Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Jan 1, 2023, 11:31 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to the full original text of the regulations in PDF format

Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
Brexit and Covid pointers: see post 8
Print Wikipost

The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old May 3, 2023, 7:07 am
  #811  
S80
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Airport Lounges (Usually in ORD and LHR)
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K, 1MM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,433
Hello all,

I'm unfortunately US-based, so used to absolutely no protections, but was delayed on BA, and would love some advice on if/how to proceed with this claim. - Was flying on BA1320 on the 10th of March. Flight was delayed 4 hours, as the incoming aircraft had `an issue`, and didn't make it into LHR, so they had to swap aircraft to a different one.
I filed the claim the day of the flight.
BA got back to me over a month later stating that they couldn't find my reservation, so I re-submitted the same information.
BA then denied my claim `Due to de-icing at London Heathrow`.
I replied, stating that the aircraft was not de-iced at London Heathrow, and asked for further information on the delay. BA won't speak with me any further on the matter, and in their reply mentioned that the flight was cancelled (not delayed), so I'm not dealing with the most detail oriented person.

I would like to pursue this further (I believe that should be through CEDR? - I don't particularly want to go the court route, as showing up would more than negate the claim back), but want to make sure I have a valid claim first. I understand that `weather` is not covered, however from my understanding, this flight was not delayed due to weather, as only this flight appeared to be affected (the flight ~1hr earlier LHR-NCL was on time, for example).

Thanks in advance, and please let me know if I can provide any further details.
AutismoSupremo likes this.
S80 is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 7:55 am
  #812  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,353
Originally Posted by S80
Hello all,

I'm unfortunately US-based, so used to absolutely no protections, but was delayed on BA, and would love some advice on if/how to proceed with this claim. - Was flying on BA1320 on the 10th of March. Flight was delayed 4 hours, as the incoming aircraft had `an issue`, and didn't make it into LHR, so they had to swap aircraft to a different one.
I filed the claim the day of the flight.
BA got back to me over a month later stating that they couldn't find my reservation, so I re-submitted the same information.
BA then denied my claim `Due to de-icing at London Heathrow`.
I replied, stating that the aircraft was not de-iced at London Heathrow, and asked for further information on the delay. BA won't speak with me any further on the matter, and in their reply mentioned that the flight was cancelled (not delayed), so I'm not dealing with the most detail oriented person.

I would like to pursue this further (I believe that should be through CEDR? - I don't particularly want to go the court route, as showing up would more than negate the claim back), but want to make sure I have a valid claim first. I understand that `weather` is not covered, however from my understanding, this flight was not delayed due to weather, as only this flight appeared to be affected (the flight ~1hr earlier LHR-NCL was on time, for example).

Thanks in advance, and please let me know if I can provide any further details.
Not sure it is worth pursuing in all honesty but you are more than welcome to go down the CEDR route.

After a brief bit of digging; G-EUUC was your aircraft, on the 9th it night stopped in NCL. Over night there were indeed snow showers reported which would have necessitated de-icing for the morning service BA1321 down to LHR which then became your BA1320.
BA 1321 left the gate in NCL just shy of 3 hours late. It should also be noted that there were NOTAM-d periods of no ATC availability due to staff shortages. One of the periods in question does indeed fall during the scheduled time of departure for BA 1321. So there is the requirement for de-icing plus a notified lack of ATC service which in effect shuts the airfield, so it is hardly a surprise there was a significant delay.

As for the all reasonable measures element of minimising delays, that perhaps remains to be argued. There may also be some other compelling reason why you were delayed but I wouldnt know this far past the time.

So by all means consider CEDR, but dont hold your breath. Going down that route would most likely initiate a fuller response from BA and it is likely the 10-15 minutes it took to compile my information is far greater than that spent by the individual handling your claim, but I doubt it would engender much more. Given you were over 2 hours delays, did you receive any light refreshment vouchers? Were you in the lounge? If you still have a receipt for any food or drink purchased during this delay it would be worth submitting a claim for that amount of you wish.
S80 likes this.
Sigwx is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 7:58 am
  #813  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: FL390 or the iron way
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 1,927
Originally Posted by Sigwx
Not sure it is worth pursuing in all honesty but you are more than welcome to go down the CEDR route.

