVP; Hilton Honors Silver
Posts: 1,586
Oct 24, 2010, 8:24 pm
#449
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: Amtrak S+, HH GLD, AA 1MM, SPG, UA, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 371
Flew F on Delta this week out of DCA. The F security line and the rightmost standard line dump into a security area that only has a NoS and a WTMD. When I went through, everyone was directed to the NoS unless the NoS was occupied, in which case the WTMD was used for screening...
P.S. Can one stick to the leftmost lines to avoid the NoS entirely, or are there others dotting this checkpoint?