Chase survey regarding possible changes when combining points.
Jul 16, 2017 | 2:10 pm
#16
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: St. Louis, MO
Programs: Southwest Companion Pass
Posts: 799
Reserve is not yet a year old. There have been no renewals.
Jul 16, 2017 | 2:21 pm
#17
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 205
The moment I read about this I IMMEDIATELY moved all my points from the Freedom to the CSP. I ain't procrastinating. I will do this monthly from now on.
I also predict that Chase will lose a lot of customers to AMEX if this trial balloon is actually implemented.
I also predict that Chase will lose a lot of customers to AMEX if this trial balloon is actually implemented.
Jul 16, 2017 | 3:00 pm
#18
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2. I will not say it is a devaluation, but instead creating a sub-system within the UR.
The proposed change, if implemented, focuses on non-AF UR cards like Freedom or FU. It does not necessarily affect AF UR cards like CSP or CSR.
Also - unlike Citi, which has reduced bonus categories reward earning for similar cards to almost non-existence, Freedom and FU are still earning as advertised (for now).
This changes will definitely slow down the number of new issuance. But it is not enough to trigger an escape.
Don't forget - as a matter of fact, Citi is the one losing, not Chase.
Jul 16, 2017 | 3:04 pm
#19
Join Date: Aug 2012
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However AMEX still wins in the depts of customer service primarily in how to handling claims of all covered benefits. - purchase protection, trip interruption, Med Evac which does not even need to use the AMEX Plat card to pay the initial travel, rental car coverage, and just the general disputes - far better than how Chase handles it as Chase outsources the functions completely while AMEX keeps at least the administration in house afaik last time we used such benefits.
For us, it's a reason they're keeper cards rather than churn and burn.
Jul 16, 2017 | 3:50 pm
#20
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 205
In fact, if FU becomes a simpleton 1.5% cash back card you might as well get a simpleton 2% cash back card from e.g. Citi or Cap1.
Jul 16, 2017 | 4:19 pm
#21
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 601
I've been debating for months whether to use the FU or the Cap One Spark Cash card (2%) for the miscellaneous purchases in places that don't accept AMEX. These proposed changes have made the decision much easier for me now. If Freedom and Ink become straight up 5% cards, they will still be useful, but the decision to keep an annual fee Chase card will change depending on how much is charged to it on a yearly basis.
Jul 16, 2017 | 5:21 pm
#22
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 445
Am I missing something here? The first option seems to read to only impact the 50% travel credit bonus and not 1:1 partners. So spending the full $1500 in a quarter gets you 7500 points but that would be worth $75 for travel credit not $112.50 with CSR however those same 7500 UR would transfer to United for 7500 miles?
Jul 16, 2017 | 6:55 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 48
Exactly. What would be the point? This is so silly for them to even float such an idea.
The 5/24 rule is dumb enough, and now this?
Jul 16, 2017 | 7:22 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2017
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AMEX is both the processor and the network so it has an advantage in dispute and rewards situations.
Chase should stay with its own mid market level instead of trying to break in the high end cards market. The decision to incur huge acquisition cost has proved to be a costly mistake so far and it could not wait to make remedy.
If you want "Chase" to get rid of high end cards, they would have to get rid of both the JP Morgan Reserve and the Sapphire Reserve, which won't happen.
I would say Chase is doing pretty well, even when they've lost money from these cards.
Last edited by mikesyr18; Jul 16, 2017 at 7:33 pm
Jul 16, 2017 | 7:29 pm
#25
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[redacted]
It is true that the value of UR will be significantly reduced under the proposed change. However, neither Freedom or FU is designed as a card similar to CSP or CSR. Both Freedom and FU are designed as cashback cards (in the form of UR). Its cashback structure has not been impacted by this proposed change.
If you don't like the term "sub-system", I would rather say this as "You get what you pay for".
To be fair, Citi does not always give 1 year before the changes. Some changes were noticed for 1-2 months before the change was implemented.
Legally speaking - Chase reserves the right to change the T&Cs at any times. With this, Chase can do pretty much as it sees fit.
True.
Only half is true. While Citi DC earns 2%, it lacks a bonus that both Chase and Cap1 offer.
It is true that the value of UR will be significantly reduced under the proposed change. However, neither Freedom or FU is designed as a card similar to CSP or CSR. Both Freedom and FU are designed as cashback cards (in the form of UR). Its cashback structure has not been impacted by this proposed change.
If you don't like the term "sub-system", I would rather say this as "You get what you pay for".
To be fair, Citi does not always give 1 year before the changes. Some changes were noticed for 1-2 months before the change was implemented.
Legally speaking - Chase reserves the right to change the T&Cs at any times. With this, Chase can do pretty much as it sees fit.
Only half is true. While Citi DC earns 2%, it lacks a bonus that both Chase and Cap1 offer.
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 17, 2017 at 10:41 pm Reason: Removed redacted quotes and commentary
Jul 16, 2017 | 9:53 pm
#27
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,894
It is true that the value of UR will be significantly reduced under the proposed change. However, neither Freedom or FU is designed as a card similar to CSP or CSR. Both Freedom and FU are designed as cashback cards (in the form of UR). Its cashback structure has not been impacted by this proposed change.
This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."
[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.
[redacted]
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 18, 2017 at 9:59 am Reason: remove personalization
Jul 16, 2017 | 10:28 pm
#28
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 241
It is a fallacy to declare that the Freedom cards "are designed as cashback cards" and, since the "cashback structure has not been impacted," the cards have not been devalued. Your argument reaches the desired conclusion only because you assumed the conclusion before you reached it.
This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."
[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.
[redacted].
This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."
[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.
[redacted].
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 18, 2017 at 9:58 am Reason: Quote has been edited
Jul 16, 2017 | 10:45 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 48
Chase should stay with its own mid market level instead of trying to break in the high end cards market. The decision to incur huge acquisition cost has proved to be a costly mistake so far and it could not wait to make remedy. Some analysts estimate that it would take Chase 5 to 6 years to recoup that acquisition cost. A very large percentage of the new customers acquired probably would not renew anyway whether it devalue the UR program or not. Now with the inevitable devaluation of UR program it just adds MORE attrition to the CSR card, as well as the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited card because now a straight 2% cash rebate card looks a whole lot better. Even for the 1.5% CapOne QuickSilver due to it has no Forex Fee and CapOne does not add any Visa network fee to the transaction unlike with all Chase so-called 0 Forex fee cards actually still incur 1% Visa Network fee built in the exchange rates.
Jul 17, 2017 | 11:50 am
#30
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
It is a fallacy to declare that the Freedom cards "are designed as cashback cards" and, since the "cashback structure has not been impacted," the cards have not been devalued. Your argument reaches the desired conclusion only because you assumed the conclusion before you reached it.
This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."
[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.
[redacted].
This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."
[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.
[redacted].
All that said, this REALLY sucks for Ink card owners.
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 18, 2017 at 9:58 am Reason: Quote has been edited