graraps

Spoken like a true airline manager. I'd like to see you doing a sub-4h trip including travelling to the airport, waiting in check-in, security (and perhaps immigration) queues (assuming no status), the flight to the hub, running around the hub to make the 50' connection (no time to eat, even where there's something half-decent available at the hub), the flight from the hub to your destination, the immigration queue, waiting in a food-free area for your luggage and travelling from the airport to your destination.

Purchase from inflight services? You mean like my LTN-ATH flight (3h40' flying time, a door-to-door trip time of well over 6 hours) on Easyjet a few years ago which only had PRINGLES available?

Concerto

And what about BA CitiFlyer to and from LCY? The same rubbish?

FlyingJ

Thanks for posting this BBB. As for BA managers telling you off, shame on them, and far better that we find out in advance.

As someone who flies domestically regularly, I probably have the sandwiches about 70% of the time as I usually don't get to the airport early enough to benefit from the lounge catering. I'd be interested to know what the uptake figures are for the sandwiches and the birdseed, I've done my own straw poll several times but doubt it's an accurate sample.

What I have noted is passengers who declined the sandwiches then just ask for the Breakaway biscuit (and sometimes get two) with a cup of tea/coffee so the sandwiches end up left on the trolley and there seems to be a lot of wastage. Do you know if this has been a factor in the decision to remove them?

I don't think the change might be so bad if something better than the birdseed was on offer, like a small pack of Kettle Chips or a KitKat/similar thing to go with a hot drink. As it is, it's almost like the birdseed is a deliberate slap in the face. I really do still feel insulted when it's offered, would've thought I'd gotten over that by now.

So for £432.20 (J to NCL), we get a pack of birdseed, lounge access and advance seat selection, and the chance to get on any of six flights a day if they're not full, which they have been a surprisingly high number of times lately.

Looks like National Rail (or whoever it will end up being) will be getting a lot more of my business once NXEC are given the final boot. Same time door to door, £60 cheaper, and at the moment the fare includes car parking, a three course meal, lounge access, seat assignments, and a train every 30 minutes. Hmm...

Dr. HFH

Well, I tend to agree with Lobengula. How often do you eat when not flying? Do you normally eat every four or six hours on the clock? Why not just carry a snack with you? Chances are good that it will be of higher quality and better taste than whatever BA gives you, especially in Y.

To me, this is an easy and obvious place to cut costs. On a 2½ hour flight HKG<->BKK, for example, CX does a full meal service in F. Why? Seems to me that the primary product you're purchasing is transportation, especially in Y and/or on shorter flights.

(P.S., I'm not in the airline or any other transportation related business.)

JayPee

While I sympathise with BA over its current financial plight, what I detest is the duplicitous nature in which these cuts in catering are to be introduced.

Surely being open and upfront with customers would be preferable instead of just bringing in limited catering. Or are they relying on the the good old English "stiff upper lip" reaction to adverse changes.

I do wonder if BA were to announce the forthcoming changes to catering and explain the rationale pax would be a lot more understanding.

During the amenity kit crisis a couple of weeks ago, our hackles were raised, not by the absence of the bags, but by the lack of explanation or attempt to seek a limited solution.

Seems they are about to do the same with food.

Weak management!

Stez

Pretty shocking stuff - mostly they won't affect me... yet, but it's enough to make me switch airlines if a flight doesn't have enough food and drinks, so if I'm back to short haul for work trips, it will make me think more carefully about the alternatives, even if it means running down my silver BAEC to nothing.

graraps

If you had bothered to actually read my post (vs just the first sentence), you 'd have seen that my entire point was that a 4-hour flight IS NOT the same thing as a 4-hour trip. The average shorthaul connecting pax with a total flying time of 4 hours, or, using your logic, "just 2-hour trips", spends more like 8.5 hours door-to-door, with limited eating opportunities. Unless I'm in some very deep sleep, I eat a lot more frequently than every 8.5 hours.

Of course I can take a snack, but it can't contain any liquids, and it can't require refrigeration or heating and it can't be cheese or it'll melt and make a mess of my carryon, and it can't be meat products or raw fruit because there are restrictions on moving these about (even within the EU!), which basically leaves us with biccies and cereal bars.

Well, I can just about subsist on them, but it's NOT a decent way to live/travel.

Jase76

As someone who flies QF domestic (in Y), I have no problem paying $6 for a drink before 16:00. The 187ml bottle of wine certainly costs QF less than $6, so they are making a profit, but it does work well.

FlyingJ

I think many BA domestic passengers would have an issue with this.

