A distressing embarrassment on BA249 LHR-GIG
Sep 8, 2019, 10:02 am
#16
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK - Hampshire & London
Programs: Mucci de Guardian des Celliers des Grands Crus 1e Classé, plus BAEC.
Posts: 2,737
Very sorry to hear what happened navylad. I can empathise with the embarrassment you felt.
A couple of points: (I’ll try to be dispassionate so forgive me if I come across as cold, that isn’t my intention.)
• The ultimate trigger for the incident was the CW CC’s lack of understanding of your condition and also, seemingly, of your hidden disability lanyard. This would be the focus of my complaint. Either poor briefing by the CSD to the CC (as you had pre-briefed BA) or bad on the spot judgement from the individual CC.
• I do think it is relevant to consider if you should have been travelling. I am sure that you, more than many, will have thought about your medical condition beforehand and made a considered judgement call. Perhaps you need to reflect on whether you made the wrong decision. From experience, when one makes a decision that goes on to have personal adverse consequences, it can be difficult to accept that one was wrong. The embarrassment factor could also cloud one’s reflection on the matter.
We all have our little wobbles, but I hope you will bounce back quickly. The gorgeous Brazilians in GIG should help! 😉
All the best, krispy84.
A couple of points: (I’ll try to be dispassionate so forgive me if I come across as cold, that isn’t my intention.)
• The ultimate trigger for the incident was the CW CC’s lack of understanding of your condition and also, seemingly, of your hidden disability lanyard. This would be the focus of my complaint. Either poor briefing by the CSD to the CC (as you had pre-briefed BA) or bad on the spot judgement from the individual CC.
• I do think it is relevant to consider if you should have been travelling. I am sure that you, more than many, will have thought about your medical condition beforehand and made a considered judgement call. Perhaps you need to reflect on whether you made the wrong decision. From experience, when one makes a decision that goes on to have personal adverse consequences, it can be difficult to accept that one was wrong. The embarrassment factor could also cloud one’s reflection on the matter.
We all have our little wobbles, but I hope you will bounce back quickly. The gorgeous Brazilians in GIG should help! 😉
All the best, krispy84.
Sep 8, 2019, 10:10 am
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
Very sorry to hear what happened navylad. I can empathise with the embarrassment you felt.
A couple of points: (I’ll try to be dispassionate so forgive me if I come across as cold, that isn’t my intention.)
• The ultimate trigger for the incident was the CW CC’s lack of understanding of your condition and also, seemingly, of your hidden disability lanyard. This would be the focus of my complaint. Either poor briefing by the CSD to the CC (as you had pre-briefed BA) or bad on the spot judgement from the individual CC.
• I do think it is relevant to consider if you should have been travelling. I am sure that you, more than many, will have thought about your medical condition beforehand and made a considered judgement call. Perhaps you need to reflect on whether you made the wrong decision. From experience, when one makes a decision that goes on to have personal adverse consequences, it can be difficult to accept that one was wrong. The embarrassment factor could also cloud one’s reflection on the matter.
We all have our little wobbles, but I hope you will bounce back quickly. The gorgeous Brazilians in GIG should help! 😉
All the best, krispy84.
A couple of points: (I’ll try to be dispassionate so forgive me if I come across as cold, that isn’t my intention.)
• The ultimate trigger for the incident was the CW CC’s lack of understanding of your condition and also, seemingly, of your hidden disability lanyard. This would be the focus of my complaint. Either poor briefing by the CSD to the CC (as you had pre-briefed BA) or bad on the spot judgement from the individual CC.
• I do think it is relevant to consider if you should have been travelling. I am sure that you, more than many, will have thought about your medical condition beforehand and made a considered judgement call. Perhaps you need to reflect on whether you made the wrong decision. From experience, when one makes a decision that goes on to have personal adverse consequences, it can be difficult to accept that one was wrong. The embarrassment factor could also cloud one’s reflection on the matter.
We all have our little wobbles, but I hope you will bounce back quickly. The gorgeous Brazilians in GIG should help! 😉
All the best, krispy84.
Yes, I think with hindsight I made the wrong decision to fly, and as I said, I originally called up GGL to cancel the flights and was persuaded by them that there wouldn't be issues and there were "lots of ways we can help, we've got a great scheme for hidden disabilities etc."
