Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Credit, Debit and Prepaid Card Programs > Chase | Ultimate Rewards
Reload this Page >

Chase survey regarding possible changes when combining points.

Chase survey regarding possible changes when combining points.

Old Jul 17, 17, 12:19 pm
  #31  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SNA; LAX
Posts: 190
After i filled in the survey, I consolidated my UR points up. I'm not going to leave it up to chance there's a grace period to do it once they announce the new "enhanced" benefits.
miuk is offline  
Old Jul 17, 17, 12:23 pm
  #32  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 205
Chase must suddenly see a surge in points transfers from F/FU to CSP/CSR...lol.
BOSTravels is offline  
Old Jul 17, 17, 12:58 pm
  #33  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: BAY AREA
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by BOSTravels View Post
Chase must suddenly see a surge in points transfers from F/FU to CSP/CSR...lol.
I'm sure anyone familiar with the ur structure would transfer all their points from F/FU to CSP/CSR. I do that only a monthly base. Lol
trikotret is offline  
Old Jul 17, 17, 2:37 pm
  #34  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 10,296
Originally Posted by jalabi99 View Post
Chase is shooting itself in the foot with this idea of theirs.
Implement or not, Chase is shooting itself either ways.
garykung is offline  
Old Jul 17, 17, 8:01 pm
  #35  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 1,959
Originally Posted by garykung View Post
Implement or not, Chase is shooting itself either ways.
In addition to shooting themselves in the foot with being the best issuer of major bank cards in America, they'll shoot themselves in foot again if they devalue the point value on the Freedom and INK cards.

You know what would be great? If companies actually gave a [redacted] like they used to, and didn't pretend they were broke and on the verge of bankruptcy.

Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 18, 17 at 9:57 am Reason: vulgar
mikesyr18 is offline  
Old Jul 17, 17, 10:07 pm
  #36  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,300
Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
Give me a break. The actual company is JP Morgan, and their stock is up $30 a share this year.

If you want "Chase" to get rid of high end cards, they would have to get rid of both the JP Morgan Reserve and the Sapphire Reserve, which won't happen.

I would say Chase is doing pretty well, even when they've lost money from these cards.
The credit card business only contributes a small portion of the bank's profit if you even read the 10Q and 10K now you are talking about stock price.

JP Morgan Reserve card's customer base is MUCH smaller than the Sapphire Reserve. Chase wants a much bigger piece of the high end market than the JP Morgan Palladium currently has. That is the reason to introduce the Sapphire Reserve because it cannot grow the Palladium meaningfully.

The name change on the Palladium should be a story-telling to you that why Chase wants to introduce the "Reserve" line of cards.

Talk about high end market - just take a look of the AMEX Plat card line-up - you have the generic Plat card, the MB Plat and the card for Ameriprise customers though seems everyone can get it for example But the Schwab's Plat and the Morgan Stanley Plat definitely are only for the folks that actually have a high investment assets in the respective institutions, no less than the JP Morgan Palladium, sorry, the now "Reserve" card.
So the AMEX High End market is a much stronger line up than Chase's JP Morgan Palladium then the new Sapphire Reserve which is not even a year old and already Chase has to think about cut backs.
Happy is offline  
Old Jul 17, 17, 10:15 pm
  #37  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,300
Originally Posted by Steve in Olympia View Post
It is a fallacy to declare that the Freedom cards "are designed as cashback cards" and, since the "cashback structure has not been impacted," the cards have not been devalued. Your argument reaches the desired conclusion only because you assumed the conclusion before you reached it.

This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway."

[redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards.

[redacted].
Thank You for pointing this out despite I am accused for twisting the mathematical aspect.

Originally Posted by slm9555 View Post
Even though the Freedom and FU are "Cash back cars" even Chase markets the benefits as "points" that you can redeem for cash back. For example, when you read the fine terms on a FU sign up bonus it basically says that you get 15,000 points that can be redeemed for $150 cash back. It's really all about points and those points are used for cash back if you want them to be.
Exactly!

Several years ago we received preapproval Ink Cash offers with "$250" bonus like every 2 months. I always threw it away thinking that we did not want a cash rebate card... That was until one day I finally sat down to read the T&Cs, then found out it actually was 25,000 points that can be redeemed for $250 cash back... That tells us that Chase does not intend this card as a cash rebate card from the outset - the cash rebate is just one of the redemption options.

Freedom has gone from straight cash rebate to UR point earning at least 5 or more years ago fwiw.

Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Jul 18, 17 at 9:56 am Reason: Quote has been edited
Happy is offline  
Old Jul 17, 17, 10:20 pm
  #38  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,300
Originally Posted by garykung View Post
Legally speaking - Chase reserves the right to change the T&Cs at any times. With this, Chase can do pretty much as it sees fit.
We all know that. Nobody argues about this. It is the devaluation we are talking / arguing about here, not whether Chase has the right to do so or not. Hence dont go off topic.
Happy is offline  
Old Jul 17, 17, 10:45 pm
  #39  
Moderator: Travel Buzz, Chase Credit Cards
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 2,750
Moderator Note: Please follow the FT rules and respond to concepts and ideas without name calling.
StartinSanDiego is offline  
Old Jul 18, 17, 9:22 am
  #40  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: United, American, Delta, Jet Blue
Posts: 3
My fear is that the devaluation of UR transfers from no-fee to fee cards is only the first phase of Chase's changes. The second phase will likely be to adjust the fee and/or benefits of the CSR, but they won't even hint about such changes until the first wave of CSR cardholders has made its renewal decisions. I'm thinking they will either increase the CSR's annual fee or reduce the travel credit to put greater distance between the cost of holding a CSP ($95) and a CSR ($450-300=150). I predict the rumors will start in November.
UpperNWGuy is offline  
Old Jul 18, 17, 4:19 pm
  #41  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 10,296
Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
In addition to shooting themselves in the foot with being the best issuer of major bank cards in America, they'll shoot themselves in foot again if they devalue the point value on the Freedom and INK cards.
Actually, the best go to Discover and AMEX according to J.D. Power.

Chase is not as great as you think.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
You know what would be great? If companies actually gave a [redacted] like they used to, and didn't pretend they were broke and on the verge of bankruptcy.
The reality is banks want your money. They don't give a [thing] about customers.

As you are forced to play the game, the only thing you can do is to get leverage with the banks.

Originally Posted by Happy View Post
The credit card business only contributes a small portion of the bank's profit if you even read the 10Q and 10K now you are talking about stock price.
I read the latest 10K per your advice. It turns to be the credit card business was significant to JPM, which contribute almost 10% of its noninterest revenue in 2016 (more than 10% in 2014 and 2015). On the other hand, JPM made less money from mortgage.

Originally Posted by UpperNWGuy View Post
My fear is that the devaluation of UR transfers from no-fee to fee cards is only the first phase of Chase's changes. The second phase will likely be to adjust the fee and/or benefits of the CSR, but they won't even hint about such changes until the first wave of CSR cardholders has made its renewal decisions. I'm thinking they will either increase the CSR's annual fee or reduce the travel credit to put greater distance between the cost of holding a CSP ($95) and a CSR ($450-300=150). I predict the rumors will start in November.
As soon as the revenue generated from CSP and/or CSR is sufficient, the cut may not happen at all.
garykung is offline  
Old Jul 18, 17, 5:03 pm
  #42  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 1,959
Originally Posted by garykung View Post
Actually, the best go to Discover and AMEX according to J.D. Power.

Chase is not as great as you think.
Yes I realize this. Chase looks like they've fallen a bit to #6 .

Not really sure how credible JD Power is anymore, though, since they list Capital One as #3 behind AMEX and Disco... I really don't see that as being true.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...sfaction-study

And not to get off topic, but UR points in combination with "cash back" is a pretty good system, whereas AMEX and Discover do not have that. You cannot take your rewards dollars and turn them into Membership Rewards for example to get 6 MR per dollar at grocery stores, and then transfer them 1:1 at many of the transfer partners they offer (but not all since many aren't 1:1).

Last edited by mikesyr18; Jul 18, 17 at 5:30 pm
mikesyr18 is offline  
Old Jul 18, 17, 6:27 pm
  #43  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: St. Louis, MO
Programs: Southwest Companion Pass
Posts: 729
If Chase were to do this, when would it likely happen? It wouldn't seem right if you paid your annual fee and it's too late to get refund. I'm just wondering this because the one year anniversary is coming up. It seems like it would only be fair to give you the chance to agree to the terms before you pay another annual fee.
Critterlynn is offline  
Old Jul 18, 17, 7:02 pm
  #44  
mia
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Moderator: American Express, Citi, Diners Club, Signatures
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; HH Gold
Posts: 38,623
Originally Posted by Critterlynn View Post
... wouldn't seem right if you paid your annual fee ...
The cards discussed have no annual fees. I realize you are thinking about the card which receives the points, but the change would be made to the terms of the cards that send the points and those are free.
mia is offline  
Old Jul 18, 17, 7:07 pm
  #45  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,300
Originally Posted by garykung View Post
I read the latest 10K per your advice. It turns to be the credit card business was significant to JPM, which contribute almost 10% of its noninterest revenue in 2016 (more than 10% in 2014 and 2015). On the other hand, JPM made less money from mortgage.
The Investment banking and Commercial banking, together they are bigger than the Consumer banking in JP Morgan's business model.

In house Trading of Equities and Fixed Income contribute a significant amount of earnings.

The latest quarter just reported, Net Income was $7 Billions.

In comparison, the consumer and community banking unit, JPMorgan's largest business division that operates Chase Bank, reported $11.4 billion in revenue, flat from a year ago.
The unit's net income was $2.2 billion

So, Chase bank's Net Income which is from all activities including business loans, mortgages, credit cards, etc etc, is 28% of the Total Net Income. I dont bother to dig up the number from CC out of the $2.2 billion. Needless to say, it contributes far less than the investment banking and trading activities. That is where the top tier banks make the bulk of their profit.

Last edited by Happy; Jul 18, 17 at 7:22 pm
Happy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread