Given it's home base this had better be the case!

My favourite Chinese dish in F is not the main courses - it's the claypot rice with a meat patty and choy sum that is offered on trans-Pacific F, with a bowl of clear soup. Now that's real comfort food, and is hard to beat in the middle of a 16 hour flight. Haven't done this in over a year so I wonder if it's still on the menu.

The comment that The Pier competes with LH FCT is hyperbole. Don't get me wrong, I like The Pier - except for the fact that it lacks an equivalent of The Wing's Cabanas.

However, when compared to LH FCT, there's just no comparison. It's like saying that a Lexus competes with a Maybach for luxury. The Pier or for that matter The Wing lacks the personal greeting and dedicated pax attendants that LH provides at the FCT. F&B at FCT is far superior and I believe that The Pier's catering provider will soon change so it remains to be seen whether quality at The Pier Dining Room will improve, remain the same or decline. Even the snacks at FCT are better. Of course LH provides the cigar room and the duckies too.

That is also my fav part of F experience on North American route. Sadly, this has been gone since Feb of this year!

Maybe because I am not HKG based so I can't agree with your view here. To me HKG is one of those mega-airports that takes forever to walk within it. So I looked it up and found that perhaps your statement is lacking in facts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...senger_traffic

HKG is slightly busier than BKK and much busier than FRA based on annual passenger volume. Despite being a smaller airport, LH @ FRA offers private and personal BMW car service (not a "buggy") with a dedicated professional driver unlike EK's glorified bus service. On my most recent LH flight just a few days ago, my intra-EU short hop arrived at FRA parked far from a gate. My private car was already waiting for me where the plane parked so as soon as the FA opened the cabin door, the driver informed the FA and I was immediately escorted to deplane ahead of anyone else, including other Business class pax. The funny part is, just before the FA opened the cabin door, she informed everyone that we needed to wait on board because our bus has yet to arrive. So the bus has not arrived yet but the private car is already waiting, the signal that it sent is quite obvious. This private car service, btw, is available to all Hon Circle members regardless which class of service they travel. AF offers similar car service but theirs is not a professional driver but your personal attendant, who is usually a female who not only has to escort you but perform many other tasks including driving. I personally like LH's arrangement a lot better. Whether it's CDG or FRA, the cost of hiring a professional driver is a lot more than HKG because HKG has a lot of cheap foreign labor like the Gulf region yet CX can't even offer such service to make premium or high status pax's connection via HKG more comfortable.



I would wholeheartedly agree with these points. It may look like I am nitpicking on CX Premium experience but that does not mean I think lowly of CX F overall.

Quite a few airlines keep toothbrushes in their F/J bathroom. It just makes sense since it would be reasonable to assume F/J pax are civilized patrons who actually brush their teeth on long-haul flights. Distribution of amenity kit doesn't always happen early during the actual flying experience, that varies on a per flight basis even within the same airline. Some are waiting for you at your seat upon entering, others were personally delivered later, at which point sometimes pax will choose the amenity kit of the opposite sex for X reasons. To be sure, I never noticed if CX has tooth brushes in their bathroom since I carry my own. But there are good reasons why you want to stock them in your bathroom and make them plainly visible as opposed to putting one in the pax's amenity kit. It's little details like this, the lack of, that makes CX looks more like an unpolished mainland Chinese carrier at times.

In other news, if I randomly ask 10 people on the streets of Pyongyang, I am positive all of them will tell me North Korea is the best country in the world.

CX ground service is one of the low points of its overall experience because it is very, very inconsistent. The consistency among staff is low as it ranges from downright awful to very good. Some of the ground personnel in HKG are either so unhappy at their job or their life is just miserable, therefore, they need to make sure their customers feel the same. On the other hand, there are plenty of staff who are more than good. It's however difficult to overlook those bad apples since ground staff consistency tends to be a lot better among CX's competitors, for example, JL or BR. In the air, CX staff service is excellent and fairly consistent overall but unfortunately, flying also requires some ground travel. I will qualify that the bad apples tend to be found outside of the CX F lounges, not in it. Still, the service culture at CX really could use some Japanese or even Taiwanese influence.