That having been said, I am now in a situation in GIG where I need to get home and am worrying about the flight, not flying is not an option and I guess what I'm really after is a way to fool proof (even if it is me that is fool) the plan.
I have already taken some points on-board, I arrived half-way through the boarding process last time as I didn't want to be caught out at the gate away from the toilets, whereas I think it would be best to go early and speak to the ground crew and have time to speak to the CSD on boarding. And I have also had a couple of other suggestions which I will take onboard send to me by DM (thanks to those who have experience of such challenges for taking the time out to contact me, it is very much appreciated).
I will of course endeavour to take on any further suggestions and way forward.
Sep 8, 2019, 10:29 am
#18
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK - Hampshire & London
Programs: Mucci de Guardian des Celliers des Grands Crus 1e Classé, plus BAEC.
Posts: 2,737
I would absolutely get to the gate early and try and speak to the CSD to explain your situation and also the incident on the outbound.
Could you upgrade to CW? You’d then get the ‘certainty’ that you could access the CW toilets. I know this isn't ideal, and you shouldn’t have to do this iot ensure swift toilet availability, but if it was me I would consider upgrading for peace of mind.
ps. What are loads like on the return flight? Could an early word with the CSD + your status lead to a discretionary upgrade to CW anyway?
Good luck Shippers, chin up 👍.
Could you upgrade to CW? You’d then get the ‘certainty’ that you could access the CW toilets. I know this isn't ideal, and you shouldn’t have to do this iot ensure swift toilet availability, but if it was me I would consider upgrading for peace of mind.
ps. What are loads like on the return flight? Could an early word with the CSD + your status lead to a discretionary upgrade to CW anyway?
Good luck Shippers, chin up 👍.
Sep 8, 2019, 10:30 am
#19
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I am very sorry this happened to you navylad. Had the same happened to me I'm sure I would have been just as upset too. It's easy to say this, but there is no shame here. Accidents happen to the young, the old and the ill. You were in the last category on this occasion. So to repeat the point, you should feel no shame here. It was totally avoidable on the BA side, but as far as your poor body is concerned it was unavoidable. And (eventuallly) you will get back to being OK about it. I'd like to think I'd just slide around the crew member (can't happen on an A350!) and explain after the event, but it's very difficult to detach from an angry verbal engagement.
As for the next steps, I'd not worry about compensation. In the round you have I'm sure enough TPs, Avios and GUFs to keep going with your enjoyment of travel You had previously privately shared with me the precise condition behind this, so all that I would ask for is that the cabin crew member - and ideally their line - spend 15 minutes with the Good Doctor Google, reading up on that condition, and you can be totally sure that crew member would never do it again.
And it's probably not a bad idea for the rest of us to be aware of these conditions exist, so spending 15 minutes on maquillage in the onboard facilities is somewhat anti social.
As for the next steps, I'd not worry about compensation. In the round you have I'm sure enough TPs, Avios and GUFs to keep going with your enjoyment of travel You had previously privately shared with me the precise condition behind this, so all that I would ask for is that the cabin crew member - and ideally their line - spend 15 minutes with the Good Doctor Google, reading up on that condition, and you can be totally sure that crew member would never do it again.
And it's probably not a bad idea for the rest of us to be aware of these conditions exist, so spending 15 minutes on maquillage in the onboard facilities is somewhat anti social.
Sep 8, 2019, 10:32 am
#20
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Posts: 971
Navylad, how awful for you. Your experience reminds me of a similar story that the BBC reported on today. A student was accused of taking drugs while using a disabled toilet at a Wetherspoons pub as she had an invisible disability.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49556333
I am really surprised the crew didn’t offer you a change of clothing like a set of First pyjamas and place any soiled items in a protected bag.
Get well soon.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49556333
I am really surprised the crew didn’t offer you a change of clothing like a set of First pyjamas and place any soiled items in a protected bag.
Get well soon.
Sep 8, 2019, 10:35 am
#21
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Sep 8, 2019, 10:41 am
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
I would absolutely get to the gate early and try and speak to the CSD to explain your situation and also the incident on the outbound.
Could you upgrade to CW? You’d then get the ‘certainty’ that you could access the CW toilets. I know this isn't ideal, and you shouldn’t have to do this iot ensure swift toilet availability, but if it was me I would consider upgrading for peace of mind.
ps. What are loads like on the return flight? Could an early word with the CSD + your status lead to a discretionary upgrade to CW anyway?
