How exactly does CX Waitlist work for awards?
 

Unsure how CX Waitlist works with award travel.

Basically, I see 30+ seats available in J (revenue) for a flight on a particular date. However, CX Award is not available but Waitlist is.

CX allows you to transfer the miles and pay for the taxes for this Waitlist fare.

My questions:

1) How long are you "wait-listed" for? 24 hours prior to departure? If a seat does not become available, I assume your miles and fees are refunded.

2) How is the waitlist priority determined? Marco Polo status? Etc?


I ask because there are 4 daily flights from LAX > HKG in June but all show Waitlist for J awards - even though KVS shows 36+ available in revenue business class.

Any thoughts/opinions/strategies?


Thanks

0. What we can generally see is only up to J9 (9 or more available seats). We cannot tell if there are 30+ seats available. If you see 30+ unassigned seats on seat map, there may just be a few unassigned seats.
1. You can waitlist up to the ticketing deadline. CX will not deduct miles and charge fees at waitlist. So there is no need to refund.
2. Waitlist priority is in accordance with MPC status.

Not entirely sure of the exact query, but will give it a shot.

But first, how are you getting the 36+ business class seats available? a J9C9D9I9 just means that CX is willing to sell 9 seats at the each of those fare classes- just that.

Not necessarily mutually exclusive, and impacted by stuff like married segments and point of sale.
A single sale could, possibly, change things to J8C8D8I8, or something else.
Infact, in theory, there might be <9 seats left in the biz cabin and CX could still be showing J9C9D9I9. (though i would 'expect' all 9s to imply a relatively light loading, especially if F/PE/Y are light too)

Not sure about the bit about transferring the miles - are you moving miles from a partner into your Asiamiles account?

The way CX would work is to give you a deadline (possibly extendable) and if the waitlist clears by then, give you a bit of time to issue the ticket (and deduct the miles, charge the card). If you are looking at this online, you can make the waitlist reservation, and the page notes:

Asia Miles and taxes/fees/charges/carrier surcharges displayed above are for reference only. Asia Miles and taxes/fees/charges/carrier surcharges required will be quoted at the time of ticket issuance.

So go ahead and waitlist away!

You can waitlist with 0 miles. I did for a mate.


If not ticketed, up to 4 days before depature. Not ticketed = no miles debited, no taxes collected.

Ticketed (and trying to change flights by waitlisting) - I don't think there's a limit. Essentially til whenever CX stops ticketing for the flight.

Wiki http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...n-thread.html# "The order of upgrades when required is believed to be..."

Its revenue management. Sometimes some premium seats get released beyond expectations, but expect to wait maybe up to four days before depature only for nothing to show up.

If I don't have enough miles, how will I be contacted to know that I am successful and to transfer miles? I want to transfer from AMEX, but only if successful.

Are you a MPC member? MPC members can check on our account. I often get a call too. I don't know if that works for non MPC members.

Just a note - transfer from AMEX can take as short as a day and as long as about a week. (It used to be longer, and they may still be stating a longer time.) However, your miles must be available by the ticketing deadline.

Yes - MPC member. I'm just not in there every day, hence my concern.

Last month, I needed to postpone the final segment of a reward ticket which is due to fly 2 days later. I phoned MPC and was put on the waitlist. Few hours later, I got a SMS saying my flight was confirmed.

I also wonder how often does CX release additional reward seats?

You may get a call or SMS (as happened to me and other MPC members), but I suggest that you proactively check on it, especially as you have to transfer miles.

CX may occasionally release awards to MPC members upon requests. Back 6-7 years ago, I usually got awards released on the spot when I called MPC, although that hasn't been as easy the past few years.

There's always going to be some risks involved and you have to decide....do I want to put it on red or black?

Having said that, I would transfer the Amex points to CX. The rate isn't great but at least you'd have a better chance of it clearing.

With AA, if you wait last minute, your chances should be ok. Now, do you want to take that risk?

Related question, I have a specific flight I'd like to take (so as to be with another companion already booked on revenue) on CX. The award for the one way flight in economy is currently unavailable but it's in Feb 2016 so plenty of time left.

I have just enough AM to redeem, but would prefer to use BA Avios since it's only 4500 vs 10000 on AM. Can I still waitlist on AM and when the seat becomes available book it via BA? Will there be any email notification from CX about the availability, and can I at that point cancel the waitlist? I'm assuming based on the above I won't be charged cash or miles.

jix: Can, but the waitlist can only be redeemed by AM.

In order to redeeem it with Avios you're going to have to cancel the waitlist after it clears.

And the released seat may not necessarily be re-released for Avios.

Actually someone asked this recently in the AAdvantage CX partner redemptions thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post25423045

Thanks, curious if CX blocks award space for the first and last flight of the day? I've been checking on the dates and routes I want but seems that the earliest flight is often unavailable for economy award even at 6 months out, is it likely that additional seats will be released later or should I just redeem for premium economy seat on the same flight now given it's still available.