The best F product? No way in hell. Among the top 10 in the world? I can agree with that. Personally, I never had a bad experience in the air with CX in F or J. CX and KA J are still one of the very best regional J in my view but when it comes to long-haul service and especially F, that's where CX needs to improve or non-HKG based customers risk to vote with their wallet and CX can't survive with just the support of HKG based customers.


That's a fair assessment I think.

I think this is mostly true with a couple of caveats: There are always notable exceptions and JL F catering ex-Tokyo can't be bought with just a "few hundred dollars". Salon alone will set you back by more than that, not including the Michelin 3 Stars chef.

Agreed

The list actually goes quite a bit longer than just the two you mentioned but some of our CX "comrades" are unwaveringly faithful as the North Koreans' in their belief of their great nation.

Agreed, however I will say that JL more than makes up for it by providing you with personal escort service when necessary even outside of Japan.

This is true of all airlines.

That's not what I meant.

I think that may very well be the case and I will also note it will be hard to remain asleep most of the time on your 13 hours+ flights to North America, so like it or not, the other aspects other sleeping have to come into play.


You guessed correctly but it isn't exactly **new**.

Depends on where you are going, that can be said of any carrier and any combination of flights.

It has a privacy wall that can be raised or lower at will on the touch of a button at your seat. All those "comrades" (not you) crying CX F is more private than QR F really cracked me up. There is nothing private about CX F. In fact, I remember distinctly once that 3 of the 6 CX F seats were occupied by 3 American teenagers traveling as a group. They were loud and overly enthusiastic which was very disturbing to the rest of the cabin. You should have seen the CX FA in F and the flight's in charge's face that day, they tried so hard to remain polite but can barely contain their disgust, with reasons though. All I had to was to turn my face by 90 degree in my seated position and here they are, all 3 of them getting up and down like they are having a party. That was a CX F in B777 for you. So what privacy, I must ask of the seasoned CX flyers? There wasn't any. At least on the QR A380, you can "encourage" them to go here instead:



Let them have their party at the bar.

Not going to argue with that

The intent was to compare the frontal view of QR F vs. CX F as a pax would see in a seated position looking forward, the scenery is undoubtedly a lot more pleasing among many other carriers vs. CX F.

The fact the Pier is accessible to all OWE is an issue, it does lower the exclusive factor that other top lounges have. But who says competition or comparison is fair? Just making the point that it pales in comparison to many other more exclusive lounges in the world.

I am confused. Do you make a point of asking your fellow F pax how much or what they paid for their seat? Otherwise, why would partner redemption bother you since you can't possibly know that "vast availability of CX F is redeemed by partners"?


I happen to enjoy a vast number of international variety, especially those I can't normally or easily access.

Last week, I had the misfortune of going to the Wing (F section) thinking that my flight would leave near there. Horror, the a la carte menu was just downright bad and the buffet section, no words for them. Food quality in the Wing has gone downhill so much, and 2015 isn't over yet. It seems as though with the Pier re-opening, the Wing has become the secondary F lounge, not the other way around.

I think BR and CI would disagree with you but to each of their own.

Precisely why you should refrain from passing on judgement based on "what you read" instead of actually flying the product. Who is going to take cabin pictures with the privacy walls raised up? That's why the pictures you saw seemed open, well, because that was the plan - open.


FYI, the LH Lounge pictures I posted earlier were not from the FCT. I thought I clearly labelled them as LH F Lounge, even marked their airport location to be clear but I guess it's not clear enough for some people. There is nothing more I can do if some people just won't read properly. And no the Pier doesn't compete, not even remotely. LH is one of those airlines that keep a close eye on its competitors - I am frankly consistently amazed by the German smart and intelligence even after all these years - the grilled lobster a la carte presented exquisitely served with pea mousseline and lobster foam was in response to AF offering Alain Ducasse menu in their CDG La Premi�re lounge, so it was an attempt to outdo the French. It should also be noted the dining service was staffed by a professional Italian waiter who spoke multiple languages. There are waiters in the Pier and the Wing but clearly, they are not in the same league as the professional European waiters, this is to put it nicely.

You should try out the Aromatic Steam Shower in FRA in the same LH F lounge I mentioned earlier, quite interesting I must say. The shower has an aroma button that you can toggle on and off and it is large enough for two people to be in it and has in fact two seats. Now, I don't know if the Spa attendants would actually let two people in at the same time...haven't tried it with someone else, yet.

