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-   -   SOP discussion (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1024410-sop-discussion.html)

DeaconFlyer Dec 17, 2009 11:27 am


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13005767)
I can't wait two months, I wanted to have the transcripts so I could quote accurately. If anyone finds the transcript please holler at me.

You have a PM

Trollkiller Dec 17, 2009 11:30 am


Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer (Post 13006637)
You have a PM

Thanks, I have replied.

sbm12 Dec 17, 2009 3:02 pm

I've managed to get in touch with Congresswoman Jackson-Lee's office and offered up my professional services to explain what actually happened since it is clear that they don't understand things. The drum beats on...

AngryMiller Dec 17, 2009 3:35 pm


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 13008118)
I've managed to get in touch with Congresswoman Jackson-Lee's office and offered up my professional services to explain what actually happened since it is clear that they don't understand things. The drum beats on...

So there is more than a little truth to the comment that TSA is an out of control, answerable to no one agency. It is only SSI, not confidential, not secret, not top secret, and not above top secret compartmentalized. Congress had better rein in the monster they created.

:td::td::td::td::td:

willpolice4food Dec 17, 2009 4:10 pm

Federation of American Scientists: TSA Cannot Order Sites to Take Down Sensitive Manu
 

Ms. Rossides added that in order to prevent further inadvertent disclosures of the newest security measures, she was refusing to provide a hardcopy of the latest edition of the TSA security manual to Congress. “I just wanted to take the absolute measures to protect that information, and that’s why a hardcopy wouldn’t be presented,” she said.

Rep. Dent objected to this. “By refusing to give a document to this committee because of concern about a public disclosure, that’s implying that this subcommittee would disclose the document. And that’s what, I guess, troubles me the most.” He said he would press the issue.
http://bit.ly/7jFoZr

amejr999 Dec 17, 2009 4:49 pm


Originally Posted by willpolice4food (Post 13008547)

AKA, Rossides thinks the Committee might leak it but isn't willing to say that to their face.

Flaflyer Dec 17, 2009 4:57 pm

Another Al Rodenta Tewwowist Cell found in Florida
 

Originally Posted by willpolice4food (Post 13008547)

"“What action does TSA intend to take against those who are reposting this sensitive document that should not be in the public domain?” Rep. Dent persisted.

“Well, right now, there really isn’t any authoritative action we can take,” Ms. Rossides said. “Honestly, persons that have posted it, I would, you know, hope that out of their patriotic sense of duty to, you know, their fellow countrymen, they would take it down. But honestly, I have no authority to direct them and order them to take it down.”

OMG, ABC News is hosting the SSI marked edition of the SOP unredacted. :eek:

ABC that's DISNEY! Publicly flaunting TSA, deep pockets, lots of lawyers but what of their patriotic sense of duty?

Think of the children in Orlando who will be scarred for life when they see Mickey Mouse hauled off in handcuffs as an Anti-American Tewwowist! :rolleyes:

AngryMiller Dec 17, 2009 5:04 pm


Originally Posted by Flaflyer (Post 13008894)
"“What action does TSA intend to take against those who are reposting this sensitive document that should not be in the public domain?” Rep. Dent persisted.

“Well, right now, there really isn’t any authoritative action we can take,” Ms. Rossides said. “Honestly, persons that have posted it, I would, you know, hope that out of their patriotic sense of duty to, you know, their fellow countrymen, they would take it down. But honestly, I have no authority to direct them and order them to take it down.”

OMG, ABC News is hosting the SSI marked edition of the SOP unredacted. :eek:

ABC that's DISNEY! Publicly flaunting TSA, deep pockets, lots of lawyers but what of their patriotic sense of duty?

Think of the children in Orlando who will be scarred for life when they see Mickey Mouse hauled off in handcuffs as an Anti-American Tewwowist! :rolleyes:

Funny, but when I've seen the NYT publish highly classified documents, that these same people aren't out there questioning the patriotism of the NYT staffers.

RadioGirl Dec 17, 2009 5:40 pm


Originally Posted by bocastephen (Post 13005793)
Rep. Jackson - I'm not sure if there is a term I can write here to describe her without Randy giving me a RV vacation - so I'll just let this sentence stand on its own. I wonder if you could hear the laughter all the way from Adobe HQ in San Jose after her anti-redaction tool comment. I really think there should be an IQ, history and civics test for every politician, and anyone who fails or has an IQ under the US national average (which isn't saying much) is forced to resign.