I missed one major point in my post above: the free alcohol. Given the approach to service, this is clearly what costs BA the money.

On several of my recent evening/night flights the crew have proactively offered doubles and/or refills to passengers. Even when not offered, anyone who requested a double or a second, different drink, was certainly given one without a fuss.

So BA (and BA crew), don't think we don't appreciate this. I'm just worried that removal of the bar altogether will be the next 'enhancement'.

atsak

Disaster. I flew on several BA flights (in the back and in WT+) and didn't know the drinks were complimentary.

I'm so stupid.

On another note, with respect to any management hassle for posting this; that's ridiculous. If you're going to make a policy change you should have a compelling reason and be willing to stand by it. They should have research that shows customers in the back of the bus only care about low fares (which there is some and so is mostly true) and they should refer to that as the reason.

By the way, how much does it typically cost for an airline meal? You used to be able to pre-buy your Buy On Board on AC when you booked your ticket (I haven't checked lately if its still that way) and it was $6 or something. I bought it when I wanted it and didn't when I didn't. So I was OK with that myself, but don't think they should be charging business or first customers anything extra for food or drinks. In fact they should be falling all over themselves to give them a little more given the current environment.

Also, I hate the cuplets, especially if they have orange juice in them (that doesn't apply here). They explode on me quite regularly. I learned to point them away from me to open fairly quickly (much to the chagrin of my seatmate one time. Oops).

HIDDY

Yes hopefully BBB doesn't get into trouble for posting this information. Although I can understand from a commercial viewpoint why BA might not be happy when the not so good news leaks out.

BA benefits greatly from the feedback it gets from this board so they can't really complain when they receive some flak from the punters.

millionmiler

I obviously wish that BA was not making these changes.

Yet, BA will make these changes, passengers will complain, nothing will happen, and then passengers will accept the new normal. There will be other changes in the future. For example, drinks will no longer be free. Food will be removed in the clubs. Drinks in the clubs will no longer be free in all locations. Passengers will complain, nothing will happen, and then passengers will accept the new normal.

In the medium term the definition of a full service airline will be mainly brand perception (i.e., the color of the paint on the tail and a nostalgic memory of the good old days) and not actual service levels.

The BA loyalists will remain loyal despite threats to the contrary.

Dr. HFH

OK, take a breath, now, calm down.

I did, indeed, read your entire post before I wrote my response. My point is that if eating by the clock is that important to you (and I make no value judgment on this issue, I know that many people are required to eat regularly for medical reasons), you plan accordingly. It means that you don't get to the airport with just barely enough time to clear security and sprint to the gate, you plan to arrive a bit earlier. It means that you don't plan unrealistic 50 minute connections which you can only make if everything is precisely on schedule. When I plan connections, I always plan extra time because feeling rushed induces a lot of stress in me, and I find it quite unpleasant. I work around that problem by scheduling longer connections, even if it means leaving an hour or two earlier or arriving later.

In other words, set your priorities. If food is fairly high on the list, adjust your life accordingly. In times of financial stress, everyone adjusts and makes compromises. Is it realistic to expect BA to be exempt from this? Revenue is down, and something has to give. Personally, I would happily give up all onboard food service if it meant that FAs didn't have to work without pay. IMO, that's a far larger sacrifice than giving up some mediocre food which I can easily replace, anyway. What would your choice be?

Crampedin13A

I certainly hope not as well. See this thread about an Aeroplan agent being fired allegedly for his FT postings.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...-aeroplan.html

graraps

You don't always have that much choice about connection timings. Loads of flights go only 1-2 times a day (or even 5 times a week)- for a few prime examples, just look at the BA LGW schedule. Also, especially in the UK, public transport is so slow and starts so late that, for example, there isn't a train that leaves Bradford early enough to make a 09:00 flight from MAN (which is only 45 miles away). So you end up having to take the afternoon flight, which only gives you a 50' connection to the only remaning flight to where you're going, and you're screwed.

Personally, I usually have lounge access and queue-jumping privileges, so I am not THAT affected by catering cutbacks. But I think that the point of a full-service airline is to offer a full service (even in Y), not have you scrambling for a bag of crisps on your way to the airport.

Novel as it may sound, the reasons I fly have nothing to do with contributing to the well-being of the FAs- I do appreciate that a happy workforce will often result in better service, but my interest in that is primarily out of selfish concern for the service I'm going to be receiving. If you object to the HR practices of an airline, I suggest that you don't fly them. I'd rather keep my mediocre food, thanks!