May 15, 2014, 8:16 am
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
This thread is now archived. Please follow the topic here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-rewards/1986148-chase-closed-my-credit-card-account-s-tales-speculation-2019-thread.html
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
- Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last name?
- Did you sell UR points to someone?
- Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months?
- Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards?
- Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards?
- Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks?
- Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit in the past 2 months? ("Many" may be hard to define.)
- If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?
- Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months?
- Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit?
- Approximately what percentage of spending was on gift cards this year?
- How much of your bill do you typically pay using WM or KMart bill payment if any?
- Do you have a Chase mortgage or other account that might be profitable to Chase?
- Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score?
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
Chase closed my credit card account(s) [Archived 2013-mid 2019]
Jun 16, 2018, 9:03 am
#2086
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: HHonors Lifetime Diamond, UA Million Miler Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,142
These may be viewed as "negativity" as they are supposedly to show your payment history thus proves you are a responsible person, I dont agree these 3 "negativity" would have enough impact to affect score.
Our mortgages and car loan were decades ago and I dont even know if they ever show up on the credit reports. At least there are Zero records of them probably due to paying off so long ago they fell off. The subsequent residences and cars were all paid with cash. Never have a student loan.
But the first time we learned about our scores, when we opened a Wachovia (now Wells Fargo) checking account, the banker commented, "wow, you guys have very high scores." She would not let us see the actual numbers but said they were well above 750. She also commented we had quite a few credit cards which I pointed to her many of them were closed by customers, and all of them were paid in full without ever having a revolving balance. She nodded, "I noticed that." That was about 15 years ago.
I do notice that we seem to be stuck at the level just under 800 for a long long long time, and the above "negativity" often mentioned in those analytical tools, as being "no recurring payments type of loans". But who cares?! Credit worthiness has never been a factor in a denied application which everyone in this game would encounter a few no matter what.
FICO is an important factor in the sense it can be used as a cut off threshold, but it is not the determinant factor.
Yet, it is still odd that the poster has $10 to $15K monthly spend on travels, hotels, and dining - may be work related and being reimbursed - but the bank's black box probably just sees outsize spending in certain categories that do not fit a regular consumer profile and flag the accounts, then led to the eventual consequence.
Frankly, how many cardholder would spend $10 to $15K Every Month on the travel/hotel/dining catehories as a Consumer?
Our mortgages and car loan were decades ago and I dont even know if they ever show up on the credit reports. At least there are Zero records of them probably due to paying off so long ago they fell off. The subsequent residences and cars were all paid with cash. Never have a student loan.
But the first time we learned about our scores, when we opened a Wachovia (now Wells Fargo) checking account, the banker commented, "wow, you guys have very high scores." She would not let us see the actual numbers but said they were well above 750. She also commented we had quite a few credit cards which I pointed to her many of them were closed by customers, and all of them were paid in full without ever having a revolving balance. She nodded, "I noticed that." That was about 15 years ago.
I do notice that we seem to be stuck at the level just under 800 for a long long long time, and the above "negativity" often mentioned in those analytical tools, as being "no recurring payments type of loans". But who cares?! Credit worthiness has never been a factor in a denied application which everyone in this game would encounter a few no matter what.
FICO is an important factor in the sense it can be used as a cut off threshold, but it is not the determinant factor.
Yet, it is still odd that the poster has $10 to $15K monthly spend on travels, hotels, and dining - may be work related and being reimbursed - but the bank's black box probably just sees outsize spending in certain categories that do not fit a regular consumer profile and flag the accounts, then led to the eventual consequence.
Frankly, how many cardholder would spend $10 to $15K Every Month on the travel/hotel/dining catehories as a Consumer?
Jun 16, 2018, 9:20 am
#2087
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
You have another advantage which is "length of credit history". The average length of time that each of your accounts has been open. $150k annually for the poster in discussion here is not really a ton of money. I am sure chase is also looking at 10-15K per spend in a month and saying that exceeds his monthly income in some cases and approaches it regularly which is not sustainable.
