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The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Jun 21, 22, 6:56 am
  #1426  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
They weren't cancelled at the same time, it was 2 days between the cancellations being done.

I mean if that's your argument that cancellations done at the same time on one booking is deemed 1 cancellation which may be a fair point of view, what's the minimum time between cancellations until it get's viewed as two cancellation events rather than one?
There have been some cases where 2 lots of compensation has been paid (usually involving court processes, it has to be said). So one case was a late cancellation, leading to a rebooked flight, different flight numbers. In turn that new flight was heavily delayed in its own right. So these look like 2 unrelated incidents, and thus 2 lots of compensation. Now on a sense check basis this looks to me to be one incident - lack of staff - affecting two flights, but at separate times. To my mind this looks like 1 incident, but other people will be able to coherently argue it's 2 incidents. Obviously you can apply for 2 incidents and take it to CEDR if necessary, I suspect that they will call it one incident, but that's just a guess. MCOL may be more successful, but even then I can see a judge taking a broader view here and regard one payment as fixing the injury.

The hotel and train fare is claimable, but it's worth reiterating that BA can ticket on LNER, it's just that many agents are unaware they can do so.
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corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old Jun 21, 22, 7:15 am
  #1427  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Quick sense check.

Last weekend I went to ARN. On the ay out on Friday I got an email saying my ARN-LHR and ARN-NCL flights for Sunday were cancelled. On checking actually it was only the LHR-NCL which was actually cancelled, reason code OPEY. Anyway called BA, only avia;ability to NCL or MAN on Sunday were the ~9pm flights so I stuck with my 1110 departure from ARN and agree to cancel off the domestic and get the train home instead.

Roll on Sunday, woke up and thought I would check whether the ARN-LHR flight looked on time. Showed as cancelled in the app, no email or text. Reason code OPEY. Nothing available for the rest of the day so was booked on the flight on Monday. A few hours later The 2110 flight on Sunday showed J1 so called back and got on that. Overnight at LHR (I was frugal and booked the PI T4) and train home on Monday morning.

So my questions. Firstly it seems to me this is two cancellations so two lots of compensation are due. Do I do a completely separate claim for each cancellation? Also I think the hotel and train costs are claimable, probably best to attach them to the claim for ARN-LHR? I had no other option to get home since I was arriving back in to LHR at 2300.
I concur.
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Tobias-UK is offline  
Old Jun 21, 22, 9:02 am
  #1428  
 
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Wanted to get the thoughts of others on a EU261 claim I put in and BA's response handling.

I was traveling from AUS to LHR on BA190 on 25th May 2022, the flight departed over 4 hours late from AUS with really no explanation from the airline other than the inbound service to AUS from LHR (BA191) was delayed leaving LHR. We arrived into LHR well over 4 hours late.

BA contact centre claim that BA190 was delayed due to air traffic control restrictions and no compensation is due because of this. I did a quick check online I can see flights leaving both AUS and LHR with minimal delays that day so struggling to see where they claim air traffic was the cause of the problem, other BA flights leaving LHR that day that I spot checked seemed to be fine.

Initially I spotted the delay on the inbound service, so I called the BA call centre, they could only offer me a AUS > CLT > LHR rerouting to get me home at a reasonable time (no other seats anywhere else apparently), I accepted this however the AUS > CLT leg was delayed departure and would have caused me to miss the CLT > LHR leg so I was put back to my original booking. Unfortunately my bags were loaded onto the CLT flights and didn't turn up until much later.

Should I go with BA's decision or pursue an appeal? Also what are people find as the best routes to appeal?
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Old Jun 21, 22, 9:06 am
  #1429  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
It's down as OPEY, operational and potentially yes to EC261 (and probably really means a shortage of crew). I doubt you are in the frame for compensation though if rebooked 20 minutes earlier, the allowed time frame is 1 hour before schedulded departure to 2 hours after scheduled arrival. The basis of this would have to be the time difference of the two different airports. You can move to other services -3 days to plus 14 days minimum, maybe more under the COVID-19 guidelines, but I would struggle to see the basis for Right to Care if you did move to another flight given the alternative. You indicate that LCY doesn't work for you, so you would need to convince BA / CEDR / MCOL that this reason somehow over-rides BA's rebooking alternative.
Hi,

