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Chase survey regarding possible changes when combining points.

Chase survey regarding possible changes when combining points.

Old Jul 16, 17, 2:10 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
Reserve is not yet a year old. There have been no renewals.
Maybe not, but I bet there have already been cancellations with the one year anniversary coming up
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Old Jul 16, 17, 2:21 pm
  #17  
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The moment I read about this I IMMEDIATELY moved all my points from the Freedom to the CSP. I ain't procrastinating. I will do this monthly from now on.
I also predict that Chase will lose a lot of customers to AMEX if this trial balloon is actually implemented.
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Old Jul 16, 17, 3:00 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
What is astonishing is, the CSR is not even a year old and we have seen 50% bonus cut, now the potential devaluation while not to CSR per se but to the whole UR ecosystem.
1. Issuers are not obligated to provide an opening bonus. Beside - the offer is never guaranteed to last.

2. I will not say it is a devaluation, but instead creating a sub-system within the UR.

Originally Posted by Happy View Post
Citi did not devalue Prestige until 3 years after its revamping of the TYP program, and it gave a full year before the devaluation happened.
Then should we celebrate?

Originally Posted by BOSTravels View Post
I also predict that Chase will lose a lot of customers to AMEX if this trial balloon is actually implemented.
Not really.

The proposed change, if implemented, focuses on non-AF UR cards like Freedom or FU. It does not necessarily affect AF UR cards like CSP or CSR.

Also - unlike Citi, which has reduced bonus categories reward earning for similar cards to almost non-existence, Freedom and FU are still earning as advertised (for now).

This changes will definitely slow down the number of new issuance. But it is not enough to trigger an escape.

Don't forget - as a matter of fact, Citi is the one losing, not Chase.
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Old Jul 16, 17, 3:04 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
However AMEX still wins in the depts of customer service primarily in how to handling claims of all covered benefits. - purchase protection, trip interruption, Med Evac which does not even need to use the AMEX Plat card to pay the initial travel, rental car coverage, and just the general disputes - far better than how Chase handles it as Chase outsources the functions completely while AMEX keeps at least the administration in house afaik last time we used such benefits.
Heck, AMEX customer service for even their 'starter cards' is still really excellent. Used a bog standard AMEX Blue card for many years as my preferred travel credit card because I knew they'd be most likely to be on my side if there were any problems.

For us, it's a reason they're keeper cards rather than churn and burn.
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Old Jul 16, 17, 3:50 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
Not really.

The proposed change, if implemented, focuses on non-AF UR cards like Freedom or FU. It does not necessarily affect AF UR cards like CSP or CSR.
If FU loses the ability to transfer to CSR/CSP and therefore loses transfer to e.g. airlines, AMEX EveryDay will be superior to FU.
In fact, if FU becomes a simpleton 1.5% cash back card you might as well get a simpleton 2% cash back card from e.g. Citi or Cap1.
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Old Jul 16, 17, 4:19 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by BOSTravels View Post
If FU loses the ability to transfer to CSR/CSP and therefore loses transfer to e.g. airlines, AMEX EveryDay will be superior to FU.
In fact, if FU becomes a simpleton 1.5% cash back card you might as well get a simpleton 2% cash back card from e.g. Citi or Cap1.
I've been debating for months whether to use the FU or the Cap One Spark Cash card (2%) for the miscellaneous purchases in places that don't accept AMEX. These proposed changes have made the decision much easier for me now. If Freedom and Ink become straight up 5% cards, they will still be useful, but the decision to keep an annual fee Chase card will change depending on how much is charged to it on a yearly basis.
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Old Jul 16, 17, 5:21 pm
  #22  
 
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Am I missing something here? The first option seems to read to only impact the 50% travel credit bonus and not 1:1 partners. So spending the full $1500 in a quarter gets you 7500 points but that would be worth $75 for travel credit not $112.50 with CSR however those same 7500 UR would transfer to United for 7500 miles?
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Old Jul 16, 17, 6:55 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
Why would they even ask such a stupid group of questions?

"Would you like it if we made your points less valuable and threw restrictions into the program?"

Exactly. What would be the point? This is so silly for them to even float such an idea.

The 5/24 rule is dumb enough, and now this?
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Old Jul 16, 17, 7:22 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
Right. AMEX has come thru for us every time when we need to file a dispute or a claim.

Chase on the other hand has an agonizing long process and at the end what it promised still did not come thru on the card.
The longer process has nothing to do with Chase.... It is an issue with Visa and MasterCard in general, which is why you won't find people who are loyal to either of those networks like they are with American Express.

AMEX is both the processor and the network so it has an advantage in dispute and rewards situations.

Chase should stay with its own mid market level instead of trying to break in the high end cards market. The decision to incur huge acquisition cost has proved to be a costly mistake so far and it could not wait to make remedy.
Give me a break. The actual company is JP Morgan, and their stock is up $30 a share this year.

