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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.
All Chase issued cards are here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old Apr 27, 2018, 3:29 pm
  #1681  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by vbnet
So if I get a chase ink and get lucky with the 100k in bank app + initial spend + a little extra spend, I transfer the 140k points into mileage plus until I decide to cash in for an intl bus class tkt. I find it's the airline portion of a vaca that is most expensive, I can get deals on hotels.

Those points would then be miles mixed in with my regular UA traveling, and spending miles which goes on several times a month so if I do close the ink at sometime, they wouldn't expire while they are miles in my mileage plus account correct?
I think you'd be wise to keep them with Chase until you're ready to redeem with United. You won't have to worry about expiration or devaluation .You can transfer to UA anytime, but you can't transfer them back, so keep the flexibility until you're ready to use them.
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Old Apr 27, 2018, 4:29 pm
  #1682  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 286
Curious to get additional data on those of you whole have done the CSR/CSP same day double dip. Obviously under 5/24 but how many open and recent accounts did you guys have? I got the Chase CIP last month and am done with their business cards for now (have Ink Plus, Cash, and Preferred). On the personal side, I have the Freedom, IHG, and Hyatt cards. Credit journey shows I have a 817 score, 3 open accounts in 2 years, and 20 open accounts. My strategy was to apply for the CSR/CSP on the same day to double dip the bonuses, but after reading about Chase shutting down whole accounts for having too many accounts open, even after approval, I'm getting a bit worried. My plan was to keep the CSR and eventually PC the CSP to a FU. Is that too much or should I just stick with one Sapphire application?
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Old Apr 27, 2018, 4:31 pm
  #1683  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by crapz1
Curious to get additional data on those of you whole have done the CSR/CSP same day double dip. Obviously under 5/24 but how many open and recent accounts did you guys have? I got the Chase CIP last month and am done with their business cards for now (have Ink Plus, Cash, and Preferred). On the personal side, I have the Freedom, IHG, and Hyatt cards. Credit journey shows I have a 817 score, 3 open accounts in 2 years, and 20 open accounts. My strategy was to apply for the CSR/CSP on the same day to double dip the bonuses, but after reading about Chase shutting down whole accounts for having too many accounts open, even after approval, I'm getting a bit worried. My plan was to keep the CSR and eventually PC the CSP to a FU. Is that too much or should I just stick with one Sapphire application?
I was under the impression (based on what I've read) they consider CSP and CSR to be the same product (Sapphire) and they will deny you if you have one and apply for the other.
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Old Apr 27, 2018, 4:39 pm
  #1684  
mia
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Originally Posted by fold
.... consider CSP and CSR to be the same product (Sapphire) and they will deny you if you have one and apply for the other.
There are three Sapphire cards. You will not be approved for another if you currently hold one, but you could apply for two simultaneously. Discussion here:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chas...hire-card.html
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Old Apr 27, 2018, 8:11 pm
  #1685  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by fold
I think you'd be wise to keep them with Chase until you're ready to redeem with United. You won't have to worry about expiration or devaluation .You can transfer to UA anytime, but you can't transfer them back, so keep the flexibility until you're ready to use them.
I guess it makes the most sense since you can move them over very quickly when needed. Thanks for the advice.
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Old Apr 28, 2018, 9:07 pm
  #1686  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Programs: WN A-list., Marriott Plat, National EX, UA Silver
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by baroqen
Applied last week for the Ink Cash. Got the 30 day, called the automated line two days later and it was approved.

First name, last name. Sole prop. I'm well under 5/24 at the moment.

Flyguy - It takes some time, effort, and money to register a fictitious name. Not a substantial amount, but it might not be worth it for you depending on what you're actually doing for your side hustle and what your long term goal is for the business. If it's just a side hustle and not an eventual "real" business, then I wouldn't bother. You're technically required to report income for it if you actually earned income, although I don't think there's a tremendous amount of enforcement in this area when you're talking about small amounts of money. That said, you're still leaving yourself open to an unreasonable risk, especially if you're only trying to avoid a small amount of tax. Bearing in mind that you can also report a loss (negative income) for the business as well if that applies as well as gaining certain deductions so in some cases you might actually pay LESS tax. In fact, in some cases such as rental property, you are essentially required to depreciate the asset. When it comes to your taxes when you sell the property, the government will treat it as if you have depreciated it regardless of whether you actually did or not.
What did you put for business income and years of operation? Did you get asked for any business documentation or business verification? I just got the official letter from Chase today. They are asking for documents with the following info: name of your company, federal tax identification number and proof of current business physical address.