Good luck Shippers, chin up 👍.
Could you upgrade to CW? You’d then get the ‘certainty’ that you could access the CW toilets. I know this isn't ideal, and you shouldn’t have to do this iot ensure swift toilet availability, but if it was me I would consider upgrading for peace of mind.
ps. What are loads like on the return flight? Could an early word with the CSD + your status lead to a discretionary upgrade to CW anyway?
Good luck Shippers, chin up 👍.
Load is
J0 C0 D0 R0 I0 W4 E2 T2 Y3 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0 G0
essentisllt so no chance. As it was upgraded from WT to WT+ using an upgrade voucher in any case, I can’t uograde with money or Avios unless AUP was offered at the airport, which there is no chance. Obviously the space available upgrade offered btm CR is in the same situation, hence I asked if they could change my flight to leaving 2 days early where there is J9 on the flight., they said they can’t get access to change the flight date, I would have to request a flight change with sales and then asked for the space available upgrade to be applied from them.
I’m trying to get through the GGL to find out the cost of a change, but the mobile network here isn’t great and just getting really poor lines where it is impossible to have a conversation, I suspect it would be astronomical, the cost to buy a new ticket is $5960.
Sep 8, 2019, 10:43 am
#23
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Very sorry this happened. That said a couple thoughts for the future.
#1 make sure you have a change of clothes with you always with this condition. Having had similar issues I can tell you life doesn't always make a bathroom handy
#2 what was your plan in very rough turbulence or take off or landing. Flight is sadly unpredictable. You may also want to consider some type of special underwear (hate to say it but diaper) for future flights
#1 make sure you have a change of clothes with you always with this condition. Having had similar issues I can tell you life doesn't always make a bathroom handy
#2 what was your plan in very rough turbulence or take off or landing. Flight is sadly unpredictable. You may also want to consider some type of special underwear (hate to say it but diaper) for future flights
Sep 8, 2019, 10:46 am
#24
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Posts: 18,618
Sep 8, 2019, 10:47 am
#25
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 439
Pretty astounded and very sorry to read your experience. Hope it never happens again to you.
As this is a forum chocked full of mainly premium flyers, I'm sure I'll get berated for this but as a mainly Y flyer, I will 95% of the time, simply walk through the curtain to use the business class loos if the economy ones have a line. I get the point that those toilets are supposed to be for customers up there but it's a toilet and if you have to go, you have to go, so I really don't see an issue and to be honest anyone that's genuinely offended by a passenger doing that needs a reality check. I've been refused maybe once or twice in memory over about 20 years and that's fine because I understand why. Most often a quick explanation that the toilets at the back were rammed usually suffices.
Sounds like you were very unlucky with this particular crew member. I'm actually shocked this could happen when you explained the situation and the individual in question needs a serious talking to.
As this is a forum chocked full of mainly premium flyers, I'm sure I'll get berated for this but as a mainly Y flyer, I will 95% of the time, simply walk through the curtain to use the business class loos if the economy ones have a line. I get the point that those toilets are supposed to be for customers up there but it's a toilet and if you have to go, you have to go, so I really don't see an issue and to be honest anyone that's genuinely offended by a passenger doing that needs a reality check. I've been refused maybe once or twice in memory over about 20 years and that's fine because I understand why. Most often a quick explanation that the toilets at the back were rammed usually suffices.
Sounds like you were very unlucky with this particular crew member. I'm actually shocked this could happen when you explained the situation and the individual in question needs a serious talking to.
Sep 8, 2019, 10:51 am
#26
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I have great sympathy for navylad, as I suffered for 3 years or more with severe bladder urgency. Eventually, whilst being scanned for prostate cancer (which I had!) they also discovered I was the proud possessor of a 4cm bladder stone. 
Both issues were promptly and effectively resolved, but (taking Lehava’s point 2 above) I still have a large supply of unused incontinence pads. Without going into the realms of ‘too much information’, could that not be a temporary fix to get you home? Or are you already equipped?
Both issues were promptly and effectively resolved, but (taking Lehava’s point 2 above) I still have a large supply of unused incontinence pads. Without going into the realms of ‘too much information’, could that not be a temporary fix to get you home? Or are you already equipped?