The Wing has gone downhill so much I would be hesitant to bring it up in any conversation, especially not as a way to market CX premium service. The Pier is the future face of CX F, there is no doubt about it and with it, bye bye cabanas.

There is nothing private about CX F on B777. This myth ought to be debunked for good.

Given how often CX switches gates even at the last minute, it is difficult at times to navigate HKG, which in my opinion, is a mega airport with excessively long walking time. Not all of us are used to walk as fast as the Hong Kong residents, where fast walking is apparently a requirement to live in the city.

Don't go to the Wing, you will be underwhelmed. The Pier is newer, has more extensive a la carte menu and overall, much more presentable.

[

Clearly, the bells and whistles worth something since that's why the ME3 are doing so well. If only CX does the basics well, then I can agree with you. Except even that is not always the case. It can start by doing the basic homework well, for instance, making sure toothbrushes are available in all its bathrooms, I don't think that's too much to ask. If you must know, many other airlines master the basics better than CX and have moved on to more delicate details like one who offers the highly exclusive La Prairie line of products in its F bathrooms.

That was sort of my point. CX First regulars really don't want or need the "bling" of the ME3. Survey after survey that CPA has done has shown this. We want quiet, calm, refined services on a wide as possible route network. I don't need CX to offer me La Prairie in the bathroom - a) because I have it in my vanity case already b) because I prefer SKII.

They don't make the Maybach anymore....just saying

Ah the famous CX surveys. You mean like the ones that purported show CX economy class pax would prefer 10 seats per row for supposedly "better catering", if one can believe such promise? Really, who is going to be fooled by these "surveys"? Or perhaps you mean all those **surveys** that airlines use to "enhance" the FFP benefits away?

I know someone who recently flew CX economy from the U.S. to HKG, his size is quite big so the 12 hours+ squeeze in a middle seat on a 9 seats row was painful already. When I mentioned CX is going to switch to 10 seats / row based on some purported customer surveys, his response was that would be the end of CX for him. I also know many people in this forum said the same thing. So are the surveys wrong or maybe they weren't actually "surveys" after all?

Oh bless. I'm not sure what Y passengers have to do with F pax but hey ho I'm sure CX will be sorry to lose that discount bucket promotional eco fan fare passenger. Look, CX is a business. A fantastically well run business. It is consistently among the most reliably profitable airlines in the world and will continue to be despite your "friend" shifting his business elsewhere.

As for FFP enhancements - I'm all for them. Bring them on. The less mileage pax in my F cabin the happier I'll be.

Wow the horse is being beaten dead on this one (and being run over repeatedly.)

I think everyone can agree that CX F is a solid product. It might be the best for you because you live in HKG, you might like Chinese food or it's the fastest way to get from point A to B (which is the purpose of travel for most normal people), which is fair enough. Those are important considerations which definitely tip the balance on what is the "best product" for you. I personally am not a huge fan of suite products since I don't like the boxed in feeling - I like a half-open concept where one can enjoy the space and raise a privacy shield when desired (a la LH or QR A380 F.) I'm not sold on the idea my feet have to go into a cubby since I sleep with my legs sprawled out. But that's personal.

But if you remove personal considerations aside, there are definitely piece by piece elements that different airlines do better. For instance, it's hard to dispute LH excels at their ground service or that JL has amazing catering ex-HND/NRT. Every F product I've tried has had its high and weak points - I have yet to find the one who does everything perfectly on a consistent basis.

(There is nothing private about CX F on B777. This myth ought to be debunked for good. )

All other 777 F have a 1-2-1 configuration compared to 1-1-1 on Cathay. Not sure but i definitely consider that more private especially the first aisle on cathay 777 since on seats 1a and 2 a are meant to be served by that aisle.

How you think an open seating in a QR F 380 on 1 -2 -1 is more private I am not sure. I have flown both and there is no comparison

etihad apartments/sq suites and the other closed suites like ANA, Emirates are more private but i don't find any non suites more private than cx 777

Been to the LH FCT and FCL. They dont have the size and privacy or the day bed ()) that the cabanas have. aroma be dammed ) Two people can go into the cabanas and they let you take drinks in there

Yes and no. Maybach was discontinued by Daimler AG in 2012-2013 but the brand has been re-launched with the Mercedes-Maybach S600.

https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehic...-S/model-S600X

I agree.