If you want "Chase" to get rid of high end cards, they would have to get rid of both the JP Morgan Reserve and the Sapphire Reserve, which won't happen.

I would say Chase is doing pretty well, even when they've lost money from these cards.

Last edited by mikesyr18; Jul 16, 17 at 7:33 pm
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Old Jul 16, 17, 7:29 pm
  #25  
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[redacted]

It is true that the value of UR will be significantly reduced under the proposed change. However, neither Freedom or FU is designed as a card similar to CSP or CSR. Both Freedom and FU are designed as cashback cards (in the form of UR). Its cashback structure has not been impacted by this proposed change.

If you don't like the term "sub-system", I would rather say this as "You get what you pay for".

To be fair, Citi does not always give 1 year before the changes. Some changes were noticed for 1-2 months before the change was implemented.

Legally speaking - Chase reserves the right to change the T&Cs at any times. With this, Chase can do pretty much as it sees fit.

Originally Posted by BOSTravels View Post
If FU loses the ability to transfer to CSR/CSP and therefore loses transfer to e.g. airlines, AMEX EveryDay will be superior to FU.
True.

Originally Posted by BOSTravels View Post
In fact, if FU becomes a simpleton 1.5% cash back card you might as well get a simpleton 2% cash back card from e.g. Citi or Cap1.
Only half is true. While Citi DC earns 2%, it lacks a bonus that both Chase and Cap1 offer.

Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 17, 17 at 10:41 pm Reason: Removed redacted quotes and commentary
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Old Jul 16, 17, 8:33 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
Only half is true. While Citi DC earns 2%, it lacks a bonus that both Chase and Cap1 offer.
Bonus?
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Old Jul 16, 17, 9:53 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
It is true that the value of UR will be significantly reduced under the proposed change. However, neither Freedom or FU is designed as a card similar to CSP or CSR. Both Freedom and FU are designed as cashback cards (in the form of UR). Its cashback structure has not been impacted by this proposed change.
It is a fallacy to declare that the Freedom cards "are designed as cashback cards" and, since the "cashback structure has not been impacted," the cards have not been devalued. Your argument reaches the desired conclusion only because you assumed the conclusion before you reached it.

This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."

[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.

[redacted]

Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 18, 17 at 9:59 am Reason: remove personalization
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Old Jul 16, 17, 10:28 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by Steve in Olympia View Post
It is a fallacy to declare that the Freedom cards "are designed as cashback cards" and, since the "cashback structure has not been impacted," the cards have not been devalued. Your argument reaches the desired conclusion only because you assumed the conclusion before you reached it.

This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."

[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.

[redacted].
Even though the Freedom and FU are "Cash back cars" even Chase markets the benefits as "points" that you can redeem for cash back. For example, when you read the fine terms on a FU sign up bonus it basically says that you get 15,000 points that can be redeemed for $150 cash back. It's really all about points and those points are used for cash back if you want them to be.

Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 18, 17 at 9:58 am Reason: Quote has been edited
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Old Jul 16, 17, 10:45 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
Chase should stay with its own mid market level instead of trying to break in the high end cards market. The decision to incur huge acquisition cost has proved to be a costly mistake so far and it could not wait to make remedy. Some analysts estimate that it would take Chase 5 to 6 years to recoup that acquisition cost. A very large percentage of the new customers acquired probably would not renew anyway whether it devalue the UR program or not. Now with the inevitable devaluation of UR program it just adds MORE attrition to the CSR card, as well as the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited card because now a straight 2% cash rebate card looks a whole lot better. Even for the 1.5% CapOne QuickSilver due to it has no Forex Fee and CapOne does not add any Visa network fee to the transaction unlike with all Chase so-called 0 Forex fee cards actually still incur 1% Visa Network fee built in the exchange rates.
You should give them this feedback. Chase is shooting itself in the foot with this idea of theirs.
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Old Jul 17, 17, 11:50 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by Steve in Olympia View Post
It is a fallacy to declare that the Freedom cards "are designed as cashback cards" and, since the "cashback structure has not been impacted," the cards have not been devalued. Your argument reaches the desired conclusion only because you assumed the conclusion before you reached it.

This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."

[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.

[redacted].
I'm only joining this debate today but I disagree that many consumers choose the Freedom cards because of the UR benefit. I posit that a vast majority of Freedom users are folks who are careful with their money and only use CCs that offer a nice cash back % and no AF. Granted, this is anecdotal, but every person that I've talked to about the Freedom immediately talks about no AF and 5%. None of them even know what the UR portal is. I know it's a very very small subset but I would wager a bet that most Freedom owners think this way. They are consumers that are more cash back focused than points focused.

All that said, this REALLY sucks for Ink card owners.

Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 18, 17 at 9:58 am Reason: Quote has been edited
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