Oct 2, 2015, 3:08 am
Last edit by: sxc
Related threads:
What are the best value segments under the new system?
Switching out of Marco Polo: What do you choose and why?
FAQs as answered by AgencyGuy:
When will the mid-tier benefits be awarded?
They will be awarded as the member hits the mid-tier milestone. Not at the end of the membership year. These will be valid for a year commencing the day they are granted. No points are deduced when members are awarded these benefits.
Does that mean a member reaching 1800 tier points will get all three mid-tier benefits?
Yes, each benefit will be made available as the member hits the 1400, 1600 and 1800 point milestones
What mid-tier benefits will be awarded as of the conversion date of 15 April 2016?
The mid-tier benefits will kick in automatically after 15th April, if your converted club points balance exceeds the mid-tier thresholds. So for a Diamond tier member, if your converted balance is 1800 points you will immediately have access to two first class lounge guest passes, four bookable upgrades and one companion Gold card.
A Gold member on his/her way to Diamond pick up four short/medium upgrades along the way, but a renewing Diamond gets nothing?
You are correct, Silver, Gold or Diamond members on their way to renewal, don’t get additional benefits until they reach the mid-tier thresholds. But they will get there, I guess the benefits are designed to recognize members who go the extra mile after they have passed their renewal thresholds.
Is there any requirement on the underlying booking sub-classes when using a mid-tier upgrade "coupon"?
Yes, the original flight needs to be booked in an “upgradable” sub-class, the same sub-classes that qualify for Asia Miles upgrades
Is economy upgraded to Premium Economy or business for flights with Premium Economy?
It is always a one class upgrade so Economy to Premium Economy, if a flight does not have Premium Economy then the upgrade is to Business.
Are the sub-classes for the upgraded bookings A, I, and E (if applicable)?
I don’t know what these subclasses are yet other than that they will be revenue instead of redemption sub-classes. I guess they will be announced later.
What miles will be awarded for a flight upgraded using a upgrade coupon? The original ticket class, or the upgraded class?
I understand that both points and miles will be credited based on the upgraded class.
Green Re-Qualification
For Green members, if their membership year ends before 15 April 2016, like now, their membership will automatically be renewed. If their membership ends after 15 April and they have ANY club points at that time, they will be automatically renewed for another year (even if they are below 100 pts). If their membership ends after 15 April and they have no club points at that time, they will lose their Green membership or have the option of paying the US$100 fee to renew.
What are the best value segments under the new system?
Switching out of Marco Polo: What do you choose and why?
FAQs as answered by AgencyGuy:
When will the mid-tier benefits be awarded?
They will be awarded as the member hits the mid-tier milestone. Not at the end of the membership year. These will be valid for a year commencing the day they are granted. No points are deduced when members are awarded these benefits.
Does that mean a member reaching 1800 tier points will get all three mid-tier benefits?
Yes, each benefit will be made available as the member hits the 1400, 1600 and 1800 point milestones
What mid-tier benefits will be awarded as of the conversion date of 15 April 2016?
The mid-tier benefits will kick in automatically after 15th April, if your converted club points balance exceeds the mid-tier thresholds. So for a Diamond tier member, if your converted balance is 1800 points you will immediately have access to two first class lounge guest passes, four bookable upgrades and one companion Gold card.
A Gold member on his/her way to Diamond pick up four short/medium upgrades along the way, but a renewing Diamond gets nothing?
You are correct, Silver, Gold or Diamond members on their way to renewal, don’t get additional benefits until they reach the mid-tier thresholds. But they will get there, I guess the benefits are designed to recognize members who go the extra mile after they have passed their renewal thresholds.
Is there any requirement on the underlying booking sub-classes when using a mid-tier upgrade "coupon"?
Yes, the original flight needs to be booked in an “upgradable” sub-class, the same sub-classes that qualify for Asia Miles upgrades
Is economy upgraded to Premium Economy or business for flights with Premium Economy?