I have not looked at if there is any info on Chase latest quarterly report on the delinquency rate but apparently the bank takes note on the general trend which mia has pointed out. earlier.
I am surprised there is not much attention to a relatively new denial reason just posted by freeflyin.
The DP posted by someone who got a denial even at 1/24 with the reason of "too many accounts in the applicant's name" (because the applicant is AU on every spousal's account), is quite alarming, and tell-tale. Chase system would look further, much further, than the recent card opening history, but all the accounts one's name associated with, then add the aggregated CLs of all those accounts even you are just an AU - but you have full access to those CLs - that is how Chase system looks at.
Last edited by Happy; Jun 16, 2018 at 9:28 am
Jun 16, 2018, 4:43 pm
#2088
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunny AZ
Programs: HH Diamond, Sixt Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott/SPG Gold .....
Posts: 3,214
We are all just guessing here .... they might compare your score against everyone in your zip code or you spending pattern against people in the same income range or ..... whatever they are doing it seems to be overly agressive
and we never know all the facts here anyway 50k limit with 16% utilization.... which could be one card is at 100% and everything else at 0% and so on and so forth
collect data points and try to offer advise but stay away from trying to explain why Chase does what they are doing
and we never know all the facts here anyway 50k limit with 16% utilization.... which could be one card is at 100% and everything else at 0% and so on and so forth
collect data points and try to offer advise but stay away from trying to explain why Chase does what they are doing
Jun 17, 2018, 1:41 am
#2089
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
No, a utilization under 20% isn't at all "high," and 732 is at the very low end of the expected FICO for someone with no negatives, a ~10-year credit history, and an average age of accounts (AAoA) of ~3 years.
Jun 17, 2018, 6:18 am
#2090
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Virginia
Programs: HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott nobody
Posts: 470
I wonder whether the recent issues reported by Jinrop and Freeflyin had anything to do with the total Chase exposure that Chase is comfortable with. I read somewhere before that 50k to 60k is the magic number for many people. I don't know how the number is calculated by Chase and what is the underlining income numbers. What if Chase quietly lowered that number to reduce their exposure further? The 40k chase exposure for Jinrop is not a number that should cause a shutdown, so I tend to agree with Happy that Chase was looking at the something (which we do not know) and did not like it.
Chase has been giving me very large credit lines in the last few credit cards I opened with them. In order to apply for another Chase card, I had to keep reducing the credit lines on them before I applied. I still got rejected for an Explorer card by Chase at 4/24. While they mentioned "the total credit line" as the reason, they did not agree to moving the credit lines around.
Like Freeflyin, I did not press the issue avoid problems with the other existing Chase cards.
Chase has been giving me very large credit lines in the last few credit cards I opened with them. In order to apply for another Chase card, I had to keep reducing the credit lines on them before I applied. I still got rejected for an Explorer card by Chase at 4/24. While they mentioned "the total credit line" as the reason, they did not agree to moving the credit lines around.
Like Freeflyin, I did not press the issue avoid problems with the other existing Chase cards.
Jun 17, 2018, 7:25 am
#2091
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
High utilization, no mortgage ever, no car loans ever. These factors weigh down OPs score. That's the definition of "negatives".
I'm also not the only one here who disagrees with your characterization of utilization. 20% may not be "red flag" territory yet, but it's high. If OP showed one month in the optimal 1-3% range, you can be sure there would be a pop in their score.
Jun 17, 2018, 7:46 am
#2092
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunny AZ
Programs: HH Diamond, Sixt Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott/SPG Gold .....
Posts: 3,214
You and I just have a different definition of "negatives". You seem to be using it as a synonym for "delinquencies" for some reason. OP doesn't have delinquencies but there are absolutely negatives.
