Rant: why is T5 so badly connected?

Reply

Old Jan 7, 19, 9:09 am
  #106  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 1,298
Originally Posted by dajdavies View Post
As someone who often uses the RailAir bus from Reading I can't quite believe it's really happening or how long it's actually going to take but I look forward to the day that tunnel opens!

But still can't believe it's nine years away at best :-(

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/our-ra...row-rail-link/
Cant believe after the billions invested in Crossrail that heathrow is nor a transit stop on the east west line rather than a westbound terminus

What were the planners thinking?
allturnleft is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 19, 9:21 am
  #107  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, VS Gold, Accor Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,770
Originally Posted by adrianlondon View Post
I'll be spending a weekend in Brighton some time soon, and my dilemma is to fly BA to LHR (using airmiles and enjoy lounge access with my silver status) or Easyjet into LGW. Gatwick is looking to be the winner unfortunately.

It was around 10 years ago that I went to KL and I took the KLIA, although it only cost around £5 then. A quick google shows it to be £10 now with current exchange rates.
Simple geography states that Gatwick would be the choice to make ...
orbitmic and T8191 like this.
Sealink is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 19, 10:50 am
  #108  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Programs: BAEC Bronze
Posts: 305
Originally Posted by allturnleft View Post


Cant believe after the billions invested in Crossrail that heathrow is nor a transit stop on the east west line rather than a westbound terminus

What were the planners thinking?
Crossrail will use the existing tracks/line with some upgrades to the west of Paddington and from Stratford eastwards.
lcylocal is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 19, 10:57 am
  #109  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Programs: BAEC Bronze
Posts: 245
Originally Posted by ThrowingBoeing View Post
Just out of interest where exactly is 132 miles form Birmingham yet BHX is the nearest airport I'm struggling to work that one out ? ��
Aberystwyth. I guess CWL might be nearer as the crow flies, but it doesn't have the destinations I need and, when you're stuck with the train, there's no contest. There's a direct train to BHX from Aberystwyth, whereas CWL is at least three changes away (with one of those in England! (Thanks, Dr Beeching!))
ThrowingBoeing likes this.
frank_poulankh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 19, 11:10 am
  #110  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Executive Club (Silver), Le Club Accor (Silver)
Posts: 481
Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
I'm only basing it on media articles as I don't have access to that data, but if it is mistaken, then it is a mistake shared across multiple sources. See here for a reference (section starting: "la ligne 7 est la mieux desservie"): Cinq faits à connaître sur le métro parisien Rough translation: "with 60 trains an hour at peak time, line 7 is the best equipped. Line 13, often criticised by public transport users reaches 52 trains an hour. This, however, is a lot more than the 4 trains an hour of line 3b."

And here: Les petits secrets de la RATP révélés au public L'interconnexion n'est plus assurée mentioning 60tph for line 7 and 59tph for line 9.
Those frequencies can simply only be combined, both directions (so 26-30 trains per hour, which is still excellent). If you think about it, it's almost impossible to manage dwell times to such an extent that a train can roll into a station, stop, open doors, allow people on and off, close doors and roll out again with sufficient margin ahead of the next train which repeats the process exactly 60 seconds later. And then again 60 seconds later. However, the Victoria line is genuinely 36 trains per hour end to end for 90 minutes in each AM and PM peak, and this will increase to a full 180 minutes of each peak later this year. That's world class, and it's practically very hard to get above 40. But you only have to stand on the platform at Euston or Victoria any peak hour to see how hard it is to achieve even these 100 second headways, given the sheer volume of customers boarding and alighting.
orbitmic likes this.
kingstontoon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 19, 2:00 pm
  #111  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bombay
Programs: EC Blue, EB Silver, FB Gold
Posts: 265
I think the location of the T5 stations (HEX & tube) are about as convenient as they come. My gripe is price (HEX) and frequency (HEX & tube). I used to live in Bermondsey, and door to door travel time was around 1 hr door to door with a jubilee - bakerloo - HEX combo. Jubilee + Piccadilly changing at Green Park (which is three separate stations...) is around 90 mins, unless there is a signal failure (frequent) or other operational hiccups. Green Park is fine with HBO, but a nightmare with a big suitcase.

I dont know how many times HEX I’ve waited longer than the advertised 15 mins at the platform or ended up behind a stopping service. Obviously they’ve still charged full price... the upside of HEX being so expensive is that you’ll always find a seat. If I travelled with my partner, it was cheaper for us to get a minicab than public transport. It was also door to door, which is where Heathrow Central leaves a lot to be desired if using T2.

I do do find it odd that one of Europe’s busiest airports doesn’t offer trains more often - look at Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Zurich or Oslo for inspiration.

RoyalSwazi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 19, 2:23 pm
  #112  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA (GOLD), VS
Posts: 10,110
Originally Posted by RoyalSwazi View Post

I do do find it odd that one of Europe’s busiest airports doesn’t offer trains more often - look at Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Zurich or Oslo for inspiration.
Certainly with AMS the airport is now on the main railway line that lots of trains to various places have to go through anyway but rail services didn't arrive at AMS until 1978 (the year after the Piccadilly line reached LHR) and the direct service to Amsterdam Centraal only started in1986

With LGW the station was already on the Brighton Mainline so it was easy to stop trains there from London to many South Coast Destinations so again has a good service. The only specific service (the Gatwick Express) is only every 15 minutes which is the same as the HEX frequency.