Just to follow-up on this BA have come back relatively quickly and offered compensation according to the EU261 rates but at 50% as I departed the evening before, is this correct?
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Old Jun 21, 22, 9:07 am
  #1430  
 
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BA254 from BGI on 18 June into LHR on 19 June was delayed by almost three hours, landing at 08:45, according to FlightRadar24, the incoming flight having been delayed out of LHR, where the plane had sat for a couple of days since previous use. We then sat on the tarmac for a while waiting for steps to arrive, the captain saying we were caught between BA and the airport, both of whom were short-staffed. However, we were parked at the wrong terminal, T5, when the flight was due into T3. The flight was meant to arrive at 06:30, doors were opened at 09:22, the first bus departed at 09:25 and it arrived at T3 at 09:32 (I took a photo from inside the bus to prove the time), at which point the bus doors were opened, two minutes over three hours. Is there merit in claiming that, since the aeroplane had arrived at the wrong terminal, plane doors open isn't the right metric, but bus doors is, as that's analogous to plane doors opening onto a jet bridge at the correct terminal?
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:02 am
  #1431  
 
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Interesting first response from Customer Services today to a claim for cancelled flight compensation I made in March. No claim made for alternative travel arrangements.

I'd like to inform you that in order to investigate your claim for EU compensation, we'd require the proof of your alternative travel arrangement to xxx showing the planned departure and arrival timings. This maybe a boarding pass, e-ticket receipt, or a proof of travel from the operating airlines. I'd request you to please send us any of these documents by clicking here.

Maybe by coincicdence I got my first response from CEDR an hour earlier, asking me to confirm that I had waited more than 8 weeks before contacting them (I thought I had already done this in the claim).
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:08 am
  #1432  
 
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Originally Posted by haroon145 View Post
Hi,

Just to follow-up on this BA have come back relatively quickly and offered compensation according to the EU261 rates but at 50% as I departed the evening before, is this correct?
Yes, this is correct as you arrived early 50% compensation is due. There's earlier reports of being able to wrangle 100% out of them but it's certainly not to be expected and would be a battle you may not win.
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:14 am
  #1433  
 
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Originally Posted by LSunbury View Post
Maybe by coincicdence I got my first response from CEDR an hour earlier, asking me to confirm that I had waited more than 8 weeks before contacting them (I thought I had already done this in the claim).
I had an initial CEDR response, several days after the 15 working day assessment period had expired, similarly asking for proof of 8 week elapsed time or a deadlock letter. I pointed them to the Deadlock letter which was uploaded as part of my initial claim (clearly labeled as such). CEDR then advised they would be taking a further 15 working day period to consider the "new evidence". One can't help but wonder if they are inundated with claims and are not giving proper consideration to documentation provided, in order to reset the clock and buy themselves more time. Frustrating.
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:22 am
  #1434  
 
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Originally Posted by JeffBHD View Post
I had an initial CEDR response, several days after the 15 working day assessment period had expired, similarly asking for proof of 8 week elapsed time or a deadlock letter. I pointed them to the Deadlock letter which was uploaded as part of my initial claim (clearly labeled as such). CEDR then advised they would be taking a further 15 working day period to consider the "new evidence". One can't help but wonder if they are inundated with claims and are not giving proper consideration to documentation provided, in order to reset the clock and buy themselves more time. Frustrating.
Indeed, a lot of patience is going to be required.
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:27 am
  #1435  
 
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In March I was booked on TLV-LHR-IAD in First.

TLVLHR was cancelled more than 14 days out. Rebooked on the only remaining flight, but in business.

Wrote in requesting refund of overnight hotel expenses (paid) and downgrade compensation (refused, as my original flight was cancelled for “operational reasons”).

This seems off to me: they sold me an F ticket and I flew in J.

