Afternoon tea....without any tea
May 17, 2019, 12:35 am
#271
Join Date: Oct 2006
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May 17, 2019, 12:42 am
#272
Join Date: May 2005
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I, personally, see nothing ambiguous in that menu. I accepted that someone who does not bother to read the menu and who makes a selection on the basis of the title of the section may be confused and surprised that they only get one item out of the three on offer. The menu is very clear to me.
No argument there, expect, of course, for the fact that the menu does not hide anything. Look at that menu - no item contains a warning that it is that item only. Why should a scone? Or tea? Or hot chocolate?
For a second I started to think that they started doing things differently in the UK and that they were handing out receipts to people to make their selection. But then I remembered that I was just in the UK two weeks ago and I still got a menu to make my choice. If establishments advertise things on receipts than I am not sure I have anything to add here...
Last edited by Andriyko; May 17, 2019 at 1:50 am
May 17, 2019, 1:51 am
#273
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I'm surprised that nobody seems to have mentioned caveat emptor.
https://consumer.findlaw.com/consume...tor-mean-.html
And it's not just 'property' as in houses or land, as that link notes.
https://consumer.findlaw.com/consume...tor-mean-.html
The term is actually part of a longer statement: Caveat emptor, quia ignorare non debuit quod jus alienum emit ("Let a purchaser beware, for he ought not to be ignorant of the nature of the property which he is buying from another party.")
May 17, 2019, 2:02 am
#275
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May 17, 2019, 2:10 am
#276
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I only found out from twitter! It’s a joke, but we need to remember British Airways is not British anymore, it is Irish/Spanish, so for them no tea with an afternoon tea is probably acceptable.
if people fly BA, they should expect this and not complain about it, and if they are not happy, just don’t fly them where they can.
i still fly BA when it’s convenient and cost effective, I just don’t expect anything except to get there safely and on time.
May 17, 2019, 2:13 am
#277
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May 17, 2019, 2:20 am
#278
Join Date: Sep 2013
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I wonder has any travel-related forum generated quite so much passionate discussion on the subject of afternoon tea 
I’ve even getting pop-up tea ads now when I open FT : one of them from a chain of garden centres (outlets throughout SE England, including the area around LHR) which offers a “Wimbledon Cream Tea : Served with an Eton Mess, plus a scone, jam,clotted cream and a refreshing pot of loose leaf tea. Only £7.95 Available daily, no booking required”
I’ve even getting pop-up tea ads now when I open FT : one of them from a chain of garden centres (outlets throughout SE England, including the area around LHR) which offers a “Wimbledon Cream Tea : Served with an Eton Mess, plus a scone, jam,clotted cream and a refreshing pot of loose leaf tea. Only £7.95 Available daily, no booking required”
May 17, 2019, 2:32 am
#279
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: BRS
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I can't be bothered to read the whole thread but in my mind afternoon tea should include sandwiches? If it was a cream then it would (still not) make sense.
Editing note: beaten to it.
Editing note: beaten to it.
Last edited by Schwann; May 17, 2019 at 2:39 am
May 17, 2019, 3:14 am
#280
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May 17, 2019, 3:25 am
#281
Join Date: Sep 2009
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As a comparison of definitions, this is the menu of Betty's Afternoon Tea menu - clearly a different interpretation to BA's.
And yes - you can add Champagne to the traditional offering - which will still include the tea.
https://www.bettys.co.uk/traditional-afternoon-tea
And yes - you can add Champagne to the traditional offering - which will still include the tea.
https://www.bettys.co.uk/traditional-afternoon-tea
May 17, 2019, 4:08 am
#282
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I, personally, see nothing ambiguous in that menu. I accepted that someone who does not bother to read the menu and who makes a selection on the basis of the title of the section may be confused and surprised that they only get one item out of the three on offer. The menu is very clear to me.
I would have thought that, for something to be genuinely clear and unambiguous, it would not be enough that it should be clear to me. It would require the matter to be clear for an overwhelming majority of people. I sincerely doubt that this is the case here.
Let us sum up the situation. Something that I think is now clearly established is that the name of the product sold by BA at £5 and consisting of "Sultana Scone (90g), Strawberry Preserve (28g), Clotted Cream (28g) " is "afternoon tea". This is how BA marketing understands it, this is how the BA twitter team understands it, this is how BA staff on board understand it. Everything that we have heard from BA suggests that this is the case and this is further confirmed by what is on the receipt, what is on BA website, etc...
So, the question boils down to: does the fact that I call my product something but also provide in smaller print a description of that product which is seemingly inconsistent with the name means that it is clear to everybody that what the product consist of is what is in the small print description rather than what the name suggests? Let us add that, to many, the £5 price point would probably also suggest that the tea is included as many would regard £5 as a surprisingly high price point for a mere scone.
Let us take another hypothetical example. Let us say that I offer a product called "Champagne Breakfast" for £28, but that a smaller print description of the product says: free range poached egg, hand-carved wiltshire ham, sourdough toast and that, elsewhere, I have a list of drinks for sale, which include a glass of champagne for £17.
Now, you may well consider that this is clear that the champagne is extra and that "Champagne Breakfast" does not include Champagne because the description of the product does not include Champagne. Others might consider that the very use of the name "Champagne Breakfast" is misleading, all the more so when the pricing seems consistent with Champagne being included.
May 17, 2019, 4:09 am
#283
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Let’s hope that certain BA passengers have found similar consolation in the entertaining tea debacle ! I’m thinking in particular of those affected by various unpleasant - and somewhat less amusing - issues, as discussed in a number of other Flyertalk threads* currently doing the rounds !
*(full sick bags left in seat pocket / no champers in F class / F toilets left un-repaired)
May 17, 2019, 4:13 am
#284
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May 17, 2019, 4:30 am
#285
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This reminds me of these legal cases where both sides agree that a legal provision is absolutely clear but then put forward interpretations which are diametrically opposed to each other.
I would have thought that, for something to be genuinely clear and unambiguous, it would not be enough that it should be clear to me. It would require the matter to be clear for an overwhelming majority of people. I sincerely doubt that this is the case here.
Let us sum up the situation. Something that I think is now clearly established is that the name of the product sold by BA at £5 and consisting of "Sultana Scone (90g), Strawberry Preserve (28g), Clotted Cream (28g) " is "afternoon tea". This is how BA marketing understands it, this is how the BA twitter team understands it, this is how BA staff on board understand it. Everything that we have heard from BA suggests that this is the case and this is further confirmed by what is on the receipt, what is on BA website, etc...
So, the question boils down to: does the fact that I call my product something but also provide in smaller print a description of that product which is seemingly inconsistent with the name means that it is clear to everybody that what the product consist of is what is in the small print description rather than what the name suggests? Let us add that, to many, the £5 price point would probably also suggest that the tea is included as many would regard £5 as a surprisingly high price point for a mere scone.
Let us take another hypothetical example. Let us say that I offer a product called "Champagne Breakfast" for £28, but that a smaller print description of the product says: free range poached egg, hand-carved wiltshire ham, sourdough toast and that, elsewhere, I have a list of drinks for sale, which include a glass of champagne for £17.
Now, you may well consider that this is clear that the champagne is extra and that "Champagne Breakfast" does not include Champagne because the description of the product does not include Champagne. Others might consider that the very use of the name "Champagne Breakfast" is misleading, all the more so when the pricing seems consistent with Champagne being included.
I would have thought that, for something to be genuinely clear and unambiguous, it would not be enough that it should be clear to me. It would require the matter to be clear for an overwhelming majority of people. I sincerely doubt that this is the case here.
Let us sum up the situation. Something that I think is now clearly established is that the name of the product sold by BA at £5 and consisting of "Sultana Scone (90g), Strawberry Preserve (28g), Clotted Cream (28g) " is "afternoon tea". This is how BA marketing understands it, this is how the BA twitter team understands it, this is how BA staff on board understand it. Everything that we have heard from BA suggests that this is the case and this is further confirmed by what is on the receipt, what is on BA website, etc...
So, the question boils down to: does the fact that I call my product something but also provide in smaller print a description of that product which is seemingly inconsistent with the name means that it is clear to everybody that what the product consist of is what is in the small print description rather than what the name suggests? Let us add that, to many, the £5 price point would probably also suggest that the tea is included as many would regard £5 as a surprisingly high price point for a mere scone.
Let us take another hypothetical example. Let us say that I offer a product called "Champagne Breakfast" for £28, but that a smaller print description of the product says: free range poached egg, hand-carved wiltshire ham, sourdough toast and that, elsewhere, I have a list of drinks for sale, which include a glass of champagne for £17.
Now, you may well consider that this is clear that the champagne is extra and that "Champagne Breakfast" does not include Champagne because the description of the product does not include Champagne. Others might consider that the very use of the name "Champagne Breakfast" is misleading, all the more so when the pricing seems consistent with Champagne being included.