How I would transform BA short-haul

Old Oct 12, 20, 8:58 am
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How I would transform BA short-haul

Originally Posted by RoyalSwazi View Post
Am I the only one thinking the title of Chief Transformation Officer is rather silly?
Transformation into what? A full lo-cost European service?

Under the present circumstances, I canít see anything changing whilst traffic is down 85% on a normal year. I doubt that there is the demand to justify a return to complimentary catering in economy and decent knee room throughout the cabin.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:22 am
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Yep, BA to fly long haul only, Vueling for all intra-European.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:23 am
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Originally Posted by Nimrod1965 View Post
........
Under the present circumstances, I canít see anything changing whilst traffic is down 85% on a normal year. I doubt that there is the demand to justify a return to complimentary catering in economy and decent knee room throughout the cabin.
Not sure what you are getting at, but with the discontinuation of BoB BA have, to their credit, reverted to complimentary catering in ET.
ET pax have been the net gainers here. All other cabins have suffered 'enhancements'.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:28 am
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Qantas over recent years have demonstrated that there is room for a decent economy product alongside a low cost one. On almost every domestic route they are up against Jetstar, Tiger and Virgin albeit the last one is a confused mess. Jetstar and Tiger are costs to the bone as ruthlessly as Ryanair. Qantas economy fares are no where near Jetstar or Tiger fares with a few odd exceptions and yet their economy cabins are usually full because not everyone wants a low cost experience and those with one world status will choose Qantas. QF domestic business is also a differentiated product with twelve 2x2 seats at the front of the plane and if you get a long haul sub you score very well.

I would say there is room for a premium carrier but Walsh particularly was amazed by O'Leary and felt he had to mimick the Ryanair operation and apply it to every class to be successful. Qantas demonstrates that he was wrong.

When BoB was introduced I remember hearing a number of people saying there was no longer a reason to fly BA because the differentiation had gone but it still cost more. It still does cost more and always will so they need to justify it.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:28 am
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Does anyone know the % of bookings on BA which are tagged with a BAEC account v the number that do not partake the in the program? Trying to figure out if everyone who flies BA is clued up and loyal or if the large % is just occasional user who goes on price/flight times.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:30 am
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Would it be a bad idea to allow vueling take on the LCCs out of Gatwick and let BA be full premium?
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:44 am
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Originally Posted by opus99 View Post
Would it be a bad idea to allow vueling take on the LCCs out of Gatwick and let BA be full premium?
Yes, very bad in my opinion.

There are many people who will choose BA because of the brand and believe itís better. Last year I was on a flight from AMS-LGW and I overheard someone say that they were happy to pay a bit more for BA over easyJet because itís more reliable and better. Whether thatís true or not is another question, but many people do perceive BA as better than LCCs. The Vueling brand is not known here in the UK and people would easily pick Easyjet over them.

Whatís more, BA can have very large CE cabins on these SH LGW routes. If these routes are taken over by Vueling, where would this premium traffic go?

For now BA have enough room to get all these LGW routes into LHR, but by 2024 airports should be full again. Then theyíll need to operate these lower margin holiday routes from another airport.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:51 am
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Originally Posted by lhrpete View Post
I would say there is room for a premium carrier but Walsh particularly was amazed by O'Leary and felt he had to mimick the Ryanair operation and apply it to every class to be successful. Qantas demonstrates that he was wrong.
I'm not sure there is much to be learnt from the Australian model besides fares are much higher in a duopoly.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:56 am
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Originally Posted by opus99 View Post
Would it be a bad idea to allow vueling take on the LCCs out of Gatwick and let BA be full premium?
That would be good for expectation management. BA short haul is not on par with other European legacy carriers. Can't say much about Club Europe, but haven't heard many great things about it.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:57 am
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Originally Posted by BAeuro View Post
Yes, very bad in my opinion.

There are many people who will choose BA because of the brand and believe itís better. Last year I was on a flight from AMS-LGW and I overheard someone say that they were happy to pay a bit more for BA over easyJet because itís more reliable and better. Whether thatís true or not is another question, but many people do perceive BA as better than LCCs. The Vueling brand is not known here in the UK and people would easily pick Easyjet over them.

Whatís more, BA can have very large CE cabins on these SH LGW routes. If these routes are taken over by Vueling, where would this premium traffic go?