High utilization, no mortgage ever, no car loans ever. These factors weigh down OPs score. That's the definition of "negatives".
I'm also not the only one here who disagrees with your characterization of utilization. 20% may not be "red flag" territory yet, but it's high. If OP showed one month in the optimal 1-3% range, you can be sure there would be a pop in their score.
High utilization, no mortgage ever, no car loans ever. These factors weigh down OPs score. That's the definition of "negatives".
I'm also not the only one here who disagrees with your characterization of utilization. 20% may not be "red flag" territory yet, but it's high. If OP showed one month in the optimal 1-3% range, you can be sure there would be a pop in their score.
Jun 17, 2018, 5:38 pm
#2094
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Virginia
Programs: HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott nobody
Posts: 470
I agree with you, that is why I said that should not cause a shut down. Based on all the information provided by Jinrop, there was not one obvious reason for the shut down. Because many people would fit that profile. Chase may be looking at something that had not been mentioned in this thread.
Jun 17, 2018, 5:56 pm
#2095
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
You and I just have a different definition of "negatives". You seem to be using it as a synonym for "delinquencies" for some reason. OP doesn't have delinquencies but there are absolutely negatives.
High utilization, no mortgage ever, no car loans ever. These factors weigh down OPs score. That's the definition of "negatives".
I'm also not the only one here who disagrees with your characterization of utilization. 20% may not be "red flag" territory yet, but it's high. If OP showed one month in the optimal 1-3% range, you can be sure there would be a pop in their score.
High utilization, no mortgage ever, no car loans ever. These factors weigh down OPs score. That's the definition of "negatives".
I'm also not the only one here who disagrees with your characterization of utilization. 20% may not be "red flag" territory yet, but it's high. If OP showed one month in the optimal 1-3% range, you can be sure there would be a pop in their score.
This idea that utilization should be 1% to 3% is a myth. There's little point in having credit cards if people have to rush to pay them before the statement even cuts for fear of a "high utilization" shutdown at less than 20% of available credit. If banks actually operated like this, they would be more conservative with credit lines in the first place.
The OP said he's an AU on someone else's card. Maybe that person is maxing out the credit limit? If so, that could cause a FICO drop.
Jun 18, 2018, 5:20 am
#2096
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,516
Well, after 1.5 years of coming back to Chase after a shutdown, my 2 cards are closed again. No MS, just irregular $5 purchases here and there.
This time, I want to call them and ask for reinstatement. Which department should I call?
This time, I want to call them and ask for reinstatement. Which department should I call?
Jun 18, 2018, 1:01 pm
#2098
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
Not sure why you insist on repeating the same wrong claim over and over. For about the fifth time, utilization of under 20% isn't at all considered a negative by FICO scoring models, nor does it "weigh down one's credit score" unless one or more individual cards are maxed out.
Jun 18, 2018, 1:07 pm
#2099
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunny AZ
Programs: HH Diamond, Sixt Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott/SPG Gold .....
Posts: 3,214
Not sure why you insist on repeating the same wrong claim over and over. For about the fifth time, utilization of under 20% isn't at all considered a negative by FICO scoring models, nor does it "weigh down one's credit score" unless one or more individual cards are maxed out.
0% utilization and the next month two lines reported each below $100 balances and the score dropped 10 points or so (can't remember as it a) was still high enough and b) would reverse the next month)
You claim that "under 20%" has no effect on the score is plainly incorrect. While in itself it doesn't have a huge effect but it has an effect. And negative/weigh down score/... is just semantics.
Jun 18, 2018, 1:10 pm
#2100
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunny AZ
Programs: HH Diamond, Sixt Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott/SPG Gold .....
Posts: 3,214
This idea that utilization should be 1% to 3% is a myth. There's little point in having credit cards if people have to rush to pay them before the statement even cuts for fear of a "high utilization" shutdown at less than 20% of available credit. If banks actually operated like this, they would be more conservative with credit lines in the first place.