After a brief bit of digging; G-EUUC was your aircraft, on the 9th it night stopped in NCL. Over night there were indeed snow showers reported which would have necessitated de-icing for the morning service BA1321 down to LHR which then became your BA1320.
BA 1321 left the gate in NCL just shy of 3 hours late. It should also be noted that there were NOTAM-d periods of no ATC availability due to staff shortages. One of the periods in question does indeed fall during the scheduled time of departure for BA 1321. So there is the requirement for de-icing plus a notified lack of ATC service which in effect shuts the airfield, so it is hardly a surprise there was a significant delay.

As for the all reasonable measures element of minimising delays, that perhaps remains to be argued. There may also be some other compelling reason why you were delayed but I wouldnt know this far past the time.

So by all means consider CEDR, but dont hold your breath. Going down that route would most likely initiate a fuller response from BA and it is likely the 10-15 minutes it took to compile my information is far greater than that spent by the individual handling your claim, but I doubt it would engender much more. Given you were over 2 hours delays, did you receive any light refreshment vouchers? Were you in the lounge? If you still have a receipt for any food or drink purchased during this delay it would be worth submitting a claim for that amount of you wish.
I don't see that delays on previous legs are relevant when LHR is BA's main base - a spare aircraft ought to have been substituted in. In practice of course there may not have been the spare aircraft or crew available, but that then points to a failure to apply all reasonable measures.

So even if the first part of the 'exceptional circumstances' test is met (which is unclear) I don't see that it meets the second 'all reasonable measures' part.

CEDR is likely [MENTION=10092259]S80[/MENTION]'s best course of action here.
Sigwx, omk298 and AutismoSupremo like this.
flarmip is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 8:14 am
  #814  
S80
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Airport Lounges (Usually in ORD and LHR)
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K, 1MM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,433
Originally Posted by Sigwx
Not sure it is worth pursuing in all honesty but you are more than welcome to go down the CEDR route.

After a brief bit of digging; G-EUUC was your aircraft, on the 9th it night stopped in NCL. Over night there were indeed snow showers reported which would have necessitated de-icing for the morning service BA1321 down to LHR which then became your BA1320.
BA 1321 left the gate in NCL just shy of 3 hours late. It should also be noted that there were NOTAM-d periods of no ATC availability due to staff shortages. One of the periods in question does indeed fall during the scheduled time of departure for BA 1321. So there is the requirement for de-icing plus a notified lack of ATC service which in effect shuts the airfield, so it is hardly a surprise there was a significant delay.

As for the all reasonable measures element of minimising delays, that perhaps remains to be argued. There may also be some other compelling reason why you were delayed but I wouldnt know this far past the time.

So by all means consider CEDR, but dont hold your breath. Going down that route would most likely initiate a fuller response from BA and it is likely the 10-15 minutes it took to compile my information is far greater than that spent by the individual handling your claim, but I doubt it would engender much more. Given you were over 2 hours delays, did you receive any light refreshment vouchers? Were you in the lounge? If you still have a receipt for any food or drink purchased during this delay it would be worth submitting a claim for that amount of you wish.
Originally Posted by flarmip
I don't see that delays on previous legs are relevant when LHR is BA's main base - a spare aircraft ought to have been substituted in. In practice of course there may not have been the spare aircraft or crew available, but that then points to a failure to apply all reasonable measures.

So even if the first part of the 'exceptional circumstances' test is met (which is unclear) I don't see that it meets the second 'all reasonable measures' part.

CEDR is likely [MENTION=10092259]S80[/MENTION]'s best course of action here.
Thank you both for your time and detailed responses!

It is worth noting that G-EUUC was not the original aircraft scheduled to operate the flight, that was the replacement aircraft that we had to wait for while the original one was delayed (the crew mentioned they were already in LHR and `waited out the delay with us`), and BA putting it on a bus stand delayed our departure even further.
The only information I received from BA on the day was that we were waiting on an aircraft to be available, no mention of weather or ATC was ever mentioned.