For now BA have enough room to get all these LGW routes into LHR, but by 2024 airports should be full again. Then theyíll need to operate these lower margin holiday routes from another airport.
Well if we are daydreaming, then why not this?

Fold Vueling into OW

Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH

BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.

A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR

So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.

If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.

If you want to go one step further - fold Aer Lingus into Veuling (and OW) and have it as its low cost Atlantic operation - (think a321 LR ) - LGW/MAN/BCN/DUBetc can be a feeder hub into Aer Lingus (who want to do more from UK/EMEA).

Id therefore have 3 divisions of IAG - BA, Veuling, Iberia.
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Last edited by PGberkshire; Oct 12, 20 at 10:10 am
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Old Oct 12, 20, 9:58 am
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Originally Posted by Nimrod1965 View Post
Yep, BA to fly long haul only, Vueling for all intra-European.
That has an infinitesimally small chance of happening.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 10:08 am
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Originally Posted by PGberkshire View Post
Well if we are daydreaming, then why not this?

Fold Vueling into OW

Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH

BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.

A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR

So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.

If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.
i genuinely think this makes sense. And that is what I would use that max order to do with vueling out of LGW. Take out those slim seats and put in proper ones. Bring back that table in CE at least and some type of free food. I think you can offer a good service and be profitable in the billions I think if you we want BA to stop trying to be everything to everybody it has to take off the gas from trying to compete with The LCCs without the group losing market share.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 10:11 am
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Originally Posted by opus99 View Post
Would it be a bad idea to allow vueling take on the LCCs out of Gatwick and let BA be full premium?
YES. Don't even jest! or give them ideas.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 10:13 am
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Originally Posted by PGberkshire View Post
Well if we are daydreaming, then why not this?

Fold Vueling into OW

Vueling from LGW/MAN for LCC SH

BA from LHR with SH and LH - To justify the difference, SH will be more premium. So limited drinks service in Economy, with Snacks. Full Drinks service with good catering up front, and to really push to boat out new CE seats - perhaps WTP style.

A321NEO with full density out of MAN/LGW and a better more premium focused density out of LHR

So if you live in the South. you have a choice - low cost out of LGW. Lots of routes, earns TP (small amount), lounge access (more Aspire style than Club)
if you want premium or convenience / connections then LHR with better leg room, on board services and a much improved CE for those who want to spend the £, or are connecting to LHR for J or F.

If you live in the north, same. either direct with Veuling, or via LHR for BA.

If you want to go one step further - fold Aer Lingus into Veuling (and OW) and have it as its low cost Atlantic operation - (think a321 LR ) - LGW/MAN/BCN/DUBetc can be a feeder hub into Aer Lingus (who want to do more from UK/EMEA).

Id therefore have 3 divisions of IAG - BA, Veuling, Iberia.
That assumes people are happy to trudge over to LHR many people in the high value areas of South London, Surrey, Sussex and Kent are not. I prefer BA and like CE (particularly as my boss is happy to pay for it), but LGW is too close for me and so is my first option and if the choice is then LCC or LCC then why not just book EZY.
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Old Oct 12, 20, 10:22 am
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Originally Posted by opus99 View Post
i genuinely think this makes sense. And that is what I would use that max order to do with vueling out of LGW. Take out those slim seats and put in proper ones. Bring back that table in CE at least and some type of free food. I think you can offer a good service and be profitable in the billions I think if you we want BA to stop trying to be everything to everybody it has to take off the gas from trying to compete with The LCCs without the group losing market share.
I cant see this working. If BA do not attempt to compete with the LCC the group WILL loose market share. The group would need to spend tens of millions to publicise Vueling from LGW and even then much would go to EZY regardless. Plus the LGW fares keep the LHR fares honest. If BA thinks they could ditch LGW and increase fares from LHR then even more of the price sensitive people down the back go LCC to LTN, LGW & STN and the BA network gets smaller as a result, further reducing the attractiveness of BA.

I have no problem with the LCC approach to Economy - it is basically what the marked demands, but fills planes and helps increase network size and frequency. But BA should be focusing on a better service for people that want to pay more and this is what WT+, CE, CW & F should be for.

Last edited by Akoz; Oct 12, 20 at 10:28 am
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