It is always a one class upgrade so Economy to Premium Economy, if a flight does not have Premium Economy then the upgrade is to Business.
Are the sub-classes for the upgraded bookings A, I, and E (if applicable)?
I don’t know what these subclasses are yet other than that they will be revenue instead of redemption sub-classes. I guess they will be announced later.
What miles will be awarded for a flight upgraded using a upgrade coupon? The original ticket class, or the upgraded class?
I understand that both points and miles will be credited based on the upgraded class.
Green Re-Qualification
For Green members, if their membership year ends before 15 April 2016, like now, their membership will automatically be renewed. If their membership ends after 15 April and they have ANY club points at that time, they will be automatically renewed for another year (even if they are below 100 pts). If their membership ends after 15 April and they have no club points at that time, they will lose their Green membership or have the option of paying the US$100 fee to renew.
Changes to MPC announced for 15 Apr 2016
Oct 27, 2016, 7:57 am
#901
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
To the question above, I'm not sure how many miles but it's something like 8x CX long-hauls, 4x other OW longhauls, a number of CX and other OW medium hauls, and a bunch of CX, KA and other OW short hauls. Everything in J and F except a few of the short hauls. Ive "paid" for a few of these flights with miles, fyi so they don't accrue status. This also doesn't count some other flights I've recently taken non-OW, like SQ and BR.
Someone raised a great point about taking lounge access away for DMs when flying other carriers, no I class / V class guaranteed seat benefit, I'll also add atrocious award availability and nothing special. For Diamonds, we really are getting "less" extra if we're already booked in J and F. And as pointed out countless times above, the new Diamond qualifications skew heavily towards J and F members now. I hadn't thought about this before but once again FT gives words to my feelings. I was flying on both Bangkok Airways and Eva Airways recently, and would've loved to have used the Pier J. I guess CX isn't too thrilled with me flying BR to Taipei and beyond, but they don't even fly to Koh Samui.... it's not like they're losing business from me. Taking away that benefit we had seems unnecessary. Especially since if lounges are crowded, I doubt this is the cohort (DMs flying other non-OW airlines crowding it).
Someone raised a great point about taking lounge access away for DMs when flying other carriers, no I class / V class guaranteed seat benefit, I'll also add atrocious award availability and nothing special. For Diamonds, we really are getting "less" extra if we're already booked in J and F. And as pointed out countless times above, the new Diamond qualifications skew heavily towards J and F members now. I hadn't thought about this before but once again FT gives words to my feelings. I was flying on both Bangkok Airways and Eva Airways recently, and would've loved to have used the Pier J. I guess CX isn't too thrilled with me flying BR to Taipei and beyond, but they don't even fly to Koh Samui.... it's not like they're losing business from me. Taking away that benefit we had seems unnecessary. Especially since if lounges are crowded, I doubt this is the cohort (DMs flying other non-OW airlines crowding it).
Oct 27, 2016, 8:13 pm
#902
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SYD | HGH
Programs: CX DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,121
Is CX Winning in my mum's case
My mum lives in HGH and I lives in SYD, she loves to come to visit me couple of times a year. I used to get her fly 3 times a year, return trip with CX-KA and she has been qualified for SL for several years. Her time is flexible and always booked in V. She enjoys the extra leg room seat and lounge access.
With the current system, she needs 4.5 return trip to qualify SL, which is basically impossible. I got her flying 3 RT in V class and 1 RT in E class to just able to keep her SL for next year. BUT, she doesn't like it.
She doesn't like traveling that often at age of 65 and she doesn't like the price tag of PEY.
She prefers to travel only twice a year (I got her flying 3 times for her status and she listened, but not double her travel plan).
She prefers direct flight over transit, I convinced her that CX/KA got better schedule and I could some times fly together with her and she listened.
She will be flying another year with CX, maybe with S class....