Of all the discouraging aspects of the video, this was the worst. There didn't seem to be one person involved that had ever used Adobe to create a pdf or had figured out ctrl-c, ctrl-v to edit documents. The overwhelming impression I had was people saying "it was all due to a, whatyamacallit, computer blogging software hacking thingie". I had a boss in the early 90s who used to open his email program, send all the messages to the printer in the next room, then ring his secretary to bring them in so he could read them; it looks that the leaders of the USA are still in that era!

How can they possibly hope to understand the image analysis issues of x-rays and nude-o-scopes, the forgery possibilities of IDs and barcodes, the possibility of mixing two 3.3 oz bottles of magic liquid A and two 3.3 oz bottles of magic liquid B, etc, if they are this technologically incompetent? (Which answers itself, really, in that they don't understand any of those things.)

A sad state of affairs, truly. :(

N965VJ Dec 17, 2009 5:44 pm

I like the links in that ABC News has in the center of every story they publish on this: :D



http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...gt39dhe634.jpg

Poor Gale looks like she could use some Rolaids. :eek:

sbm12 Dec 17, 2009 5:53 pm


Originally Posted by RadioGirl (Post 13009122)
Of all the discouraging aspects of the video, this was the worst. There didn't seem to be one person involved that had ever used Adobe to create a pdf or had figured out ctrl-c, ctrl-v to edit documents. The overwhelming impression I had was people saying "it was all due to a, whatyamacallit, computer blogging software hacking thingie". I had a boss in the early 90s who used to open his email program, send all the messages to the printer in the next room, then ring his secretary to bring them in so he could read them; it looks that the leaders of the USA are still in that era!

How can they possibly hope to understand the image analysis issues of x-rays and nude-o-scopes, the forgery possibilities of IDs and barcodes, the possibility of mixing two 3.3 oz bottles of magic liquid A and two 3.3 oz bottles of magic liquid B, etc, if they are this technologically incompetent? (Which answers itself, really, in that they don't understand any of those things.)

A sad state of affairs, truly. :(

I've had this conversation with a number of reporters in addition to the staffer from the Congresswoman's office. I made it very clear to the Congressfolk that I wanted to help educate them so that the process could move in a productive direction. One of the reporters I talked to didn't really understand what the big deal was initially. She explained that she printed the document out and it seemed fine. :eek:

If they want to call me a hacker I suppose that is vaguely accurate if using the same definition that ITA Hacker has in their sig since I play on computers all day and "hack" at stuff.

Educating the world is a slow, laborious, painful process. But if we don't do it, who will?

sbm12 Dec 17, 2009 5:56 pm


Originally Posted by amejr999 (Post 13008832)
AKA, Rossides thinks the Committee might leak it but isn't willing to say that to their face.

Actually, she pretty much did say that to their face. I chuckled a bit in that part of the hearing as she was pressed.

RadioGirl Dec 17, 2009 6:28 pm


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 13009222)
Educating the world is a slow, laborious, painful process. But if we don't do it, who will?

I know. But there's a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, on the other hand, is refusing to learn what you need to know.

Unfortunately, the attitude that came across in the hearing as well as much of the media coverage was "it computers and it's complicated and I can't be bothered with the detail", rather than "I better find out how this works so I can make better decisions." (This is not unique, of course, to this story, to Congress or to the media. Upper level management of large companies often take the same attitude. :()

I'm glad, truly, that you're taking the initiative to help people understand this. I hope you can really get through to the Congressfolk directly, and that they will take the time to really listen.

marklyon Dec 17, 2009 6:51 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13005767)
I can't wait two months, I wanted to have the transcripts so I could quote accurately. If anyone finds the transcript please holler at me.

CSPAN will sell you a capture of the CC feed for a nominal fee.

Trollkiller Dec 17, 2009 7:12 pm


Originally Posted by RadioGirl (Post 13009122)
How can they possibly hope to understand the image analysis issues of x-rays and nude-o-scopes, the forgery possibilities of IDs and barcodes, the possibility of mixing two 3.3 oz bottles of magic liquid A and two 3.3 oz bottles of magic liquid B, etc, if they are this technologically incompetent? (Which answers itself, really, in that they don't understand any of those things.)

To them it is just magic.


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