Particularly, I'm looking for 2 Y seats on CX463 on Feb 19.

Sharing recent experience:

12/9 HKG-LAX J: Waitlist confirmed on 6/9
29/9 LAX-HKG J: Waitlist confirmed on 23/9 (today) (we confirmed a less preferable flight earlier to do the 6/9 issue, we rebooked on this flight)

Pretty consistent T-6. But both dates are I9 throughout so still frustrated it took this long.

With CX LAX/SFO I'm increasingly forced to confirm less preferable inbound flights on the same class/routing.

Bear in mind there's probably a lot of AA EXPs on these routes with no need to do return flights and free redposits - they need not do our stupid less preferable inbound bookings.

percysmith: thanks for sharing your recent J award booking experience.

My question is: when you confirm your outbound, do you have to confirm your inbound as well? Is it possible to just confirm the outbound and leave inbound waitlisted?

Also, I wonder what would happen if, hypothetically, your 29/9 inbound didn't clear. I guess they already deducted 120k when you confirmed outbound on 6/9? You traveled outbound, now there's no inbound available, would they refund you for the inbound flight? If so, how much?

Sorry these sound too many detailed questions. But with CX award redemption schemes (better RT than OW) and J/F spaces open up last days, I guess a lot of us will face the same waitlist issue.

Thanks!

Well in theory if there was no inbound to be confirmed, I may be forced to issue the outbound for 70,000 miles, keep my inbound waitlists, keep waiting for them even though after the outbound travel date (and I'm already in the US), clear them closer to return date and deduct another 70,000 miles, then apply for a 20,000 mile refund (120,000 R/T - 70,000 O/W x 2).

Thanks percysmith for reply!

Interesting to learn that one could apply for a 20k mile refund based on the two OW booking scenario. Also, if your inbound waitlist never clear, I guess just the outbound for 70k and that's it.

(I'm happy to be corrected on this) I think they have to be same booking so you need the waitlists on the inbound to be created before you ticket the outbound.

I'm personally livid about ticketing one-ways as revenue one-ways cost almost as much as a return with these FSCs.

FSC = :confused:

I think percysmith meant full service carrier.

percysmith, if you mean full service carrier, what does that have to do with the booking practice?

Yes

With FSCs (at least here in Asia) a one-way is priced at a very substantial portion of a return. With LCCs one-ways are priced separately.

'Hacking' the waitlist - works this way?
 

So...I have a confirmed one-way booking in U class booked by Avios on X date, but I would really want to travel on the X-1th in fact. No availability showing for X-1th, but AM waitlist open. I just tried to use my (balance-less) AM account to waitlist for the X-1th and it worked (I got a ref...that means I'm waitlisted right?)

So assuming that there are some AM waitlist quotas to fill for U class before opening up back to partners when it comes to almost to departure time (for X-1th), should I just use the AM accounts of all my family members to waitlist for the remaining U class spots, so when it comes to issuance deadline it'll just cancel out (we all have AM accounts with 0 miles) and me with my legit Avios U class booking get a greater chance to book in at that time?

The ticketing deadline is X-9th, if it matters...

[mod hat]I moved your post here as there is an existing answer.[/Mod hat]

Please refer to posts #12-13 in this thread.

So, I waitlisted for the CX flight and it was confirmed through email about 3 weeks after. I canceled the waitlist shortly after the flight award is available through AM. However BA site does not show availability still whether immediately or after 2 days.

Does this mean the award belongs to a special fare group that's only available on AM?

No, it may also be released back to the revenue pool or may already by taken immediately by someone else before the BA site can sync up with AM.

Sorry I wasn't clear before. I waitlisted for the flight I want via AM 3 weeks ago, I got the email confirmation 2 days ago. I canceled the waitlist.

Right now, BA shows no availability still, however AM does (standard one way award, not priority). I've been checking it twice a day and BA can't book still for the exact same flight / class on the same day.

So I'm guessing that the waitlist request I made has opened up the space for AM redemption pool but not available to partners? Or does it take BA time to sync with AM and open space?

There are some limited circumstances, usually in the one seat available circumstances, where CX will have the seat in AM but not offer the seat to partners like BAEC.

I understand what you said, but as I said:
* Your released AM may not be released back to the award pool. It may not even get back to AM. It may return to the revenue pool.
* You are probably not the last person on the waitlist. It is very likely the next person down the waitlist already took your cancelled award within a second.
* My understanding is that databases are synced up at different times of the day.

Have noticed this on multiple occasions.

Have also noticed how one BAEC account sees a specific award space while another BAEC account doesn't see the same space.