What CX saves by get rid of loyal flyers like my mum (CX was the only carrier I booked for her for the last 6 years):
- 6 CX lounge visits at HKG
- 6 lounge visits outstation
- 12 extra legroom seats allocation
- 60kg extra luggage (she hardly use half of it)
What CX loses is simple:
- $3000 AUD airfare per year.
For someone flies 5 times RT between HKG SYD a year in Y, could only barely make the lowest frequent flyer tier, sounds like a joke to me....
With the current system, she needs 4.5 return trip to qualify SL, which is basically impossible. I got her flying 3 RT in V class and 1 RT in E class to just able to keep her SL for next year. BUT, she doesn't like it.
She doesn't like traveling that often at age of 65 and she doesn't like the price tag of PEY.
She prefers to travel only twice a year (I got her flying 3 times for her status and she listened, but not double her travel plan).
She prefers direct flight over transit, I convinced her that CX/KA got better schedule and I could some times fly together with her and she listened.
She will be flying another year with CX, maybe with S class....
What CX saves by get rid of loyal flyers like my mum (CX was the only carrier I booked for her for the last 6 years):
- 6 CX lounge visits at HKG
- 6 lounge visits outstation
- 12 extra legroom seats allocation
- 60kg extra luggage (she hardly use half of it)
What CX loses is simple:
- $3000 AUD airfare per year.
For someone flies 5 times RT between HKG SYD a year in Y, could only barely make the lowest frequent flyer tier, sounds like a joke to me....
Oct 27, 2016, 8:42 pm
#903
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Would she be better off looking at other routings to SYD? Maybe via Seoul if she wants to avoid a Chinese airline. Or via Singapore connecting to SQ? And maybe there are better status opportunities with these other airlines.
And as I noted above, this falls into the "Too hard...I give up and fly anything" category, where CX now loses ALL the revenue of this person.
And as I noted above, this falls into the "Too hard...I give up and fly anything" category, where CX now loses ALL the revenue of this person.
Oct 27, 2016, 8:44 pm
#904
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Oct 27, 2016, 8:53 pm
#905
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
What CX saves by get rid of loyal flyers like my mum (CX was the only carrier I booked for her for the last 6 years):
- 6 CX lounge visits at HKG
- 6 lounge visits outstation
- 12 extra legroom seats allocation
- 60kg extra luggage (she hardly use half of it)
What CX loses is simple:
- $3000 AUD airfare per year.
For someone flies 5 times RT between HKG SYD a year in Y, could only barely make the lowest frequent flyer tier, sounds like a joke to me....
- 6 CX lounge visits at HKG
- 6 lounge visits outstation
- 12 extra legroom seats allocation
- 60kg extra luggage (she hardly use half of it)
What CX loses is simple:
- $3000 AUD airfare per year.
For someone flies 5 times RT between HKG SYD a year in Y, could only barely make the lowest frequent flyer tier, sounds like a joke to me....
I could be wrong, but looking at HGH-SYD prices, cheapo economy is about 4k RMB (~$590 USD). V class economy prices around 6k RMB (~$885 USD). The real difference is about $300 USD per flight. I think you're referring to 3x round-trips above, so the real "cost" to CX is about $900 USD, not $2200 USD (ie $3000 AUD). It's still material but not as much as you imply.
The reason I think this is a fairer analysis is that you must assume cheapo economy (S, N, O, whatever) is going to fill up 100% - those prices are generally market clearing bare bones fares. This is CX's strategy as they've made painfully clear to all of us...fill up the back at whatever price they'll sell at. So the real "cost" to CX is the difference between cheapo economy (N, O, S, whatever) and a more "normal" economy fare like V.
Honestly, just a quick browse through CX fares from China to Sydney, and premium economy is very reasonable, at about 7.5k RMB (~1100 USD).
