Feb 22, 2022, 3:14 am
Last edit by: plunet
Because of the scale of the disruption resulting from an IT system outage, most passengers should expect to make their own arrangements to mitigate the disruption as BA will not have resources to assist all passengers.
Your travel plans are probably in tatters, you should give BA a chance to fix things for you.
Firstly do not cancel or refund or credit to a voucher your ticket if this option exists as you effectively voluntarily cancel the contract for transportation with BA by doing so and hence end any right to claim for replacement transport, duty of care, or anything else.
If BA.com is working, at least give it a go and see if Manage my Booking is giving you any sensible options. You don't have to take the option(s) presented if they do not meet your needs and you might be able to find better options yourself. However, not that by default BA will be only offering rebooking onto BA and any Joint-Ventre carriers and possible OneWorld partners. If there are no sensible options, document it (take a picture). Also try the BA app, it may work when the website doesn't, or vice versa. Take a screenshot of any errors you get when trying to log in or do anything reasonable.
Try calling the call centre. You probably won't get through in a sensible length of time, but document that you made several calls. Take a screenshot and save it.
If you have made reasonable attempts to contact BA and have not been able to do so, this now puts you in a strong position to organise your own onward travel arrangements, and to claim the difference from BA later. You need to act reasonably, choose travel arrangements that are similar where possible to what you had purchased from BA, and where possible you should document with photos or screen shots that the actions you are taking are reasonable, there are no other cheaper options. Even if you don't plan to use it for booking, use a comparison service to show current market costs for the transport you are choosing. BA should respond positively to customer service claims for the cost of onward transport where you can show that BA were unable to provide you timely assistance to rebook. You should do this bearing in mind what coverage you might have from your own travel insurance policy and whether your planned trip is salvageable or if it is entirely in vain and should be abandoned. Note that BA are not responsible for consequential costs beyond their initial contract for transport, but any insurance you may have could be.
BA have a duty of care under the UK successor to EU Regulation 261/2004 and based upon forum experience the following costs would usually be claimable from BA without any significant pushback.
£25 for reasonable meal/refreshment expenses (per adult per day)
2 reasonable phone calls per customer
If an overnight stay is required in a location a significant distance from your home address
£200 for a hotel room (for 2 people)
£50 Transport to/from the airport (round trip)
Although BA has suggested some guideline costs for duty of care as indicated above, EU Regulation 261/2004 doesn't specify any monetary cap. By documenting (take a screen capture of a hotel comparison site for example) that there were no cheaper alternatives, it is possible that claims exceeding the guideline costs suggested by BA may be met, but having additional evidence or justification for costs going over these limits would be sensible. Expenses not covered by BA may be claimable from your travel insurance subject to possible policy excesses.
Duty of care is separate from fixed sum compensation (EUR 250 to 600 depending on the flight distance) for flight delays/cancellations, which may or may not be payable under EU Regulation 261/2004 depending on whether BA can show that the flight delay was caused by 'extraordinary circumstances' and that it took 'all reasonable measures' to avoid the resulting delay. Also, airlines do not usually entertain claims for consequential losses (for example, the cost of prepaid accomodation which you can't now use), so you would need to look to your travel insurance for these costs.
EU Regulation 261/2004 does not cover delayed/damaged/lost baggage. The Montreal Convention sets an upper limit for delayed/damaged/lost baggage compensation. For more information, visit the BA.com webpage on delayed/damaged/lost baggage - see https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...amaged-baggage
Set your expectation for the turnaround time for any refunds, claims, etc. It could be more like weeks rather than days, consider this if cashflow is concern.
You can read the forum thread for guidance on EU Regulation 261/2004 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...61-2004-a.html or check back on these forums later for more advice on claiming, but first of all look after yourself during this disruption.
Your travel plans are probably in tatters, you should give BA a chance to fix things for you.
Firstly do not cancel or refund or credit to a voucher your ticket if this option exists as you effectively voluntarily cancel the contract for transportation with BA by doing so and hence end any right to claim for replacement transport, duty of care, or anything else.
If BA.com is working, at least give it a go and see if Manage my Booking is giving you any sensible options. You don't have to take the option(s) presented if they do not meet your needs and you might be able to find better options yourself. However, not that by default BA will be only offering rebooking onto BA and any Joint-Ventre carriers and possible OneWorld partners. If there are no sensible options, document it (take a picture). Also try the BA app, it may work when the website doesn't, or vice versa. Take a screenshot of any errors you get when trying to log in or do anything reasonable.
Try calling the call centre. You probably won't get through in a sensible length of time, but document that you made several calls. Take a screenshot and save it.