I just find it ironic that I've experienced a marked decline in CX F as well as CX J that for me coincided with the launch of the #lifewelltravelled marketing campaign. I have had great and awful CX experiences this year. There are times - especially as a DM - where I feel it's Cathay Fantastic. Alas, in the past year there have been too many times where I feel its more Cathay Pathetic. I still fly enough to retain DM status but I've shifted some business to other carriers.

Also noted that with around 5 years of flying CX J and F as mostly DM. It's definitely a great product for me, but the quality has been going downhill.

I quite welcome the recent MPO change since it has changed to my favor. But I do wish the management could stop their cost reduction way of thinking. It's an easy but stupid way to achieve short term profitability widely used by their failing US counterparts.

First...that was one HECK of a post! WOW and kudos.

Second, no I am very aware of the pax throughput #s at global airports. I think perhaps I didn't make my point clear. At FRA or BKK or some other less efficient airports, if you are not and elite or premium passenger, you can get totally screwed. Connecting at other less efficient airports - CDG and LHR comes to mind - can be a nightmare between two carriers. In particular at less efficient airpoorts security and immigration (both inbound at outbound) can be a real pain. Again, I'm speaking to pax without some type of premium, elite, etc. access.

Whereas at HKIA, the baseline for anyone - including non-elite/premium status is already very, very high. So my point is about the fact the airport is already quite efficiently laid out. My personal opinion here, but for me it isn't as necessary for CX to have fancy ground services due to the significantly higher (IMO) base of ground services and efficiency HKIA already offers everybody. So let's say FRA basic (non premium, non elite) passenger experience baseline is a 2/10. Of course this is subjective, but that's what I'd rate it. But if you get to use the LH F terminal, the experience becomes a 10/10. So you have a +8 in value points due to the FCT. Whereas at HKIA, I feel like it is already a 7.5/10 even for non-elite, non-status pax. Again, talking about passenger experience..lines at security, immigration, etc. So if CX were to build a FCT, they get +2.5 points of value in my opinion. Of course these scores are subjective. If you were to rate the baseline FRA experience a 8/10 and HKIA a 7/10, clearly we will come to a very different conclusion.

Finally, I suppose you're entitled to your own opinion about HKIA, but I personally struggle to find a more efficient and reliable airport than HKIA. It is indeed my home airport these days, and I know others indeed fly quite more than me, but I at least am on the road a bit, somewhere from 65-120 flights annually for the past 8 years. So I do see and transit a fair number of airports. At HKIA, if you are walking, my longest transit from South Immigration/Security is 15 minutes (out to gate 69). Sadly, I have timed this. If you take the train, it gets cut down to ~8-11 minutes depending how long you wait for the train. I am a middle-aged average sized male without any health problems so of course, folks with different health conditions may take longer. The other thing I love about HKIA is how predictable my schedule can get due to the efficiency of the Airport Express. In an extreme situation, I have caught a flight on the hour (say, 5pm) by taking the Airport Express departing 1 hour earlier (aka, 4pm). Obviously no bags to check, I have HKID. But This is pretty impressive considering CX offers no special immigration and security privileges. I routinely will take the Airport Express 1 hour 20 minutes before departure. That, to me is very impressive! And no FCT to boot.

Finally, there is the tarmac drive situation. I do enjoy being driven to/from the flight on the tarmac, but being honest you can get this service at many global airports if you know where to look. And I don't care what type of car it is. Ironically, however at HKIA, it is quite annoying to drive to the tarmac because you'd have to first drive over to CX City or the private terminal, then switch to the car or bus, and drive from there to the commercial gates. The ride is long! I've actually done this before (alas, not as a departing passenger but for another reason), it had to be over 10 minutes due to the southern location of CX City / private terminal / etc. Looooong. IME, it would be faster to just go through the main commercial terminal, haul azz, and go through the regular old jetbridge.

Actually, I do know some people that have switched to CX (and even UA!) thanks to AC switching to 10 across in Y.
Now, the type of fare buyers they attract are the ones paying CAD 800-900 to HKG/BKK/MNL r/t from YVR.
(and some of the people that have switched to CX have actually been happy to pay the bit extra.)