Its true, the customer base who loses in the new schematic are indeed Y fliers. But the people who get really hosed are Y class and PEY class fliers based in HKG. Fliers based in the US, China, and other locations have seen their average economy class and PEY class fares plummet on CX over the last few years. This is absolutely a benefit, even if you don't like it or it's not your first choice.
I've seen some outport complaints here regarding Y and PEY pax who have lost status, and are (understandably) angry. But I think some of this vitriol is misplaced. The silver lining is outport passengers flying CX, particularly Y and PEY, have at least benefited from extremely cheap fares. Now, those passengers may be angry because the "option" of status is basically taken away unless they fly J. But the fares are darn cheap, just looking at these insanely cheap ex-HGH fares to Sydney is making my head spin as someone primarily flying ex-HKG. Ex-HKG fliers are just in a different league with their justification for complaining about MPC. Because the people who really get smoked in the new system are these ex-HKG fliers: whose Y and PEY fares haven't dropped by the same amount, yet they are worse off for status. At least the ex-outport fliers have the cheapo fares. Yes, it's somewhat forced on you, but ex-HKG fliers it's just a lose-lose.
Oct 27, 2016, 8:58 pm
#906
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SYD | HGH
Programs: CX DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,121
I hear your sentiments but think your analysis is wrong. You're forgetting that CX is going to sell that seat your mom is forgoing.
I could be wrong, but looking at HGH-SYD prices, cheapo economy is about 4k RMB (~$590 USD). V class economy prices around 6k RMB (~$885 USD). The real difference is about $300 USD per flight. I think you're referring to 3x round-trips above, so the real "cost" to CX is about $900 USD, not $2200 USD (ie $3000 AUD). It's still material but not as much as you imply.
The reason I think this is a fairer analysis is that you must assume cheapo economy (S, N, O, whatever) is going to fill up 100% - those prices are generally market clearing bare bones fares. This is CX's strategy as they've made painfully clear to all of us...fill up the back at whatever price they'll sell at. So the real "cost" to CX is the difference between cheapo economy (N, O, S, whatever) and a more "normal" economy fare like V.
Honestly, just a quick browse through CX fares from China to Sydney, and premium economy is very reasonable, at about 7.5k RMB (~1100 USD).
Its true, the customer base who loses in the new schematic are indeed Y fliers. But the people who get really hosed are Y class and PEY class fliers based in HKG. Fliers based in the US, China, and other locations have seen their average economy class and PEY class fares plummet on CX over the last few years. This is absolutely a benefit, even if you don't like it or it's not your first choice.
I've seen some outport complaints here regarding Y and PEY pax who have lost status, and are (understandably) angry. But I think some of this vitriol is misplaced. The silver lining is outport passengers flying CX, particularly Y and PEY, have at least benefited from extremely cheap fares. Now, those passengers may be angry because the "option" of status is basically taken away unless they fly J. But the fares are darn cheap, just looking at these insanely cheap ex-HGH fares to Sydney is making my head spin as someone primarily flying ex-HKG. Ex-HKG fliers are just in a different league with their justification for complaining about MPC. Because the people who really get smoked in the new system are these ex-HKG fliers: whose Y and PEY fares haven't dropped by the same amount, yet they are worse off for status. At least the ex-outport fliers have the cheapo fares. Yes, it's somewhat forced on you, but ex-HKG fliers it's just a lose-lose.
I could be wrong, but looking at HGH-SYD prices, cheapo economy is about 4k RMB (~$590 USD). V class economy prices around 6k RMB (~$885 USD). The real difference is about $300 USD per flight. I think you're referring to 3x round-trips above, so the real "cost" to CX is about $900 USD, not $2200 USD (ie $3000 AUD). It's still material but not as much as you imply.
The reason I think this is a fairer analysis is that you must assume cheapo economy (S, N, O, whatever) is going to fill up 100% - those prices are generally market clearing bare bones fares. This is CX's strategy as they've made painfully clear to all of us...fill up the back at whatever price they'll sell at. So the real "cost" to CX is the difference between cheapo economy (N, O, S, whatever) and a more "normal" economy fare like V.