Sep 8, 2019, 10:59 am
#27
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: BA Blue, EI Silver, Honours Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,209
Hi Navylad,
It does sound like you had a horrible journey, a recent diagnosis of a choric condition is bound to be difficult, but with time you will develop much better ways to manage the symptoms, either by habit or medication, or both. I think you did the right thing by travelling, there will always be a "first time" and it is probably worth thinking about strategies which would have made your journey more comfortable after this experience. As you say flares can be very unpredictable and stress can be a trigger, so having a workable strategy and feeling confident about the next trip is important.
About a decade ago my UK-Ireland flight was delayed overnight by a technical fault, as it was a day trip I didn't have a change of clothes, toothpaste or clean underwear. As it was 1am by the time reached the airport hotel, I did have many options for clean pants! Since then I have always packed clean underwear and a toothbrush for any trip. I've also developed a habit of brining "plane clothes" with me on long-haul flights, both day and night time. I like being able to change into something very comfortable just after the seatbelt sign goes off and back into something a bit fresher and smarter just prior to arrival.
For what it's worth, I don't think the class of travel makes a huge difference, there is no predicting how long people will spend in the toilet. On the 789, for instance, the F toilet is shared with crew and flight deck. Even in a. cabin of 8 quite a queue could build up.
It does sound like you had a horrible journey, a recent diagnosis of a choric condition is bound to be difficult, but with time you will develop much better ways to manage the symptoms, either by habit or medication, or both. I think you did the right thing by travelling, there will always be a "first time" and it is probably worth thinking about strategies which would have made your journey more comfortable after this experience. As you say flares can be very unpredictable and stress can be a trigger, so having a workable strategy and feeling confident about the next trip is important.
About a decade ago my UK-Ireland flight was delayed overnight by a technical fault, as it was a day trip I didn't have a change of clothes, toothpaste or clean underwear. As it was 1am by the time reached the airport hotel, I did have many options for clean pants! Since then I have always packed clean underwear and a toothbrush for any trip. I've also developed a habit of brining "plane clothes" with me on long-haul flights, both day and night time. I like being able to change into something very comfortable just after the seatbelt sign goes off and back into something a bit fresher and smarter just prior to arrival.
For what it's worth, I don't think the class of travel makes a huge difference, there is no predicting how long people will spend in the toilet. On the 789, for instance, the F toilet is shared with crew and flight deck. Even in a. cabin of 8 quite a queue could build up.
Sep 8, 2019, 11:04 am
#28
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thanks, WhatsApp doesn’t allow calls unless the other person is on WhatsApp too and I don’t pay for Skype, but I did manage to get a better line by retrying and using the phone on speaker, GGL said they have no availability to move me into the 13th because it was purchased with an upgrade voucher.
yes, I will ensure I have a change of clothes on the return and am trying to find somewhere to buy some pads in Brazil.
I already accept, as this condition is new to me, that I made an error by actually flying and no I didn’t have any specific plans in the event of turbulence other than risking injury and going to the toilet anyway (I’m pretty good in turbulence in any case having spent a fair proportion of my life on a moving platform).
I think that whilst people are right and accidents can happen, the actions of others, in this instance the CC, do compound the effects, particularly when one is newly diagnosed and coming to terms with the condition still.
I have great sympathy for navylad, as I suffered for 3 years or more with severe bladder urgency. Eventually, whilst being scanned for prostate cancer (which I had!) they also discovered I was the proud possessor of a 4cm bladder stone.
Both issues were promptly and effectively resolved, but (taking Lehava’s point 2 above) I still have a large supply of unused incontinence pads. Without going into the realms of ‘too much information’, could that not be a temporary fix to get you home? Or are you already equipped?
Both issues were promptly and effectively resolved, but (taking Lehava’s point 2 above) I still have a large supply of unused incontinence pads. Without going into the realms of ‘too much information’, could that not be a temporary fix to get you home? Or are you already equipped?
I already accept, as this condition is new to me, that I made an error by actually flying and no I didn’t have any specific plans in the event of turbulence other than risking injury and going to the toilet anyway (I’m pretty good in turbulence in any case having spent a fair proportion of my life on a moving platform).
I think that whilst people are right and accidents can happen, the actions of others, in this instance the CC, do compound the effects, particularly when one is newly diagnosed and coming to terms with the condition still.
Sep 8, 2019, 11:12 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Programs: Mucci Chevalier de Actes Bénéfiques pour les Autres, BAEC Gold.
Posts: 1,487
Most sorry to hear of your unfortunate situation navylad. It sounds very unpleasant.
I was injured and partially paralysed whilst in the forces. Whilst surgery has corrected some of the main ‘structural’ problems, I am left in a situation where I can go from being comfortable to literally bursting for a pee in an instant.
Having tried pads etc I found they were of little help in my situation. Having a ‘Just can’t wait card’ had mixed results, particularly abroad.
However between the spinal injuries unit and my GP I was referred to the clinic at my local hospital, where I have learnt to self-catheterise. When flying on long flights etc now, I have the bag attached to my lower leg. The bag is completely invisible under trousers.
Sure, it was mildly embarassing at first, however it now gives me the confidence to fly, knowing that I won’t have to rush to the loo at the most inconvenient moment or when there is a queue etc and I can go to the loo to safely empty the bag more or less at my leisure.
My fear was always needing to urgently go during severe turbulence when the seat belt signs are on, or on take-off or landing, which is now safely negated with the catheter/bag.
I take a few kits with me whenever I go away.
I appreciate you are not going to be able to get such things before your flight home, but this kind of set-up may help for your future flights?
BM
I was injured and partially paralysed whilst in the forces. Whilst surgery has corrected some of the main ‘structural’ problems, I am left in a situation where I can go from being comfortable to literally bursting for a pee in an instant.
Having tried pads etc I found they were of little help in my situation. Having a ‘Just can’t wait card’ had mixed results, particularly abroad.
However between the spinal injuries unit and my GP I was referred to the clinic at my local hospital, where I have learnt to self-catheterise. When flying on long flights etc now, I have the bag attached to my lower leg. The bag is completely invisible under trousers.
Sure, it was mildly embarassing at first, however it now gives me the confidence to fly, knowing that I won’t have to rush to the loo at the most inconvenient moment or when there is a queue etc and I can go to the loo to safely empty the bag more or less at my leisure.
My fear was always needing to urgently go during severe turbulence when the seat belt signs are on, or on take-off or landing, which is now safely negated with the catheter/bag.
I take a few kits with me whenever I go away.
I appreciate you are not going to be able to get such things before your flight home, but this kind of set-up may help for your future flights?
BM
Sep 8, 2019, 11:21 am
#30
Join Date: May 2012
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When in CW I very often see pax from further back coming forward to use the toilets. Only very rarely do I see CC send them back, so you were really unlucky there. Having said that, it is usually very obvious when somebody really must urgently use the bathroom and it is only common courtesy for others to allow that person through. Equally, CC should also notice this and make very quick accommodations. Now, your specific complaint is about the CC member who either didn't see, or didn't look for, the lanyard you were carrying. This is poor communications by BA as well as a clear sign that the individual concerned had neither the empathy or emotional intelligence to recognise something was amiss.
Now, a space available upgrade is IMO a significant gesture by BA. Obviously it does not help you retrospectively and you may not be able to make as good use of it as another passenger, but for BA it is indeed accepting that they failed you here. The only thing missing is the commitment to ensure that this improves and will not happen again. Unfortunately, BA is too big and unwieldy to be able to handle this. Crew are given 6 weeks training and then put on these flights. How on earth can that work. I do think that in coming to terms with your disability you will realise that there is no shame in it and you may be surprised to find that others also see no shame in it either.
Please do not stop traveling because of this condition, please do not let those less caring members of our society trouble you and please do enjoy your time in Brazil. It is an incredible and diverse country.
Now, a space available upgrade is IMO a significant gesture by BA. Obviously it does not help you retrospectively and you may not be able to make as good use of it as another passenger, but for BA it is indeed accepting that they failed you here. The only thing missing is the commitment to ensure that this improves and will not happen again. Unfortunately, BA is too big and unwieldy to be able to handle this. Crew are given 6 weeks training and then put on these flights. How on earth can that work. I do think that in coming to terms with your disability you will realise that there is no shame in it and you may be surprised to find that others also see no shame in it either.
Please do not stop traveling because of this condition, please do not let those less caring members of our society trouble you and please do enjoy your time in Brazil. It is an incredible and diverse country.