Originally Posted by opus99

Would it be a bad idea to allow vueling take on the LCCs out of Gatwick and let BA be full premium?

Originally Posted by opus99

i genuinely think this makes sense. And that is what I would use that max order to do with vueling out of LGW. Take out those slim seats and put in proper ones. Bring back that table in CE at least and some type of free food. I think you can offer a good service and be profitable in the billions I think if you we want BA to stop trying to be everything to everybody it has to take off the gas from trying to compete with The LCCs without the group losing market share.

Originally Posted by PGberkshire

Well if we are daydreaming, then why not this?

Fold Vueling into OW

Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH

BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.

A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR

So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.

If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.

If you want to go one step further - fold Aer Lingus into Veuling (and OW) and have it as its low cost Atlantic operation - (think a321 LR ) - LGW/MAN/BCN/DUBetc can be a feeder hub into Aer Lingus (who want to do more from UK/EMEA).

Id therefore have 3 divisions of IAG - BA, Veuling, Iberia.

Originally Posted by 13901

BA did precisely the opposite, densified A321s from 188 to 220 seats and that, plus other things, turned short haul to profitability. Turn them back to 188 and to keep the current level of revenue out of those very same planes they need to charge 17-20% percent more than they charge today (and they'll lose market share). Are you going to pay for that? Call me a cheapskate but I most certainly ain't. I'm a cheap arse and want to fly for the least amount of money.



Another thing I'll never understand of people's thoughts about IAG is that Vueling is by definition cheaper to operate than BA. If you look at non-fuel CASKs at both airlines, BA's marginally higher than Vueling (4.8 eurocents vs 4.4 once you factor in a bit of exchange rate). And BA operates a much more expensive way of operating, with night stops and so on.

Originally Posted by ISTFlyer

I gave the same idea in the "BA to pull out of Gatwick" thread.
Vueling and LEVEL could easily takeover BA and probably IAG would make more profit as well.

It would satisfy the people living in Southern London, although BA consolidating operations in Heathrow would mean more connecting passengers with more connections available, less operational costs ( no need for the LGW lounge, etc... ), and I am still behind the point that people who used to fly out from LGW and prefer BA would still drive to Heathrow to fly BA. You might disagree with me at this point, although we saw when Alex Cruz introduced BoB in Y and seating fees for long-haul J for pax without status. BA's load percentage wasn't decreased and they were making more profit compared to the past.

Originally Posted by opus99

i genuinely think this makes sense. And that is what I would use that max order to do with vueling out of LGW. Take out those slim seats and put in proper ones. Bring back that table in CE at least and some type of free food. I think you can offer a good service and be profitable in the billions I think if you we want BA to stop trying to be everything to everybody it has to take off the gas from trying to compete with The LCCs without the group losing market share.

Originally Posted by PGberkshire

Well if we are daydreaming, then why not this?

Fold Vueling into OW

Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH

BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.

A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR

So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.

If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.

If you want to go one step further - fold Aer Lingus into Veuling (and OW) and have it as its low cost Atlantic operation - (think a321 LR ) - LGW/MAN/BCN/DUBetc can be a feeder hub into Aer Lingus (who want to do more from UK/EMEA).

Id therefore have 3 divisions of IAG - BA, Veuling, Iberia.

Originally Posted by opus99

Would it be a bad idea to allow vueling take on the LCCs out of Gatwick and let BA be full premium?

Originally Posted by bafan

Shouldn’t BA just be honest about Club Europe - that it’s really a premium economy product, rather than a true business class?

Originally Posted by opus99

I mean we don’t have to go back to 188, i think we can still densify with more comfortable seats. If you look at the new Geven seats at LH group gives LH about 215 in the 321neo. There are comfortable seats that allow you densify. It doesn’t have to be the extreme 220 with hard rock seats and zero recline. I think it’s finding the right balance. Look I’m all for being cost efficient. That’s what’s made BA deliver the profits they have. But you also have to balance that with brand value etc. Vueling can focus on really offering that full LCC product. I mean I definitely don’t have the answers but I just think it could work

Originally Posted by Agent69

I appreciate that the need for flexibility requires a moveable curtain to demarcate cabins on SH, but I have often wondered if there is a place for CE+ on SH routes. Say the front 2 rows on all planes are 2 + 2, a bit more leg room, more recline and with proper IFE.

Originally Posted by bisonrav

I love how these always become "design an airline that's just right for my own travel patterns".

Originally Posted by PGberkshire

especially on the longer routes. also asian airlines have SH routes with decent business on, so some airlines can commit to a fixed number of J seats

Originally Posted by opus99

I really do question the viability of that model in Europe. You should also note that Asian “short haul” can be quite long for the busiest routes especially