Honestly, just a quick browse through CX fares from China to Sydney, and premium economy is very reasonable, at about 7.5k RMB (~1100 USD).
Its true, the customer base who loses in the new schematic are indeed Y fliers. But the people who get really hosed are Y class and PEY class fliers based in HKG. Fliers based in the US, China, and other locations have seen their average economy class and PEY class fares plummet on CX over the last few years. This is absolutely a benefit, even if you don't like it or it's not your first choice.
I've seen some outport complaints here regarding Y and PEY pax who have lost status, and are (understandably) angry. But I think some of this vitriol is misplaced. The silver lining is outport passengers flying CX, particularly Y and PEY, have at least benefited from extremely cheap fares. Now, those passengers may be angry because the "option" of status is basically taken away unless they fly J. But the fares are darn cheap, just looking at these insanely cheap ex-HGH fares to Sydney is making my head spin as someone primarily flying ex-HKG. Ex-HKG fliers are just in a different league with their justification for complaining about MPC. Because the people who really get smoked in the new system are these ex-HKG fliers: whose Y and PEY fares haven't dropped by the same amount, yet they are worse off for status. At least the ex-outport fliers have the cheapo fares. Yes, it's somewhat forced on you, but ex-HKG fliers it's just a lose-lose.
My mum will not be flying CX after next year, when she is no longer a SL, there are so many Chinese carrier offer sub USD $600 fare almost all year round and she could have direct flights. She also speaks Chinese only and she prefers those main land carriers over CX. The change of MPC actually forced my mum to fly with someone else.
Oct 27, 2016, 9:16 pm
#907
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
My mum will not be flying CX after next year, when she is no longer a SL, there are so many Chinese carrier offer sub USD $600 fare almost all year round and she could have direct flights. She also speaks Chinese only and she prefers those main land carriers over CX. The change of MPC actually forced my mum to fly with someone else.
But agree in principle that CX will have to find a market clearing price which is acceptable to enough mainland Chinese passengers to fill up whatever bucket of seats the CX bean counters decide is correct for that city pair. This could mean dropping prices further if enough people like your mom are jumping ship to the nonstop flights offered by mainland carriers.
Oct 27, 2016, 11:06 pm
#908
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 1A
Programs: Elite Diamond Purple Dot Gold Silver Titanium for life
Posts: 1,822
Would she be better off looking at other routings to SYD? Maybe via Seoul if she wants to avoid a Chinese airline. Or via Singapore connecting to SQ? And maybe there are better status opportunities with these other airlines.
And as I noted above, this falls into the "Too hard...I give up and fly anything" category, where CX now loses ALL the revenue of this person.
And as I noted above, this falls into the "Too hard...I give up and fly anything" category, where CX now loses ALL the revenue of this person.
Let's not forget that CX enjoys high loads to Australia and is maxed out on allowed flights into the country. A few lost customers here, and there is no big deal.
I bring my parents to HKG 4-5 times a year from Australia and even though they could qualify for status, they both value non-stop flights over any other benefit. So now, I book them on the most comfortable direct service without a further thought.
It's important to remember loyalty isn't for everyone, and with your parents, personally, I find it's about their comfort, and all else is irrelevant.
Personally, I'd organise for a priority pass card for lounge on both ends and go with whatever airline she feels most comfortable flying.
Oct 28, 2016, 1:47 am
#910
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,053
Yes. Several such reports upthread and elsewhere. Do call in though and don't expect it to happen automatically. If they refuse, you can always ask for an extension and/or book a fully refundable ticket to show you will make DM
Oct 28, 2016, 2:54 am
#911
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SYD | HGH
Programs: CX DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,121
Fair points, although I'd counter that CX provides considerably better scheduling flexibility given the 3-4x daily HGH flights and 5x daily SYD flights (as well as MEL, BNE, PER ADL, etc.) ex HKG. Does HGH even have a nonstop to Australia? If so, I don't think it's daily right? I know PVG, XMN and FOC do, but both of those are either a connection or train ride away from Hangzhou.
