websteth

This makes total sense. I didn’t realize JPMR was such a small population at only 3,000

747FC

This is the first time I've seen this figure, and you cited it quite authoritatively. Where did you uncover this datapoint?

FleyeSkyHigh

I've heard the figure from multiple sources but obviously it's not a publicly available datapoint but is supported by publicly available information:

1. The JPMR product is only marketed to "Ultra High Network" Private Bank clients with investable assets in excess of $10MM+ (although there are exceptions as some on the IB team get access to the Private Bank) but those are just rounding errors. Hold overs from the Palladium card are relatively insignificant as well.

2. An Ultra High Network client relationship is defined as investable assets of $10MM++ and the bank has 4% (on the high end) of market share of a total of 80,000 UHN individuals in the U.S. at end of 2018 (public filings). Card is only available to U.S. domiciles. So only ~3,200 maximum of client relationships would even be eligible under JPM published marketing of the card.

3. The take rate of JPMR by client relationships is certainly below 80% and could be even far lower. For example, more than 20% of these relationships are managed by fiduciary of a trust and therefore not eligible for consumer for credit. JPM (and most banks) do not extend revolving credit cards to trusts and when they do it would certainly be a business product for incidental operating costs of the trust.

So aside from hearsay from JPM bankers the publicly available data supports the number is certainly below 3,000. Now whether that number is closer to 1,000 or 2,500 is anyone’s guess.

Also, the Wikipedia claims there were 5,000 Palladium card holders but I think that data is back from 2012 when that product was open to applicants that didn't meet the $10MM++ requirement so through attrition of over five years coupled with the higher relationship requirements under 3,000 is the right number of holders.

Boraxo

Some of us Palladium folks were grandfathered into the new Reserve card. Not sure what the attrition rate is but probably less than CSR, which supposedly has a very high retention rate. Without a citation I would take Wikipedia with a grain of salt.

mia

There is a data set mismatch in these figures. The 80,000 UHN figure refers to individuals with $30 million or more. If Chase is using a $10 million threshold their potential market is much larger.

Source: Richest People on Earth: Ultra High Net Worth Population Dip | Money

AAdmiral

They should have left the card as a Palladium Card and not make it a clone of the CSR. Going forward JPM should raise the annual fees and discount it based on your relationship with JPM. Change the fee to $5000. If there are less than 5,000 card holders it shouldn’t be hard for JPM to negotiate benefits with its co-branded airline and hotel partners. JPM should do like Amex and Delta and do a tighter deal with United. Either offer 1K or at least Platinum status in Mileage Plus and also publish the United Club benefit to card holders. Also add Hyatt Globalist level and / or IHG Spire level. They also have relationship with British Airways and Southwest so a benefit from either or both would be great. As far as fees go for the card

$5000 regular member with no JPM relationship
$4000 fee with Chase Private Client relationship
$2500 fee with JP Morgan Private Bank relationship

Also add points earning benefits based on relationship with the bank.

JPM could then evaluate the card members spend and the cross benefits between the co-branded partners to see if it would be worth opening the card up to new members with a new member fee like the Centurion Card.

joelfreak

With CSR benefits supposedly being increased (as well as the AF), it will be interesting to see what they do with us with the Reserve.

websteth

My gut would be that it would follow around the same time but then again, two different markets for the cards.

joelfreak

I agree, but I really would go for an increase in benefits...especially since the UA Club benefit is useless to me, as I have it from another card that I don't want to get rid of. I wouldn't cancel my Reserve, but I would love more benefits, even if the AF goes higher. I can see paying $1K or so per year if they really beef it up.

websteth

Totally agree. I UA Lounge is sorta meh here when we travel so any added perks would indeed be nice.

comptalk

You loco.

joelfreak

Yes, I am...but if they beefed up the benefits, I don't see any reason why an AF of 1K would be something that would cause members to leave. This card is supposed to be exclusive.

comptalk

Most private bank clients, do not really care about the exclusivity. The JPM reserve is basically a rebranded CSR in a steel casing. I do not think their type of non-flashy cliente would accept a card with 1k AF. They are not trying to compete with AMEX Centurion, as JPM is an investment bank. AMEX is a quasi credit card / savings company with bank status due to the TARP. Many would drop the card and possibly risk losing a multi-million dollar client. Doubtful Jamie Dimon would allow that to happen on his watch.

websteth

It would have to add multiple high level status or benefits to justify something like a $1k fee. Most people with JPMPB or assets at that level are not going to want to spend that much on a fee for a credit card.

Magic Pickles

I agree; fee should go down, not up. Perhaps a negative fee?