If you have made reasonable attempts to contact BA and have not been able to do so, this now puts you in a strong position to organise your own onward travel arrangements, and to claim the difference from BA later. You need to act reasonably, choose travel arrangements that are similar where possible to what you had purchased from BA, and where possible you should document with photos or screen shots that the actions you are taking are reasonable, there are no other cheaper options. Even if you don't plan to use it for booking, use a comparison service to show current market costs for the transport you are choosing. BA should respond positively to customer service claims for the cost of onward transport where you can show that BA were unable to provide you timely assistance to rebook. You should do this bearing in mind what coverage you might have from your own travel insurance policy and whether your planned trip is salvageable or if it is entirely in vain and should be abandoned. Note that BA are not responsible for consequential costs beyond their initial contract for transport, but any insurance you may have could be.
BA have a duty of care under the UK successor to EU Regulation 261/2004 and based upon forum experience the following costs would usually be claimable from BA without any significant pushback.
£25 for reasonable meal/refreshment expenses (per adult per day)
2 reasonable phone calls per customer
If an overnight stay is required in a location a significant distance from your home address
£200 for a hotel room (for 2 people)
£50 Transport to/from the airport (round trip)
Although BA has suggested some guideline costs for duty of care as indicated above, EU Regulation 261/2004 doesn't specify any monetary cap. By documenting (take a screen capture of a hotel comparison site for example) that there were no cheaper alternatives, it is possible that claims exceeding the guideline costs suggested by BA may be met, but having additional evidence or justification for costs going over these limits would be sensible. Expenses not covered by BA may be claimable from your travel insurance subject to possible policy excesses.
Duty of care is separate from fixed sum compensation (EUR 250 to 600 depending on the flight distance) for flight delays/cancellations, which may or may not be payable under EU Regulation 261/2004 depending on whether BA can show that the flight delay was caused by 'extraordinary circumstances' and that it took 'all reasonable measures' to avoid the resulting delay. Also, airlines do not usually entertain claims for consequential losses (for example, the cost of prepaid accomodation which you can't now use), so you would need to look to your travel insurance for these costs.
EU Regulation 261/2004 does not cover delayed/damaged/lost baggage. The Montreal Convention sets an upper limit for delayed/damaged/lost baggage compensation. For more information, visit the BA.com webpage on delayed/damaged/lost baggage - see https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...amaged-baggage
Set your expectation for the turnaround time for any refunds, claims, etc. It could be more like weeks rather than days, consider this if cashflow is concern.
You can read the forum thread for guidance on EU Regulation 261/2004 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...61-2004-a.html or check back on these forums later for more advice on claiming, but first of all look after yourself during this disruption.
"Systems Down" 22-26 Feb 2022 [General discussion]
Feb 22, 2022, 5:15 am
#61
Join Date: Sep 2010
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 255
Got a flight at 6pm this evening, MAN-MAD on IB metal, ticket issued by BA as avios reward flight
realised yesterday there was a problem as it was saying booking cancelled, called gold line who said for some reason booking had dropped out the system on the Iberia side, we had done nothing wrong and they would fix it. Either by getting Iberia to open up another avios seat to replace the dropped booking, or just charging them for a cash ticket replacement
said I would get an email a couple hours later (that was 2pm yesterday afternoon). Never got an email, but can see in the booking this morning they’ve done something, as each sector is now showing 2 bookings if that makes sense, like they’ve booked me another seat on the flight for each sector. However on Iberia website with the booking ref I am still unable to checkin or select seats and cannot even tell if the ticket has been reissued properly, or at all.
called gold line an hour ago who obvs said all systems down and they can’t even look at a booking.
So, my question is this, gonna get to MAN airport 3.5hrs early so there’s time to try and fix things if they say I can’t checkin or BA haven’t done ticket properly. If it cannot get fixed and it looks like I cannot fly, am I within my rights at that point to book a new one-way cash ticket there and then, at whatever cost, and just charge/claim thru BA for it after the event for their cock ups
realised yesterday there was a problem as it was saying booking cancelled, called gold line who said for some reason booking had dropped out the system on the Iberia side, we had done nothing wrong and they would fix it. Either by getting Iberia to open up another avios seat to replace the dropped booking, or just charging them for a cash ticket replacement
said I would get an email a couple hours later (that was 2pm yesterday afternoon). Never got an email, but can see in the booking this morning they’ve done something, as each sector is now showing 2 bookings if that makes sense, like they’ve booked me another seat on the flight for each sector. However on Iberia website with the booking ref I am still unable to checkin or select seats and cannot even tell if the ticket has been reissued properly, or at all.
called gold line an hour ago who obvs said all systems down and they can’t even look at a booking.
So, my question is this, gonna get to MAN airport 3.5hrs early so there’s time to try and fix things if they say I can’t checkin or BA haven’t done ticket properly. If it cannot get fixed and it looks like I cannot fly, am I within my rights at that point to book a new one-way cash ticket there and then, at whatever cost, and just charge/claim thru BA for it after the event for their cock ups
Feb 22, 2022, 5:42 am
#62
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 340
And if you aren’t strong at managing your tech and keeping an eye on the TCS team, you are truly in for a world of hurt and a lot higher costs long-term than any savings you saw on paper.