I was in the lounge, so no costs there, I'm just unhappy with the treatment I received by BA in the lounge.
Sigwx likes this.
S80 is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 8:19 am
  #815  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,353
Do you happen to know the registration of your originally assigned aircraft?
Sigwx is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 8:34 am
  #816  
S80
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Airport Lounges (Usually in ORD and LHR)
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K, 1MM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,433
Originally Posted by Sigwx
Do you happen to know the registration of your originally assigned aircraft?
Yes, G-TTNE. Scheduled to operate BA831 from DUB-LHR. From what FR24 showed day of, it left the gate on time, taxied out, then returned to the gate later on. The subsequent flight DUB-LHR (BA833) taxied out past BA831 and departed on time (this aircraft, however, was never assigned to operate BA1320 from what I can tell).

I don't think I can go back that far on an airport-basis in FR24, but I can see that AF1559 NCL-CDG departed 51 minutes late at 7:11am (only 21 minutes after the scheduled departure of BA1321), and LS583 departed at 7:34am (64 minutes late), so other aircraft were departing NCL around that time, and none were delayed by 3 hours like BA1321.

The earlier BA LHR-NCL flight (BA1324) landed at NCL at 8:58, 23 minutes late.
S80 is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 9:27 am
  #817  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,353
Yes CEDR is your preferred route here id say.

I was going to mention that crews diverge, flight deck one way, and cabin crew the other, pretty much almost sector by sector if not rotation by rotation, so it is not uncommon to see more than two airframes in a duty day on short haul, your crew either arriving into LHR that day more or less on time or all reporting that day.

Regardless of that it would appear this might well be a reactionary delay due to TNE going tech in DUB. You seem to have all the details required to have a good chance at a successful claim so at the 8 week point and with BA refusing to budge, go ahead if you wish. Given the information you have Id reply to BA in kind, it simply helps smooth the path for CEDR to accept you case once BA have stated their position will not change.
S80 likes this.
Sigwx is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 10:10 am
  #818  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Arizona
Programs: BA (GGL G4L), AA (Gold), HH (Diamond); Marriott (Gold)
Posts: 3,014
It's been so long I've forgotten a lot of the nuances, but this one also isn't simple:

* April 5th, BA cancels LHR-LAX BA 281 approximately 12 hours prior to departure as part of a DUB-LHR-LAX-PHX-LAX-LHR-DUB (return has not been flown yet)
* During the LHR security strike, but flight was likely canceled due to aircraft shortage)
* Cash booking in CW, either a GUF or joker + avios was used to upgrade the longhaul segments (I don't recall which)
* Suggested BA reroute violated MCT (learned about the cancellation on my way to the airport)
* Asked agent at DUB to rebook me DUB-LHR-DFW-PHX to retain F, agent was unwilling/unable to do it and time was approaching the 1 hour cutoff time. Suggestion was made to ask at LHR (I had been auto-rebooked on DUB-LHR-PHX, downgrade to CW, had to point out the auto-rebooking violated the LHR minimum connection time)
* Flew to London
* Asked agent at LHR First Wing to rebook, was told no, as bags were already checked
* Traveled in CW LHR-PHX

I reached out to Customer Relations and was given a response along the lines of: "While I appreciate your reasons for asking, I can only offer compensation if you're downgraded on your originally booked flight. However, once you've completed your itinerary, please contact us by clicking here and we'll arrange any refund due."

I doubt whatever mechanism they use to calculate the refund is going to come close to reasonable, and I would have strongly preferred to fly in F via DFW. Next time I'll just call the GGL line first.

Would it be a reasonable request to ask for the return of either a GUF or joker depending on what was used? Something else?
dylanks is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 10:14 am
  #819  
S80
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Airport Lounges (Usually in ORD and LHR)
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K, 1MM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,433
Originally Posted by Sigwx
Yes CEDR is your preferred route here id say.

I was going to mention that crews diverge, flight deck one way, and cabin crew the other, pretty much almost sector by sector if not rotation by rotation, so it is not uncommon to see more than two airframes in a duty day on short haul, your crew either arriving into LHR that day more or less on time or all reporting that day.

