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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Jan 1, 2023, 11:31 am
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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Apr 16, 2023, 3:35 am
  #661  
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Originally Posted by sds1493
What's the chance of changing to a flight tomorrow night? Would it remove eligibility for uk261 comp?
​​​
If the delay is over 5 hours then BA usually allows you to rebook. But if you volunteer to do this, get reticketed, then the base line is your new ticket timings, which may well remove EC261 compensation entitlement.

BA55 is LHR to JNB.
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Old Apr 16, 2023, 12:50 pm
  #662  
 
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Hoping for some help please as to whether I am entitled to compensation and what form that would take if so.

I used a companion voucher, avios and cash to book MAN > LHR > SEA return for 2 in economy. The return flight SEA - LHR was BA0048 on 08/04 arriving on 09/04 at 13:15. Connecting to BA1394 to MAN departing at 14:15 to arrive at 15:15. We touched down at 13:17 and didn't get to stand until 13:40ish. This was due to an aircraft still being on our stand. They had to start one engine on stand for that aircraft, this was communicated by the Captain.

Even without the delay, we touched down with 58 minutes until our next flight so wouldn't have made the minimum connection time anyway. Although as it happens BA1394 was subject to over an hour delay too. We were moved to BA1402 arriving into Manchester at 20:30, over 5 hours later than planned. Compensation has been denied on the below basis. I'm not sure it departed late, but can't remember if there was a delay at that time, I only know that it arrived late.

Your claim's been refused because BA048 on 08 April 2023 was delayed because of the start up delay.

London Heathrow is one of the world’s busiest international airports. Over 99.5% of all possible take-off and landing slots are taken up, so any disruption to our normal operation will result in delays and cancellations. Even if our operation is only disrupted for a short period of time in the morning, this can have a knock-on effect for the rest of the day.

We take all reasonable measures to avoid disruption to a flight and we always consider if there are any other alternative solutions before we make a decision. The delay was out of our control and caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.
Is there any comeback to this at all? Many thanks for any assistance.
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Old Apr 16, 2023, 1:11 pm
  #663  
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Did you therefore get airside before the earlier MAN service had departed? Either way it would be sensible to send that to CEDR, to see if all reasonable measures were taken in this case.
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Old Apr 16, 2023, 1:21 pm
  #664  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Did you therefore get airside before the earlier MAN service had departed? Either way it would be sensible to send that to CEDR, to see if all reasonable measures were taken in this case.
Yes, we were airside well before our original flight departed. We got to the boarding pass check before the e-gates as we were going to try and make our flight. But they diverted us to flight connections for rebooking. Will try CEDR and see what the outcome is.
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Old Apr 16, 2023, 1:37 pm
  #665  
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Originally Posted by mrblackthecat
Yes, we were airside well before our original flight departed. We got to the boarding pass check before the e-gates as we were going to try and make our flight. But they diverted us to flight connections for rebooking. Will try CEDR and see what the outcome is.
That's a clear case similar to the CJEU's rulings relating to Germn Rodrguez Cachafeiro and Mara de los Reyes Martnez-Reboredo Varela-Villamor v Iberia, Lneas Areas de Espaa SA. Ideally you would have a selfie at the MAN gate showing "Boarding" and a suitable sad face. Plus anything else BA could have done to get you to MAN on time.
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Old Apr 16, 2023, 2:45 pm
  #666  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
That's a clear case similar to the CJEU's rulings relating to Germn Rodrguez Cachafeiro and Mara de los Reyes Martnez-Reboredo Varela-Villamor v Iberia, Lneas Areas de Espaa SA. Ideally you would have a selfie at the MAN gate showing "Boarding" and a suitable sad face. Plus anything else BA could have done to get you to MAN on time.
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Old Apr 16, 2023, 3:18 pm
  #667  
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Originally Posted by Londonlover
I missed connection flight. BA offered voucher for obscure hotel+bus. I asked 3 times for a room in Sofitel. Their final answer:There are no rooms available in Sofitel so I accepted the vouchers. The hourly bus 20:00 didnt show up. Instead waiting till 21:00 I went to Sofitel and surprise they had a basic room which I booked. Can I claim my Sofitel expense ?
You have no entitlement to claim in this situation. BA is entitled to choose where to put you within reason.
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Old Apr 16, 2023, 3:36 pm
  #668  
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Originally Posted by stifle
You have no entitlement to claim in this situation. BA is entitled to choose where to put you within reason.
Actually thinking about this - had the OP just gone to book it, BA would probably just pay up as long as it was under 250 or so.

from the story it does seem the OP took the vouchers for the other hotel though so - unless it was a seriously unsuitable hotel - BA can argue they did provide one in accordance with their obligations.

i would agree that passengers do not have the right to book the sofitel.
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Old Apr 17, 2023, 7:49 am
  #669  
 
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Any thoughts on pursuing this response from BA?

