wobbly wings

OK; thanks. On the issue of the different airport, I guess I could ask I ended up rerouting
my itinerary altogether. Yes, it came to a higher cost but I can live with that.

arnie.

Thanks. I'll give it all a go when I get back.

Aztec_Flyer

I've now heard back from BA and they've changed their original answer.

Their latest reply is:

Thanks for waiting while your claim for EU compensation has been investigated further.
Flight BA0827 suffered a departure delay of 72 minutes, and 68 minutes of this delay was a direct result of the aircraft being delayed on its previous sector, when it operated as BA0826. Security checks delayed BA0826 by 04 minutes which is outside of the airline's control.

However, the majority of the delay to BA0826 was a start up delay. This occurred because the arrival flow rate was significantly reduced to only 40 flights per hour at London Heathrow on 26 February due to strong winds. We usually operate with up to 60 flights per hour.
The flow rate at Dublin was also restricted due to Storm Ewan, and there were slot delays of up to 42 minutes. The majority of the delay was due to Air Traffic Control restrictions because of adverse weather conditions, and both BA0826 and BA0827 were delayed enroute as a result of restrictions because of Storm Ewan. This was reported in the media, please see the following link as an example.
http://www.irishsun.com/index.php/sid/252026119
Since the delay of the flight was caused by a rotational delay due to adverse weather conditions and Air Traffic Control restrictions, as set out in Recitals 14 and 15 of EC Regulation 261/2004, British Airways can prove the defence of “extraordinary circumstances” therefore no compensation is payable.

This is not what we were told at the time and the delay is coded to "operations" according to expertflyer.

Is there anywhere to verify their information or what would you suggest as the next steps?

corporate-wage-slave

I have to say that is one of the most specific replies I have ever seen from BA.

I don't see in your original post what you were told at the time. ZO is indeed operational delays, but the accuracy of the coding is not brilliant, it has to be said, it's just what the dispatcher shoves in after departure, and s/he may have a dozen other things to do quickly at the same time. However Storm Ewan certainly did happen, I remember it arriving after Doris, and though I don't know whether the flow rate was affected as described, it seems plausible to me. I guess, from what you are saying, there was no evidence of a storm when you were there. There are quite a few press reports available of Irish flight disruptions of various descriptions, notably the Ryanair flight that diverted to Shannon at around 12:30 hrs which got some media attention. The passengers where stacked for landing and the holding pattern wasn't much fun.
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish...-plane-9923414

What you need to work out is how BA's reply will look in court or CEDR, compared to whatever it was you were told, or whatever you can report as to the conditions while you were there. You can contact Dublin Airport and ask them to confirm whether flow rate was reduced on that date, they are usually fairly open to give this information. One fairly important piece of information is whether other aircraft on that route, say with Aer Lingus or the LCC from STN/LTN/LGW, were also delayed during this timeframe, a scan through flightradar24.com may help there.

tinkicker

When this occurred I posted it in it's own thread but it probably belongs here so as I have some feedback I've added it to this thread.

During the recent Mix-Fleet strike my flight LHR- Jeddah on 3 March (BA 133) was one of the only two cancelled that day. (the other apparently being Doha).

We were given 48 hours notice of the cancellation with a choice of flying on an alternate day or cancellation and refund. We asked to be re-routed but were told no. Due to biz restrictions we had to travel on the day we'd booked so cancelled and re-booked ourselves on QR at considerable extra expense (last minute booking) and a much longer journey.

Subsequent requests to BA for any form of compensation have been denied and there was a fairly pointless phone-call with customer services who, to their credit did phone up to say sorry they screwed our travel up, but then said they weren't going to do anything about it. As the call cost me over £1 a minute to receive (before the dubious local phone network cut them off) I rather wish they hadn't bothered.

It's all very odd as Jeddah is not a mix-fleet route, all the BA publicity was that the strike was having no effect and the cabin crew on our return flight (BA operated ironically) said they'd been told there had been no flights cancelled due to the strikes, no significant effect on pax and BA's management were very pleased about this and saying it showed how pointless the strike was.

That said a bit of back research suggests the 133 has been cancelled 5 or 6 times in the last 6 months which would be annoying if you flew it regularly but doesn't show a pattern of routinely scrubbing it due poor loads.

I guess a question is does anyone know of a decent business travel insurance policy which covers for the airline "strike" cancelling your flight and then pays for replacement flights.

corporate-wage-slave

In this situation you are entitled to a refund AND EC261 compensation of 600€, these being Article 8 and Article 7 provisions respectively, and both apply if the flight is cancelled. Article 7 would not apply if the flight was hit by a strike, but as you mentioned, this isn't applicable on this route, though presumably BA could argue that out if they really wanted to. BA tends to deny these cases in the first instance on the basis that you changed the booking, and in the case of delays - not cancellations - they may have a point (but I still have my doubts). But for cancellations there is no question that refund and compensation is payable in certain circumstances and on the face of it, your case is one of them.

As to sorting yourself out and rebooking, there is probably a case for someone to take that further up the relevant legal channels. Airlines have been careful to avoid high profile cases in this area, the Regulation doesn't actually say that re-routing has to be on the same airline, or even at the airline's choice of doing things. If they refused to do something, it is open to legal test as to whether what you did was proportionate and within the Regulation's spirit and wording. If tested at a senior appellate level I've a strong feeling the customer's protection argument would win. I guess, however, this is going further than you would wish to go, it would need very careful handling.

It's been mentioned on this forum a few times, but it's important to realise the difference between calling BA (and you better get an App on your smartphone to avoid £1 a minute calls incidentally) and going to the airport at the designated time. I had some colleagues on what I presume to be your flight, and the BA agents there rerouted them via Doha without issue. Contact Centres are not able to rebook on other airlines except if it is IB, VY, IE, Joint Business and a few obscure other services. Airport staff have greater abilities to MCO and rebook. If you call the Contact Centre then the risk is that you will get rebooked and then the airport staff hands are tied.

Often1

This strikes me as either a very thorough piece of research by BA or a fabrication. At a minimum, it is a recognition by BA that simply citing "knock on" delays will not establish an exemption to the Regulation and thus BA must make a case for each delay.

If the research is accurate, it seems to account for almost all of the delay in what one might call "exempt time". If the research is a fabrication, it is of the sort which might actually cause serious issues with any NEB as opposed to routine indifference.

Local coding for delays is simply informational and is neither complete nor intended to be. Local dispatchers have a database field with a few selections and characters and must select something which provides downline information for those waiting at the next field. It is not a complete accounting in the least. There are many who argue that it would best left out altogether as it ought not to be elied upon by any person.

Perhaps the easiest way to look at the assertions here would be to look at other flights in the time frame. While that is far from dispositive, if there are similar delays due to "flow control" you have an answer which may not account for every minute, but gives you an idea of what was happening.

bluemoon68

Quick question: If you are notified only when you attempt to check in (luckily at T-24) that your flight has been cancelled and you agree to be transferred to a flight 2.5 hours earlier (and therefore will also arrive 2.5 hours earlier) are you entitled to compensation?
Explanation for cancellation is air traffic restrictions.

corporate-wage-slave

If it's ATC restrictions, then no, there is no compensation. If extraordinary circumstances didn't apply, it would be half the full rate.

vbroucek

I am going to risk being called names, but really? Are you serious that you want to be compensated for arriving somewhere 2.5 hours earlier than scheduled when your original flight was cancelled and you could easily arrive one day later too? How were you inconvenienced by this? Did you have to get up 2.5 hours earlier? Did you lost income because of that? Did you incur extra expenses because of it? Sorry, I doubt it...

I really don't get this mentality of trying to milk anything and everything from EC261.

bluemoon68

If you are taking a very short trip, that 2.5 hours means that you lose the last morning of a trip that was already short enough.

Often1

While I agree that EC 261/2004 is foolish and has created a mentality to the detriment of commercial air travel and commercial air travelers, the fact is that this is what the Regulation provides. This thread is not a debate about the policy, simply the implementation.

In the stated circumstances, the passenger will not have a claim, but consider that some of us might be just as inconvenienced by having to leave earlier as later. Sometimes having to leave a meeting early, skip an appointment or make other arrangements is not to the traveler's advantage.

Heathrow Tower

it's a bit worrying that someone at BA doesn't understand their main hub.

Our average landing rate in good weather is 40-43 per hour. 60 an hour might be doable, but only with a third runway!

Do they explain why start up delay for an outbound from LHR would be caused by an arrival restriction into LHR? Unless they mean that the aircraft arrived into LHR late due to the arrival restriction and wasn't ready to depart on time. In which case it's not start up delay; that's when the flight is ready to go but ATC delay it.

arnie.

Worked perfectly - thanks.

FWIW, and I'm guilty of being frustrated and complaining about BA recently too (particularly their CS on Twitter, who seem overly patronising), their customer service on the phone was absolutely brilliant. Went through to the Exec Club line for the TP/Avios issue, was transferred across to CS who were very helpful. Also sorted issue with never having received my Exec Club pack (found already this year that some airports in the U.S. haven't granted lounge access w/o physical card).

Pgoodall

Just checked on our flight back from UVF today and the scheduled departure time has moved from 20.10 to 23.39 due to late departing aircraft. While this is a bit of a pain it could be worse as we have a 6pm check out and are coming back in First.
More importantly I assume that we will be eligible for compensation under the EC regs. At the moment we are showing a scheduled arrival time into LGW 3 1/2 hours late so I make that €300 each. Is this correct?

Thanks