Regardless of that it would appear this might well be a reactionary delay due to TNE going tech in DUB. You seem to have all the details required to have a good chance at a successful claim so at the 8 week point and with BA refusing to budge, go ahead if you wish. Given the information you have Id reply to BA in kind, it simply helps smooth the path for CEDR to accept you case once BA have stated their position will not change.
Thank you again for your time and response, Sigwx .
I have previously replied to BA asking for reconsideration, however I did not provide any of the information above, I simply stated that the flight was not de-iced as they claimed. The response I received from that reconsideration request is as follows:
The information we have provided in rejecting your claim has been taken from our Operations Control Manager's daily log. We consider this to be proof of the circumstances surrounding the cancellation of your flight. We do not provide copies of these to passengers as these documents, and our maintenance records, contain sensitive business information.
Should I reply again with the information above asking for another reconsideration, or is this considered a deadlock response, and I should start the claim with CEDR today (or wait until 8 weeks have passed since the flight)?
S80 is offline  
Old May 3, 2023, 10:41 am
  #820  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 64,444
Originally Posted by S80
Should I reply again with the information above asking for another reconsideration, or is this considered a deadlock response, and I should start the claim with CEDR today (or wait until 8 weeks have passed since the flight)?
It's very rare BA changes their stance after their first reply. So the usual adviice I give is to seek confirmation that their reply will not change, which allows you to go to CEDR straight away. Otherwise you can go to CEDR 8 weeks after your initial complaint.
S80 likes this.
corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old May 4, 2023, 4:24 am
  #821  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: BA Silver, several other less interesting cards...
Posts: 3,719
Originally Posted by srbrenna
Progress is happening! They can reroute but are now saying that as the BOS-JFK is in Y then the JFK-LHR also has to be in Y and not W. Is this right??
An update. I have managed to reach a compromise. I can fly out of NY in WT+ but have to make my own way there and claim back. Im amazed at this. No amount of HUACA would work. A friend booked through AA and was rebooked all the way in less than 10 minutes!
srbrenna is offline  
Old May 4, 2023, 5:04 am
  #822  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Programs: AA
Posts: 356
First time claiming - Is this applicable?

Originally flying LAX-DFW-LHR-BUD. LAX-DFW was cancelled, so I was rebooked onto LAX-LHR-BUD with a 2 hr layover in London. All operated by BA.

Now, LAX-LHR arrived 1 hr late due to operational reasons ("crew overslept"), so I missed my LHR-BUD connection and will now arrive 7 hours late in BUD.

Do I get 600 euro?
golfer20 is offline  
Old May 4, 2023, 7:52 am
  #823  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: IST
Programs: UA Gold, BA Gold
Posts: 118
Data point:

17 April: Flight cancelled by BA 1 day before departure (reason: TECY)
19 April: UK261 Claim sent
27 April: BA responded saying eligible for compensation
03 May: 520 in my bank account.
benmacd is offline  
Old May 4, 2023, 8:15 am
  #824  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 64,444
Originally Posted by golfer20
Originally flying LAX-DFW-LHR-BUD. LAX-DFW was cancelled, so I was rebooked onto LAX-LHR-BUD with a 2 hr layover in London. All operated by BA.

Now, LAX-LHR arrived 1 hr late due to operational reasons ("crew overslept"), so I missed my LHR-BUD connection and will now arrive 7 hours late in BUD.

Do I get 600 euro?
I'm surprised they 'fessed up to that reason! (It's usually that the departure has to be delayed slightly to ensure crew get their minimum rest allowance completed). But yes, either way that is ok for a full claim so long as you board the BUD flight and thus end up 7 hours late.
golfer20 likes this.
corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old May 4, 2023, 9:58 am
  #825  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: E14, LON
Programs: Virtuoso TA; SELECT TA; BAEC Gold; Hilton Honors Diamond; IHG Plantinum Amb
Posts: 246
Just to report a quick response from BA on my recent one. I was flying BA2641 SKG to LGW on Wed 26 April, which was delayed about 3.5 hours due to an air con fault onboard (according to the Captain). I submitted my claim after we landed on the same day (I didn't include any additional details), and received response today (i.e., 8 days later) confirming 350 per passenger (which accords to by understanding of €400 for this flight length) will be paid shortly.
poplarflyer is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.