"Your claim for compensation has been refused, because BA1387 on 12 December 2022 was delayed due to the breakdown of ground equipment at Manchester Airport. As this is outside of our control and was the bulk of the delay time that caused your missed connection, unfortunately compensation isn't payable."

Tbh I'd expected them to blame weather and ATC as we did have some of that too, as well as a blocked gate at LHR. The baggage issue was the killer blow though.

Part of me thinks that who you contract out services too and the SLAs and resiliency they provide to you, as part of that service is very much in BAs control?
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Old Apr 17, 2023, 8:00 am
  #670  
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Originally Posted by tuonopepper
Any thoughts on pursuing this response from BA?

"Your claim for compensation has been refused, because BA1387 on 12 December 2022 was delayed due to the breakdown of ground equipment at Manchester Airport. As this is outside of our control and was the bulk of the delay time that caused your missed connection, unfortunately compensation isn't payable."
The big question for me is - is this equipment owned / operated by Menzies? If so then it is definitely in scope for EC261 since Menzies acts as BA's agents in Manchester. If it's equipment belonging to the airport operators, MAG, then BA would have a point.
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Old Apr 17, 2023, 8:48 am
  #671  
 
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Well, as described at the time it was 'a problem with the equipment used to load the bags' which I'm best guessing to mean the machine used to transfer them from the baggage train into the hold.

As to whether that equipment is owned by Menzies or its owned by MAG and made available to Menzies to operate i'm not sure, might be worth a reply to push a little for the sake.of an email.
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Old Apr 17, 2023, 10:01 am
  #672  
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I think that would normally be Menzies. But in any case I would say this is where Siewart v Flugdienst GmbH would apply since it's inherent and part of normal aviation activities. Don't argue with BA on this, they won't have a clue about Siewart, take this to CEDR or MCOL and mention the case there.
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Old Apr 17, 2023, 10:43 am
  #673  
 
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Originally Posted by tuonopepper
Well, as described at the time it was 'a problem with the equipment used to load the bags' which I'm best guessing to mean the machine used to transfer them from the baggage train into the hold.

As to whether that equipment is owned by Menzies or its owned by MAG and made available to Menzies to operate i'm not sure, might be worth a reply to push a little for the sake.of an email.
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
I think that would normally be Menzies. But in any case I would say this is where Siewart v Flugdienst GmbH would apply since it's inherent and part of normal aviation activities. Don't argue with BA on this, they won't have a clue about Siewart, take this to CEDR or MCOL and mention the case there.
Yes that would be a Menzies issue. if it was the terminal's baggage system or BRS then it would be a MAG issue. Loading is very much Menzies ball game.
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Old Apr 17, 2023, 10:46 am
  #674  
 
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Originally Posted by mrblackthecat
Hoping for some help please as to whether I am entitled to compensation and what form that would take if so.

I used a companion voucher, avios and cash to book MAN > LHR > SEA return for 2 in economy. The return flight SEA - LHR was BA0048 on 08/04 arriving on 09/04 at 13:15. Connecting to BA1394 to MAN departing at 14:15 to arrive at 15:15. We touched down at 13:17 and didn't get to stand until 13:40ish. This was due to an aircraft still being on our stand. They had to start one engine on stand for that aircraft, this was communicated by the Captain.

Even without the delay, we touched down with 58 minutes until our next flight so wouldn't have made the minimum connection time anyway. Although as it happens BA1394 was subject to over an hour delay too. We were moved to BA1402 arriving into Manchester at 20:30, over 5 hours later than planned. Compensation has been denied on the below basis. I'm not sure it departed late, but can't remember if there was a delay at that time, I only know that it arrived late.

Your claim's been refused because BA048 on 08 April 2023 was delayed because of the start up delay.
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
That's a clear case similar to the CJEU's rulings relating to Germn Rodrguez Cachafeiro and Mara de los Reyes Martnez-Reboredo Varela-Villamor v Iberia, Lneas Areas de Espaa SA. Ideally you would have a selfie at the MAN gate showing "Boarding" and a suitable sad face. Plus anything else BA could have done to get you to MAN on time.
Given BA 48 departed on time I can't see how they used 'a start-up delay' as their excuse, but then neither am I surprised in equal measure.
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Old Apr 17, 2023, 11:02 am
  #675  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
I think that would normally be Menzies. But in any case I would say this is where Siewart v Flugdienst GmbH would apply since it's inherent and part of normal aviation activities. Don't argue with BA on this, they won't have a clue about Siewart, take this to CEDR or MCOL and mention the case there.
I'll punt it back at BA for a 'final response' then CEDR it with the case referenced if still no dice. Thanks.
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