Feb 22, 2022, 8:17 am
#66
Join Date: Jun 2017
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 231
Not unsurprising given number of SH cancellations - can’t check aggregate numbers but a sample check shows GLA, BRU, my WAW etc all due to depart in last 30 mins scratched from the schedule…
Feb 22, 2022, 8:50 am
#67
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
Feb 22, 2022, 4:46 pm
#70
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 33
I have been stranded overnight in Madrid due to my flight being cancelled last minute. I was flying from Malaga via Madrid to LHR on business class - and didn't find out until after I had arrived in Madrid - now been rebooked for tomorrow in economy as there are no business seats left.
What slightly irritates is that the email they send you just says 'a message from British airways about your flight' - and then you have to read down the text in small font to see they are informing you its been cancelled! Please BA - why not say in big text this email is about your flight being cancelled. And at Madrid the screens were still showing the flight as departing ok - but with gate details awaited when I got there and it was still showing this when I left for my hotel.
I booked my tickets with Iberia - but they were no help at Madrid and said its BA and nothing to do with them. I then had to leave airside and head for the BA check in desks in departure which was staffed by someone from Iberia!
I was more annoyed by Iberia's attitude frankly - their customer service desk wouldn't even give me a free lounge pass for my rebooked flight even though I booked to fly business even though the Iberia agent at the BA rebooking desk said they would and would also assist with hotel bookings. The Iberia customer services desk refused to help at all and sent me packing.
I checked online and BA were charging over 700 euros for the few remaining economy seats tomorrow (now today) from Madrid to LHR. They clearly made a lot of money from the last minute desperate bookers. By contrast Easyjet were only charging 150 euros to Gatwick.
What slightly irritates is that the email they send you just says 'a message from British airways about your flight' - and then you have to read down the text in small font to see they are informing you its been cancelled! Please BA - why not say in big text this email is about your flight being cancelled. And at Madrid the screens were still showing the flight as departing ok - but with gate details awaited when I got there and it was still showing this when I left for my hotel.
I booked my tickets with Iberia - but they were no help at Madrid and said its BA and nothing to do with them. I then had to leave airside and head for the BA check in desks in departure which was staffed by someone from Iberia!
I was more annoyed by Iberia's attitude frankly - their customer service desk wouldn't even give me a free lounge pass for my rebooked flight even though I booked to fly business even though the Iberia agent at the BA rebooking desk said they would and would also assist with hotel bookings. The Iberia customer services desk refused to help at all and sent me packing.
I checked online and BA were charging over 700 euros for the few remaining economy seats tomorrow (now today) from Madrid to LHR. They clearly made a lot of money from the last minute desperate bookers. By contrast Easyjet were only charging 150 euros to Gatwick.
Last edited by MARTYM8; Feb 22, 2022 at 5:07 pm
Feb 22, 2022, 5:15 pm
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: LON, ACK, BOS..... (Not necessarily in that order)
Programs: **Mucci Diamond Hairbrush** - compared to that nothing else matters (+BA Bronze)
Posts: 15,132
BA doesn't own an IT department anymore, and therein lies the problem. IAG GBS runs the show, has run it since sometimes in 2017/18, which is also coincidentally when it all went to sh*te.
[Brief historic excursus plus soapbox rant]
BA had an IT department which, however fraught with faults, managed to keep the incredibly complex IT structure of the airline alive. BA's IT architecture was, back in 2016/17, a maze. A mixture of in-house developed software, legacy stuff, new and shiny toys and LOTS of bespoke software. BA managed to take SAP and change it so much that SAP themselves had said "Nope. We ain't touching that anymore". It was a world in need of large investment, not only with the introduction of Altea, but there were many more things to do: cloud computing, APIs, better interoperability, new systems needed for cabin crew/flight crew scheduling, flight scheduling and so on.
[Brief historic excursus plus soapbox rant]
BA had an IT department which, however fraught with faults, managed to keep the incredibly complex IT structure of the airline alive. BA's IT architecture was, back in 2016/17, a maze. A mixture of in-house developed software, legacy stuff, new and shiny toys and LOTS of bespoke software. BA managed to take SAP and change it so much that SAP themselves had said "Nope. We ain't touching that anymore". It was a world in need of large investment, not only with the introduction of Altea, but there were many more things to do: cloud computing, APIs, better interoperability, new systems needed for cabin crew/flight crew scheduling, flight scheduling and so on.
“Controversial means it’ll lose you votes, Courageous means it’ll lose you the election.”
Last edited by Jimmie76; Feb 22, 2022 at 7:16 pm