More of them just trying to push customers away, right?
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:30 am
  #1436  
 
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Originally Posted by hshs View Post
BA254 from BGI on 18 June into LHR on 19 June was delayed by almost three hours, landing at 08:45, according to FlightRadar24, the incoming flight having been delayed out of LHR, where the plane had sat for a couple of days since previous use. We then sat on the tarmac for a while waiting for steps to arrive, the captain saying we were caught between BA and the airport, both of whom were short-staffed. However, we were parked at the wrong terminal, T5, when the flight was due into T3. The flight was meant to arrive at 06:30, doors were opened at 09:22, the first bus departed at 09:25 and it arrived at T3 at 09:32 (I took a photo from inside the bus to prove the time), at which point the bus doors were opened, two minutes over three hours. Is there merit in claiming that, since the aeroplane had arrived at the wrong terminal, plane doors open isn't the right metric, but bus doors is, as that's analogous to plane doors opening onto a jet bridge at the correct terminal?
No, the plane arrived at gate at the correct airport within 3 hours; albeit at another terminal. There seems to be no grounds to include time spend on the bus going to the terminal (in the same way that it not when you walk into the terminal from the airbridge).
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:33 am
  #1437  
 
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Originally Posted by makin'miles View Post
In March I was booked on TLV-LHR-IAD in First.

TLVLHR was cancelled more than 14 days out. Rebooked on the only remaining flight, but in business.

Wrote in requesting refund of overnight hotel expenses (paid) and downgrade compensation (refused, as my original flight was cancelled for “operational reasons”).

This seems off to me: they sold me an F ticket and I flew in J.

More of them just trying to push customers away, right?
This is not downgrade. You were rebooked well in advance and possibly could have insisted on being rebooked to another flight/day with F available, i.e. you traveled as (re)booked. Fare difference for this segment is due though.
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:41 am
  #1438  
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Originally Posted by makin'miles View Post
Wrote in requesting refund of overnight hotel expenses (paid) and downgrade compensation (refused, as my original flight was cancelled for “operational reasons”).

This seems off to me: they sold me an F ticket and I flew in J.
You are entitled to downgrade reimbursement (but not compensation) but it certainly helps if you had a telephone call with BA to see what other First options were open to you. If you accepted the downgrade without comment then they may assume you were OK with the new arrangements. However if the flight number stayed the same and you were placed in Club World then you should be OK for the Mennens formula (see wiki). In other words, it depends on the details.
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Old Jun 21, 22, 10:48 am
  #1439  
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Originally Posted by hshs View Post
Is there merit in claiming that, since the aeroplane had arrived at the wrong terminal, plane doors open isn't the right metric, but bus doors is, as that's analogous to plane doors opening onto a jet bridge at the correct terminal?
I don't think there is merit in this one. When the CJEU ruled on this it was in connection with a manually operated stairway, which could have involved walking into a terminal or on to a bus or satellite. And while T3 is some distance from T5, it's probably shorter than some of the distances that you would have walked in places like AMS or CDG. Now if you were going all the way to CJEU with an argument based on equal treatment then may be the bus delay would be added, but that simply isn't where we are. Moreover if you consider all the other things that can delay you at an arriving airport, such as late return of luggage, this is not in scope for EC261 either, this seems to be in the same operational category, and it's often the same workforce that handle airbrdiges, buses, stairways, luggage.. Maybe it should be part of EC261, but it simply isn't as things stand.
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Old Jun 21, 22, 11:11 am
  #1440  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I don't think there is merit in this one. When the CJEU ruled on this it was in connection with a manually operated stairway, which could have involved walking into a terminal or on to a bus or satellite. And while T3 is some distance from T5, it's probably shorter than some of the distances that you would have walked in places like AMS or CDG. Now if you were going all the way to CJEU with an argument based on equal treatment then may be the bus delay would be added, but that simply isn't where we are. Moreover if you consider all the other things that can delay you at an arriving airport, such as late return of luggage, this is not in scope for EC261 either, this seems to be in the same operational category, and it's often the same workforce that handle airbrdiges, buses, stairways, luggage.. Maybe it should be part of EC261, but it simply isn't as things stand.
Thanks for the analysis - I suspected it was rather a long shot, but appreciate the advice from more experienced heads.
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