FTG said what you suggested might work:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post25593767
http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/2015/...advantage.html

Hello everyone! Been lurking here and have found super helpful advice over the years, but this is my first post. Have two questions for you seasoned folks:

1) I am flying JFK->HKG->Melbourne in about a month. I purchased R-class PE return ticket, and have been waitlisted for J-class business upgrade since July 21. Is there anything I should be doing, other than waiting for confirmation? I hope you guys don't tell me that I should have been calling Cathay every day, I would kick myself! But whatever the case may be, just give it to me straight so I will know for next time!


My flights, in case it helps to know:


25 Nov 2015, Wed CX841 JFK HKG 09:00 14:05(+1) 77W
26 Nov 2015, Thu CX135 HKG MEL 19:10 07:30(+1) 333

07 Dec 2015, Mon CX178 MEL HKG 00:50 07:00 333
07 Dec 2015, Mon CX830 HKG JFK 09:35 12:10 77W

2) Will they do partial upgrades, like if only certain legs are available or is it all or nothing?

Thanks in advance!

Hello.

#1: Alas, I think you should be calling MPC regularly. The CX waitlist is not reliable, and there are a lot of partners who will gobble up availability pretty quickly if it bypasses the waiting list. It will basically be a "SOL" situation if an award bypasses the waitlist by mistake and goes straight to inventory...where it's likely a partner will see it and grab it.

I'm not sure exactly on the timing (aka, when does CX release seats to the MPC waiting list, and whether or not this is simultaneously when the computer decides whether to release to partner award inventory), but I do know a.) from experience the MPC waiting list doesn't always work correctly, I've had it fail on me on numerous occasions (aka, seats opened up but I wasn't cleared, then they went to the inventory pool, someone else got them, and too bad for me) and b.) there is a lot of partner demand for CX premium cabin seats.

#2: Yes, CX will process partial upgrades for you. And there is at least some good news here...if you clear one way now, and the other way 2 days before departure, CX will refund you the mileage difference so you only pay a round-trip mileage equivalent.

As a final word, if you do discover a situation whereby you got screwed - aka you were patiently on the waitlist, but the waitlist failed and your seat went to someone else - I would call CX and complain. If the cabin is relatively open for sale they **might** release a seat for you. CX has a strong incentive to protect MPC upgrade awards; they are, after all, perhaps the only differentiating incentive to bank miles to AM/MPC, since partners cannot upgrade tickets with partner currency...only AM can be used for upgrades. CX has built in a nice niche by compelling passengers like yourselves to buy up to Y/B/H/K in Y, or W/R in PEY, with hope to use mileage for an upgrade to the higher class. Done right, this system is built to help CX maximize yield and gives CX some cabin flexibility. I think your argument would fall on receptive ears if you complained that the damn waitlist failed you, you specifically paid for R class for the option to upgrade, and what the hell is the point of buying R class in the future if CX can't even follow the system they've put in place themselves.

Ahhhhh, goddammit. I was afraid of that. Thank you very much for the response, I shall be calling them every day starting today! You got me all fired up now :)

The official party line is upgrade redemptions process in the same bucket as straight redemptions, so assuming that line of thinking is true, OCD-driven checking of straight availability for each segment will also do the trick.

I don't see your 2747 3838 am-line manila-based agent doing this for you. General-line agents are mostly WYSIWYG - you might need a DM/GO line to open availability even for an upgrade.

Thanks for clarifying; to the poster I was replying to, I am DM and so probably have a better MPC call center experience than non DMs. I find with the call center when I have a genuinely legitimate gripe and I'm persistent, they are very good at coming through. The key words are legitimate and persistence, however. IME, buying an R fare and being bypassed on the waitlist is a very legitimate gripe - the most attractive thing about R fares are the ability to upgrade using AM, and since CX has a pretty poor (tech wise) waitlist they're kinda shooting themselves in the foot. IMO they should be more aggressive releasing award inventory (aka: more customer friendly) to upgrade AM redemptions, since they're incentivizing economy and PEY pax to buy up, and CX would also be enhancing the value of its own loyalty program to boot. It's such low hanging fruit I don't know why they're asleep at the switch at CX Loyalty Programs or whatever the MPC/AM entity is officially called.

Anyway, if you can get through to AM....I'd make a habit of calling regularly. And if you do happen to see award inventory appear on KVS, or BA or whatever you might use, call immediately and complain because you got bypassed.

Qrc3288 haha I wonder will your AM-level Manila agent understand your what you're going on about...

@percysmith: Where does one go to check award availability other than on the Cathay site (or is this what you mean)? This I can do, I'm already OCD-checking on countless other things, what's another to add to the list that could potentially yield significant benefit!

You can use the KVS tool (paid service) to check Cathay's own award inventory, and the British Airways Executive Club website to search partner availability (aka, what CX has opened up to their OW and other redemption partners). If you see inventory available on the latter but you haven't cleared you should call MPC/AM immediately because that means the waitlist didn't work.

Gotcha. Thank you! I just called Marco Polo customer service and the call was 100% useless :rolleyes: Will try and figure out inventory through other means and commence OCD-level calling :)