Whereas LHR had no such existing services for it to be linked to
RoyalSwazi likes this.
UKtravelbear is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 19, 4:52 pm
  #113  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold; FB Silver; SPG; IHG Gold
Posts: 1,903
I think LHR is well connected but depending on where you live/ are staying, it can take a long time to get home, simply because London is a big and busy place! You basically have a choice of the cheap but ever stopping Piccadilly line that takes forever to get anywhere useful and the ludicrously overpriced Heathrow Express, which is very quick. Once cross rail is completed then Heathrow will have connectivity to rival Amsterdam, which I agree is very well connected. Overall I think T5 is reasonably well connected.
South London Bon Viveur is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8, 19, 12:16 am
  #114  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by aristoph View Post
We exited T5 at 535pm and the first tube left the station at just before 6pm. 10 minutes does not apply on sunday evening! I get why we ended up here, of course I do, but it is sadly ironic that BA ended up with the worst connectivity at its own hub.

But they simply don't... as others have pointed out, T4 is eminently worse in terms of connectivity, and T5 has exactly the same connectivity as T2&3, albeit five minutes further down the HEX/tube line. As for the T5B/C transits, give me that any day compared to the eternal walk to/from some of the outlying gates at T3!

In terms of T5 being 'an afterthought'... well yes, it was built on the last free bit of LHR real estate and I think makes a pretty good use of the space. Yes it's at the wrong end of the airfield if you're coming from London on public transport, but by the same token it's far easier to get to off the M4 or M25. And with LHR on Westerly operations 90% of the time, T5's location means you don't waste time taxiing back to the other end of the runway after landing!

And compared to international standards, T5 is a relative dream of connectivity as a hub. Thinking of my flying recently, it's taking me through MEL, HKG, IAD, JFK and NRT. Obviously HKG wins hands down in terms of convenience and connectivity but that has the luxury of being built from scratch within the last 20 years. The others serve 'global' cities but are a mishmash of poorly extended terminals. Only NRT has a dedicated 'express' train to the city, but it's still an hour of your journey even on wonderful Japanese railways...
jk156 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8, 19, 12:50 am
  #115  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GfL+CCR, Aclub Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 23,961
Originally Posted by jk156 View Post
But they simply don't... as others have pointed out, T4 is eminently worse in terms of connectivity, and T5 has exactly the same connectivity as T2&3
First point is correct, the one I bolded isn't though as T23 gets all LHR trains (123 before T5 - so shorter, but also 4+123. Going from town, you need to make a guess as to how long your train might be stuck at T4 before continuing to T23, but for landing, the situation of T23 is a lot more enviable in terms of frequencies - they basically get the best of both worlds plus the shortest travel times of all three LHR tube stations by about 3 minutes.

I do agree with others that in terms of station location, on the other hand, T5 is very well located (as is T4).
orbitmic is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8, 19, 1:14 am
  #116  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Bronze, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 328
First World problems.....

Seems like the OP wants a non stop connect direct from LHR to where ever they want to go regardless of where it is... not going to happen until we invent teleportation...... Until then everything else is a compromise for most people.
Sealink and kanderson1965 like this.
SonTech is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8, 19, 1:30 am
  #117  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
Programs: AA EP 1MM, BA Gold, UA Peon
Posts: 5,237
Originally Posted by jk156 View Post
. Only NRT has a dedicated 'express' train to the city, but it's still an hour of your journey even on wonderful Japanese railways...
The Narita Express is a fine example of "Express train means few stops - not fast". Average speed is about 80km/h, 50mph. Japan has many other examples too. "Rapid" trains rarely go fast either.
flatlander is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8, 19, 2:15 pm
  #118  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold; Hilton Honors Gold
Posts: 1,568
Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
The Narita Express is a fine example of "Express train means few stops - not fast". Average speed is about 80km/h, 50mph. Japan has many other examples too. "Rapid" trains rarely go fast either.
Yes, very much like "Fast" services in the South East. I remember standing at various stations and you would get the exhortation to stand clear of the platform edge, "Fast train approaching" and then something would potter through at about 10 mph. Fast in that context was a synonym for non-stop.

Personally I think LHR is reasonably well connected. At least public transportation is actually an option there, unlike somewhere like LAX. It takes me longer to get from LAX to downtown LA by taxi / Uber than it does to fly from Las Vegas to LAX. When I think of well-connected airports then places such as GVA, HKG, ZRH spring to mind. NCL is terrible if the Metro isn't running, and the last service from Airport to the city centre at 23:09 is a little too early.
Geordie405 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8, 19, 5:09 pm
  #119  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: AA MM Platinum pro; OW sapphire, EK gold
Posts: 365
A few comments for this already lengthy discourse. T4 is infinitely worse than T5 - on my only two connections from there onto Heathrow Express the link from T4 arrived as the 'connecting' train was leaving.

And yes, the tube is terrific.....unless you have to manage luggage up and down stairs in a majority of stations. Why not just have ramps for wheeled luggage? Hopefully this will be improved as Crossrail takes shape.

And, finally, for those who lament the connections at LHR - try living anywhere near JFK - no good public transport and constantly clogged roads. London is wonderful by comparison.
dwugson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 9, 19, 12:16 am
  #120  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Portland OR
Programs: United 1K 1MM, Marriott Rewards Gold, Hilton HHonors Silver
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by George Kyriakos View Post
As a resident of one of the outermost southern London boroughs (Sutton), I’ve long since had a gripe with T5's accessibility via public transport.
Have you tried this? Southern fasts (via Mitchem Jct) to Clapham Junction. Use the footbridge to get to platform 6, then 4tph SWR to Feltham (trains posted as Reading or Windsor). At Feltham cross the footbridge, exit the station and take the bus to LHR (285 to Central or 490 to T4-5). The 490 is currently on diversion away from Feltham station but returns soon.

I live in the US but the family homes are close to you. And going via Feltham is the fastest route from Coulsdon South.
usbusinesstraveller is online now  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread