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-   -   [Master Thread] Further Route Resumptions? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-cathay/2152503-master-thread-further-route-resumptions.html)

KhemaneyBoy May 22, 2024 11:34 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 36252040)
I highly doubt they'd put their DOT good graces with either of these (i.e. they require Russia overflights on the way back).

All their return flights from JFK, BOS, ORD and use Russian airspace. Given that, I doubt the DOT would stand in CX's way if they wanted to resume.

moondog May 22, 2024 6:28 pm


Originally Posted by KhemaneyBoy (Post 36252208)
All their return flights from JFK, BOS, ORD and use Russian airspace. Given that, I doubt the DOT would stand in CX's way if they wanted to resume.

JFK, BOS, and ORD either operated throughout most of the Covid period or were resumed before unions, lobbyists, and politicians made a stink about the "unfair advantage" Russian overflying affords to foreign carriers.

In addition to these general sentiments, I'd bet my bottom dollar that United Airlines would make EWR and IAD relaunches as painful as possible for CX until it is also permitted to operate flights in Russian airspace. I don't think this is a battle worth fighting for CX, especially given that there isn't a shortage of other routes for them to launch/relaunch.

allianceflyer9506 May 26, 2024 8:37 am

Timing of Resumed CX899 for onwards connection to Philippines from HKG
 

Originally Posted by moondog (Post 36252040)
I highly doubt they'd put their DOT good graces with either of these (i.e. they require Russia overflights on the way back).

For EWR CX890/899 on the on the return trip it has to connect to both CX907 HKG-MNL T3 and CX921 HKG-CEB arriving at the same time in HKG as CX843 from JFK T8. Which meant this have the JFK T8-HKG CX843 plane become CX907 to MNL replacing the currently scheduled A321-251N B-HPx and then have CX899 plane do the HKG-CEB CX921.

moondog May 26, 2024 9:58 am


Originally Posted by allianceflyer9506 (Post 36260481)
For EWR CX890/899 on the on the return trip it has to connect to both CX907 HKG-MNL T3 and CX921 HKG-CEB arriving at the same time in HKG as CX843 from JFK T8. Which meant this have the JFK T8-HKG CX843 plane become CX907 to MNL replacing the currently scheduled A321-251N B-HPx and then have CX899 plane do the HKG-CEB CX921.

Why are you so hung up on MNL? CX already flies there using several different a/c types. Some of those flights might connect nicely with its NYC flights, and some might not. But, why does this matter?

allianceflyer9506 May 26, 2024 10:06 am

Personal story on HKG-MNL
 

Originally Posted by moondog (Post 36260672)
Why are you so hung up on MNL? CX already flies there using several different a/c types. Some of those flights might connect nicely with its NYC flights, and some might not. But, why does this matter?

I ended up flying HKG-MNL 4 times which is why I'm familiar with it. Looking at the NYC flights they're timed to MNL flights with in 1-2hrs. Same is said for CX902 connecting to CX844 and furthermore CX fares can be cheaper than PR126/127. When my mother went back from PER on CX840 HKG-JFK B-LXL December 13th 2022. Her seat mate was a Filipino who connected from CX906/930 from MNL T3

moondog May 26, 2024 10:43 am


Originally Posted by allianceflyer9506 (Post 36260687)
I ended up flying HKG-MNL 4 times which is why I'm familiar with it. Looking at the NYC flights they're timed to MNL flights with in 1-2hrs. Same is said for CX902 connecting to CX844 and furthermore CX fares can be cheaper than PR126/127. When my mother went back from PER on CX840 HKG-JFK B-LXL December 13th 2022. Her seat mate was a Filipino who connected from CX906/930 from MNL T3

Allow me to put this simply:
1) HKG-JFK is the golden cow
2) HKG-MNL is useful, but not important
3) Making special arrangements to optimize connections between 1 and 2 would be a boneheaded decision

majorpuppy May 27, 2024 10:17 pm

It is possibly rumored CX would resume Cairns (CNS) flights with this seasonal schedule from December this year
CX 147 HKG 01:05-10:30 CNS
CX 146 CNS 12:00-17:15 HKG

Definitely think it's those subsidies... didn't expect this one to be resumed of all destinations

VE105 May 28, 2024 3:52 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 36253129)
JFK, BOS, and ORD either operated throughout most of the Covid period or were resumed before unions, lobbyists, and politicians made a stink about the "unfair advantage" Russian overflying affords to foreign carriers.

In addition to these general sentiments, I'd bet my bottom dollar that United Airlines would make EWR and IAD relaunches as painful as possible for CX until it is also permitted to operate flights in Russian airspace. I don't think this is a battle worth fighting for CX, especially given that there isn't a shortage of other routes for them to launch/relaunch.

I remember IAD performed poorly even before Covid hit......as for EWR, I don't see there is urgency for its relaunch when CX is still sending 359 to JFK...
Same goes to LGW, there is still quite some room for CX to increase capacity to LHR (frequency, replace 35G by 77K), LGW should only comes back when LHR is back to 6 77A/77K per day and still couldn't cope with the demand.

moondog May 28, 2024 4:02 am


Originally Posted by VE105 (Post 36264321)
I remember IAD performed poorly even before Covid hit......as for EWR, I don't see there is urgency for its relaunch when CX is still sending 359 to JFK...
Same goes to LGW, there is still quite some room for CX to increase capacity to LHR (frequency, replace 35G by 77K), LGW should only comes back when LHR is back to 6 77A/77K per day and still couldn't cope with the demand.

Both EWR and IAD would piss off UA.

thomas164 May 28, 2024 4:09 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 36264336)
Both EWR and IAD would piss off UA.

Just curious why would CX mind pissing off UA?

moondog May 28, 2024 4:22 am


Originally Posted by thomas164 (Post 36264346)
Just curious why would CX mind pissing off UA?

1. IAD and EWR are UA hubs
2. UA doesn't like the fact that other airlines utilize Russian airspace
3; Legally speaking, CX could fly to EWR, but doing so would invoke things like closed gates and/or runways

NZflyer777 May 28, 2024 5:44 am


Originally Posted by thomas164 (Post 36264346)
Just curious why would CX mind pissing off UA?

since Lam has taken over his goal has been to actively hand over market share to competitors and weaken HK's position in Asia.

Launching EWR would go against this strategy.

as others here have suggested,all other major world airlines don't know what they are doing . The CX strategy of reduced flights to global high GDP cities like NYC- CDG, London etc so they can launch flights to Riyadh is the more financially sound decision.

moondog May 28, 2024 6:05 am


Originally Posted by NZflyer777 (Post 36264471)
since Lam has taken over his goal has been to actively hand over market share to competitors and weaken HK's position in Asia.

Launching EWR would go against this strategy.

as others here have suggested,all other major world airlines don't know what they are doing . The CX strategy of reduced flights to global high GDP cities like NYC- CDG, London etc so they can launch flights to Riyadh is the more financially sound decision.

While I agree that United is "world carrier", I did not mean to suggest that it "knows what it's doing".

Rather, it will exercise its corporate responsibility to protect its hub airports.

Furthermore, there is a near zero chance that CX will venture into this battle.

CarefreeBA May 28, 2024 6:12 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 36260769)
Allow me to put this simply:
1) HKG-JFK is the golden cow
2) HKG-MNL is useful, but not important
3) Making special arrangements to optimize connections between 1 and 2 would be a boneheaded decision

HKG-MNL is useful and important. The HK-PH market is huge and the US/CA-PH market is also huge.

Of course, it would not be ideal to optimise connections for one specific flight but I can assure you that it is to a lot of people's advantage that these flights are conveniently timed.


Originally Posted by VE105 (Post 36264321)
I remember IAD performed poorly even before Covid hit......as for EWR, I don't see there is urgency for its relaunch when CX is still sending 359 to JFK...
Same goes to LGW, there is still quite some room for CX to increase capacity to LHR (frequency, replace 35G by 77K), LGW should only comes back when LHR is back to 6 77A/77K per day and still couldn't cope with the demand.

Exactly. The fact is... LHR can do with a 6th or 7th during peak times. The market is massive and full of pretty much every passenger kind as well as connecting traffic. However slots at a London airport are hard to come by and it's a matter of balancing the peak and non-peak times. Fares from Europe to Asia are, compared to pre-COVID, still quite high. I imagine CX are inclined to maintain these high(er) fares whilst the market is still at this point (for reference... sub £400 fares from LHR-HKG were not infrequent in 2019).


Originally Posted by NZflyer777 (Post 36264471)
since Lam has taken over his goal has been to actively hand over market share to competitors and weaken HK's position in Asia.

Launching EWR would go against this strategy.

as others here have suggested,all other major world airlines don't know what they are doing . The CX strategy of reduced flights to global high GDP cities like NYC- CDG, London etc so they can launch flights to Riyadh is the more financially sound decision.

Well yes..., market share is being handed over to competitors because CX doesn't have a full schedule operating yet. If you only have 80% of planes operating, on average, and the market size is already full recovered (and growing) then sods law dictates that those travellers are going to go elsewhere if CX flights are already full. Why would an airline lower its fares if they can fill at flight at the current price?

As for Riyadh, well remember that a NYC rotation takes 16hrs + 3hrs (minimum) turnaround + 16hrs back = 35hrs, in which you could operate 2 Riyadh rotations. So again, resources.

The strategy is evident. Get people, build up their schedule and once there's supply, they will see demand coming.

peasant May 28, 2024 7:29 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 36264359)
1. IAD and EWR are UA hubs
2. UA doesn't like the fact that other airlines utilize Russian airspace
3; Legally speaking, CX could fly to EWR, but doing so would invoke things like closed gates and/or runways

Air India added flights using Russian airspace to EWR/ SFO/ JFK with no closed gates or runways. Think you are overestimating an airline’s influence over an airport.


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