Good explanation. Big thanks!
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Old Apr 29, 2018, 11:16 pm
  #1687  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by flyguy6
What did you put for business income and years of operation? Did you get asked for any business documentation or business verification? I just got the official letter from Chase today. They are asking for documents with the following info: name of your company, federal tax identification number and proof of current business physical address.

Good explanation. Big thanks!
I've been in operation for about 7 years, which is what I put. Business income around 70k. I was not asked for any verification or documentation. I guess a lot of it depends on what type of business you're claiming as well. For instance, I rent out residential property as opposed to say... brick and mortar retail sales. Everything gets reported under my personal income tax ID number, which probably isn't the smartest thing. I should probably think about an LLC or something eventually but that's off topic. While I somehow doubt that Chase has access to my tax returns, I know that some of the other information (such as property ownership) is public record. No idea how much legwork their underwriters are doing,
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Old May 2, 2018, 4:00 am
  #1688  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 456
Question regarding the Chase application limit. I read something about Chase limited to two personal and one business application per 30 days? Does this apply to ALL Chase cards, including those not subject to the 5/24 rule? For instance, since I applied for the Chase Ink already, do I need to wait 30 days before I can apply for the new IHG or the Hyatt card?
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Old May 2, 2018, 5:40 am
  #1689  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by baroqen
Question regarding the Chase application limit. I read something about Chase limited to two personal and one business application per 30 days? Does this apply to ALL Chase cards, including those not subject to the 5/24 rule? For instance, since I applied for the Chase Ink already, do I need to wait 30 days before I can apply for the new IHG or the Hyatt card?
It applies to all Chase cards, but your interpretation of the rule is incorrect. When applying for a business card, you must have 0 other Chase applications in the last 30 days. When applying for a personal card, you must have no more than 1 other Chase application in the last 30 days. You should be able to apply for either the new IHG or Hyatt card now, but only one of them.

There are exceptions to this rule, but it's almost always enforced.
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Old May 4, 2018, 7:31 am
  #1690  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 928
Marriott Premier Plus Personal

At 5/24 (6/24 with AU) - applied this morning - no go. 30 day automated notice. Called recon - 5/24.

I know brand new card, so figured maybe jump on it...I was the datapoint.
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Old May 4, 2018, 8:31 pm
  #1691  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by levilevi
At 5/24 (6/24 with AU) - applied this morning - no go. 30 day automated notice. Called recon - 5/24.

I know brand new card, so figured maybe jump on it...I was the datapoint.
Thanks for posting. But a few more DPs would help.

Did you successfully get Chase Recon to lower you from 6/24 to 5/24 based on AU?

If so, and they denied you based on 5/24, did they give you a reason? Because 5/24 is not a reason for an automatic denial, OVER 5/24 is the official reason.

When was your last Chase app, and what is your TCCL?
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Old May 4, 2018, 10:16 pm
  #1692  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 6,196
Originally Posted by RobertHanson
Thanks for posting. But a few more DPs would help.

Did you successfully get Chase Recon to lower you from 6/24 to 5/24 based on AU?

If so, and they denied you based on 5/24, did they give you a reason? Because 5/24 is not a reason for an automatic denial, OVER 5/24 is the official reason.

When was your last Chase app, and what is your TCCL?
That is not correct. The 5/24 rule is five or more cards opened in the last 24 months. So if you are exactly 5/24, you lose.
Diplomatico is offline  
Old May 5, 2018, 5:47 am
  #1693  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by RobertHanson
...Because 5/24 is not a reason for an automatic denial, OVER 5/24 is the official reason.
Seconding Diplo, as this is not correct. Exactly 5/24 is an auto denial.
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Old May 5, 2018, 8:24 am
  #1694  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
5/6/24

Be that way, see if I care. The actual rule, which is mis-named 5/24, is 6 or more is auto denial. Exactly 5 is YMMV; as multiple DPs on this thread document. But if you prefer your own personal version of Chase policy, that's fine with me.
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Old May 5, 2018, 5:18 pm
  #1695  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,196
Originally Posted by RobertHanson
Be that way, see if I care. The actual rule, which is mis-named 5/24, is 6 or more is auto denial. Exactly 5 is YMMV; as multiple DPs on this thread document. But if you prefer your own personal version of Chase policy, that's fine with me.
The "actual rule" is in the wiki at the top of the page. It's five or more card opened within the last 24 months.

(Note: Some Chase cards are not subject to 5/24 so people can get approved even when at or over 5/24....those are exceptions to the rule. Also, CIP applications submitted on a paper application by a Chase Business Relationship Manager may also bypass 5/24. Another loophole to the "actual rule".)
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