How I would transform BA short-haul
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: England
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 1,006
How I would transform BA short-haul
Under the present circumstances, I can’t see anything changing whilst traffic is down 85% on a normal year. I doubt that there is the demand to justify a return to complimentary catering in economy and decent knee room throughout the cabin.
#3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Programs: BAEC, AA, Emirates, Hilton, Hyatt, Taj Hotels
Posts: 2,345
ET pax have been the net gainers here. All other cabins have suffered 'enhancements'.
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK.
Programs: SQ LPPS, A3 *G, BA Silver aiming for Bronze
Posts: 1,506
Qantas over recent years have demonstrated that there is room for a decent economy product alongside a low cost one. On almost every domestic route they are up against Jetstar, Tiger and Virgin albeit the last one is a confused mess. Jetstar and Tiger are costs to the bone as ruthlessly as Ryanair. Qantas economy fares are no where near Jetstar or Tiger fares with a few odd exceptions and yet their economy cabins are usually full because not everyone wants a low cost experience and those with one world status will choose Qantas. QF domestic business is also a differentiated product with twelve 2x2 seats at the front of the plane and if you get a long haul sub you score very well.
I would say there is room for a premium carrier but Walsh particularly was amazed by O'Leary and felt he had to mimick the Ryanair operation and apply it to every class to be successful. Qantas demonstrates that he was wrong.
When BoB was introduced I remember hearing a number of people saying there was no longer a reason to fly BA because the differentiation had gone but it still cost more. It still does cost more and always will so they need to justify it.
I would say there is room for a premium carrier but Walsh particularly was amazed by O'Leary and felt he had to mimick the Ryanair operation and apply it to every class to be successful. Qantas demonstrates that he was wrong.
When BoB was introduced I remember hearing a number of people saying there was no longer a reason to fly BA because the differentiation had gone but it still cost more. It still does cost more and always will so they need to justify it.
#5
Join Date: Mar 2020
Programs: British Airways GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond & Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,612
Does anyone know the % of bookings on BA which are tagged with a BAEC account v the number that do not partake the in the program? Trying to figure out if everyone who flies BA is clued up and loyal or if the large % is just occasional user who goes on price/flight times.
#7
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,440
There are many people who will choose BA because of the brand and believe it’s better. Last year I was on a flight from AMS-LGW and I overheard someone say that they were happy to pay a bit more for BA over easyJet because it’s more reliable and better. Whether that’s true or not is another question, but many people do perceive BA as better than LCCs. The Vueling brand is not known here in the UK and people would easily pick Easyjet over them.
What’s more, BA can have very large CE cabins on these SH LGW routes. If these routes are taken over by Vueling, where would this premium traffic go?
For now BA have enough room to get all these LGW routes into LHR, but by 2024 airports should be full again. Then they’ll need to operate these lower margin holiday routes from another airport.
#8
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DEL
Programs: Mucci du Miel d'Or
Posts: 2,375
I'm not sure there is much to be learnt from the Australian model besides fares are much higher in a duopoly.
#9
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: BHD/DUB/PTY
Programs: BA Silver / EI Silver
Posts: 419
That would be good for expectation management. BA short haul is not on par with other European legacy carriers. Can't say much about Club Europe, but haven't heard many great things about it.
#10
Join Date: Mar 2020
Programs: British Airways GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond & Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,612
Yes, very bad in my opinion.
There are many people who will choose BA because of the brand and believe it’s better. Last year I was on a flight from AMS-LGW and I overheard someone say that they were happy to pay a bit more for BA over easyJet because it’s more reliable and better. Whether that’s true or not is another question, but many people do perceive BA as better than LCCs. The Vueling brand is not known here in the UK and people would easily pick Easyjet over them.
What’s more, BA can have very large CE cabins on these SH LGW routes. If these routes are taken over by Vueling, where would this premium traffic go?
For now BA have enough room to get all these LGW routes into LHR, but by 2024 airports should be full again. Then they’ll need to operate these lower margin holiday routes from another airport.
There are many people who will choose BA because of the brand and believe it’s better. Last year I was on a flight from AMS-LGW and I overheard someone say that they were happy to pay a bit more for BA over easyJet because it’s more reliable and better. Whether that’s true or not is another question, but many people do perceive BA as better than LCCs. The Vueling brand is not known here in the UK and people would easily pick Easyjet over them.
What’s more, BA can have very large CE cabins on these SH LGW routes. If these routes are taken over by Vueling, where would this premium traffic go?
For now BA have enough room to get all these LGW routes into LHR, but by 2024 airports should be full again. Then they’ll need to operate these lower margin holiday routes from another airport.
Fold Vueling into OW
Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH
BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.
A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR
So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.
If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.
If you want to go one step further - fold Aer Lingus into Veuling (and OW) and have it as its low cost Atlantic operation - (think a321 LR ) - LGW/MAN/BCN/DUBetc can be a feeder hub into Aer Lingus (who want to do more from UK/EMEA).
Id therefore have 3 divisions of IAG - BA, Veuling, Iberia.
Last edited by PGberkshire; Oct 12, 2020 at 10:10 am
#11
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK - Hampshire & London
Programs: Mucci de Guardian des Celliers des Grands Crus 1e Classé, plus BAEC.
Posts: 2,734
#12
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: BA Exec Club
Posts: 956
Well if we are daydreaming, then why not this?
Fold Vueling into OW
Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH
BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.
A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR
So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.
If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.
Fold Vueling into OW
Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH
BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.
A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR
So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.
If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.
#14
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Mucci, BAEC Silver, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 1,038
Well if we are daydreaming, then why not this?
Fold Vueling into OW
Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH
BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.
A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR
So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.
If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.
If you want to go one step further - fold Aer Lingus into Veuling (and OW) and have it as its low cost Atlantic operation - (think a321 LR ) - LGW/MAN/BCN/DUBetc can be a feeder hub into Aer Lingus (who want to do more from UK/EMEA).
Id therefore have 3 divisions of IAG - BA, Veuling, Iberia.
Fold Vueling into OW
Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH
BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.
A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR
So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.
If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.
If you want to go one step further - fold Aer Lingus into Veuling (and OW) and have it as its low cost Atlantic operation - (think a321 LR ) - LGW/MAN/BCN/DUBetc can be a feeder hub into Aer Lingus (who want to do more from UK/EMEA).
Id therefore have 3 divisions of IAG - BA, Veuling, Iberia.
#15
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Mucci, BAEC Silver, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 1,038
i genuinely think this makes sense. And that is what I would use that max order to do with vueling out of LGW. Take out those slim seats and put in proper ones. Bring back that table in CE at least and some type of free food. I think you can offer a good service and be profitable in the billions I think if you we want BA to stop trying to be everything to everybody it has to take off the gas from trying to compete with The LCCs without the group losing market share.
I have no problem with the LCC approach to Economy - it is basically what the marked demands, but fills planes and helps increase network size and frequency. But BA should be focusing on a better service for people that want to pay more and this is what WT+, CE, CW & F should be for.
Last edited by Akoz; Oct 12, 2020 at 10:28 am