But agree in principle that CX will have to find a market clearing price which is acceptable to enough mainland Chinese passengers to fill up whatever bucket of seats the CX bean counters decide is correct for that city pair. This could mean dropping prices further if enough people like your mom are jumping ship to the nonstop flights offered by mainland carriers.
But agree in principle that CX will have to find a market clearing price which is acceptable to enough mainland Chinese passengers to fill up whatever bucket of seats the CX bean counters decide is correct for that city pair. This could mean dropping prices further if enough people like your mom are jumping ship to the nonstop flights offered by mainland carriers.
The schedule is good and important for people like me, 4 x daily to HGH and 4x daily to SYD. However, for people like my mum, she wouldn't care. She fits her time into airline's schedule. HGH is having a direct 3x weekly MU service to SYD from Nov 2016. Airfare is on average $200 cheaper than CX, which is about CX's S fare class.
Well, yes, CX does provide a better service, but that's only true if she could keep her SL. And if she fell down to GR, what's the real difference?
Even when I fly day time flight with her in J, she doesn't use the IFE system at all.
Oct 28, 2016, 9:21 pm
#912
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, Marco Polo Gold
Posts: 1,084
The schedule is good and important for people like me, 4 x daily to HGH and 4x daily to SYD. However, for people like my mum, she wouldn't care. She fits her time into airline's schedule. HGH is having a direct 3x weekly MU service to SYD from Nov 2016. Airfare is on average $200 cheaper than CX, which is about CX's S fare class.
Well, yes, CX does provide a better service, but that's only true if she could keep her SL. And if she fell down to GR, what's the real difference?
Even when I fly day time flight with her in J, she doesn't use the IFE system at all.
Well, yes, CX does provide a better service, but that's only true if she could keep her SL. And if she fell down to GR, what's the real difference?
Even when I fly day time flight with her in J, she doesn't use the IFE system at all.
Oct 29, 2016, 1:35 am
#913
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SYD | HGH
Programs: CX DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,121
I don't know about the other side of the plane, but assuming your mom's case is the norm and not the exception, and assuming what I've observed from the F/C side is also true. It seems like the new program has made many people leave Cathay rather than retain them.
Even GO can get V class seats with 72 hours notice, that is amazing. I actually pushed my wife to be GO just because of that benefit so both of us could have the luxury to book last minute holiday trips.
I think CX should re-consider seat guarantee, not really V, I class. Now K, R, C are the lowest full point earning class, so a seat guarantee in those classes would drive people keep flying with them.
Oct 29, 2016, 6:32 am
#914
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: HKG, TXL
Programs: CX DM
Posts: 566
A question I've been asking myself lately about most FF programmes:
Can we really call them "frequent-flyer" programmes at all anymore? Surely, someone who flies 2 times F or 4 times J can't really be called a "frequent-flyer"... I'd change the names to "high-revenue-flyer" programmes instead.
This is something that amazes me a lot: The DYKWIA attitude of some occasional out-of-pocket or 2x a year on business J/F flyers who believe that a Y flyer that does 100000+ BIS miles should'nt be entitled to some sort of loyalty benefits.
Oct 29, 2016, 7:39 am
#915
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 11,017
Yes indeed, and they are certainly not "loyalty programmes"! I have been really very loyal to CX over the 17 years since I immigrated to HK; I was Diamond for 7 years in a row, but now I'm retired I find it very hard to see how CX repays that loyalty.
I suspect that the average "loyalty" of a CX senior manager being about 2 years has something to do with this - they simply don't understand the concept.
I suspect that the average "loyalty" of a CX senior manager being about 2 years has something to do with this - they simply don't understand the concept.