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BA 'Mixed Fleet' cabin crew dispute [agreement reached]

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Old Dec 13, 2016, 11:12 pm
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Last edit by: NWIFlyer
Routes to/from LGW*/LCY/STN are NOT affected. Only flights to/from LHR* are potentially affected. If you think you may be affected, post 2714 (click here) may be helpful.

*The LGW-JFK flight has seen a lot of cancellations for the current strike period.

Current strike period:
  • None

Next announced strike period:

    Previous strike periods:
    • 25th December 2016 from 00:01 for 48 hours. (Strike action was suspended following ACAS discussions and revised offer.)
    • 10th & 11th January 2017
    • 19th January 2017 for 72 hours until 21st January
    • 5th-7th & 9th-11th February 2017
    • 17th-20th February 2017
    • 22nd-25th February 2017
    • 3rd-9th March 2017
    • 16th-19th June 2017 (suspended pending further ACAS talks)
    • 1st-16th July 2017
    • 19th July-1st August 2017
    • 2nd-15th August 2017
    • 16th-30th August 2017

    Routes affected:
    As a possible indication, for the fifth strike period BA announced the following cancellations:
    http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27910044-post2131.html as well as flights to and from Doha on all affected days (17 - 20 February).

    Mixed fleet routes are listed here, though note that other (non Mixed Fleet) flights from Heathrow are also being cancelled.

    Note for context in terms of how many routes might actually be affected: there are about 4000 members of MF (of which ~2,700 are Unite members and therefore eligible to take industrial action) and 15,000 total cabin crew

    Background Details from BA:
    Strike 19th July-1st August
    2nd August-16th August

    Background Details from Unite:
    http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...ty-pay-levels/
    http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...refuses-talks/

    Latest negotiating position:
    Talks at ACAS in June appear to have failed, with a further two week strike commencing 1st July announced on 16th June.

    Key upcoming dates:
    • Latest negotiated position (@ 23rd Oct 2017) between BA & Unite to be balloted. Rumoured that the union is recommending acceptance.

    Ballot results for industrial action:
    • First ballot, November 2016: Yes 79.5%, No 20.5%
    • Second ballot, December 2016: Yes 70%, No 30%
    • Third ballot, March 2017: Yes 56%, No 44%, turnout 72%
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    BA 'Mixed Fleet' cabin crew dispute [agreement reached]

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    Old Jun 19, 2017, 2:40 am
      #2626  
     
    Join Date: Nov 2010
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    I bet the tier point runners will be jealous,routing LHR-CAI-LHR-DOH is quite a long way round.

    My personal opinion you have next to no chance of being able to fly CAI-DOH.
    rapidex is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 2:42 am
      #2627  
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    Originally Posted by florens
    I appreciate that BA will only communicate their contingency plans a couple of days prior the first day of the strike but I am still a bit worried. They don't mention anything at all on their website (yet). I am not sure whether I should arrange a plan B already or not. I'm currently on BA1394 LHR-MAN on July 1st.
    BA have had information on their website since 16 June - it says (my bold for emphasis):

    "All British Airways customers will be able to fly to their destinations, despite 16 further days of threatened industrial action by Mixed Fleet Unite ...".

    The full text is available here: https://www.britishairways.com/trave...b?p_faqid=5783

    I am due to fly several times during the proposed strike period and I am not concerned at all about being able to get to or from my destinations. I might have to take an earlier or later flight (of my choice) or the flights will operate to schedule.
    Tobias-UK is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 3:49 am
      #2628  
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    Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
    BA have had information on their website since 16 June - it says (my bold for emphasis):

    "All British Airways customers will be able to fly to their destinations, despite 16 further days of threatened industrial action by Mixed Fleet Unite ...".

    The full text is available here: https://www.britishairways.com/trave...b?p_faqid=5783

    I am due to fly several times during the proposed strike period and I am not concerned at all about being able to get to or from my destinations. I might have to take an earlier or later flight (of my choice) or the flights will operate to schedule.
    Thanks for that. I expected it to be on the main page though. They don't say when the passengers will be at the destination though (e.g. later than originally scheduled).
    florens is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 3:57 am
      #2629  
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    Originally Posted by florens
    Thanks for that. I expected it to be on the main page though. They don't say when the passengers will be at the destination though (e.g. later than originally scheduled).
    Based on the previous strikes, the cancellations tended to be on higher frequency routes (like MAN) where passengers could be easily re-booked for same day travel but on an earlier or later service. I don't happen to have any MAN flights booked during the strike period, but if I did and I was unlucky enough to be on a flight that did get cancelled I would expect the extent of my disruption to be limited to a few hours either side of the original flight.
    KARFA is online now  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 4:09 am
      #2630  
     
    Join Date: Aug 2012
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    Originally Posted by KARFA
    Based on the previous strikes, the cancellations tended to be on higher frequency routes (like MAN) where passengers could be easily re-booked for same day travel but on an earlier or later service. I don't happen to have any MAN flights booked during the strike period, but if I did and I was unlucky enough to be on a flight that did get cancelled I would expect the extent of my disruption to be limited to a few hours either side of the original flight.
    Indeed, and this is the point I made in my earlier post - if you have to be on that flight (or something very similar) - book a plan B.

    If you can afford a few hours (earlier or later) - then you'll be fine.

    In my case - if the first flight of the day gets cancelled (and BA aren't understanding) I'm stuffed. If the second flight of the day gets cancelled but the first doesn't, I'm fine.

    So I'm not taking the risk.
    MPH1980 is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 7:56 am
      #2631  
     
    Join Date: Jun 2017
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    I'm flying the LHR-HEL route on the 5th July and HEL-LHR on the 10th July. My outbound flight is BA0794 departing at 11:25 and my inbound flight is BA0795 departing at 7:45 (first flight of the HEL-LHR schedule!) I understand that these flights are operated on by the MF crew so is it likely that both my flights will be disrupted? I have already spent £££ in transport costs and numerous other things so won't be best pleased if cancelled!
    ddani01 is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:03 am
      #2632  
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    You'll be happen to know that, on the outbound, there's a Finnair flight an hour before and on the return there is one at the same time (± 5 minutes).
    Both are on the A350.
    BA6501 is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:03 am
      #2633  
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    Originally Posted by ddani01
    I'm flying the LHR-HEL route on the 5th July and HEL-LHR on the 10th July. My outbound flight is BA0794 departing at 11:25 and my inbound flight is BA0795 departing at 7:45 (first flight of the HEL-LHR schedule!) I understand that these flights are operated on by the MF crew so is it likely that both my flights will be disrupted? I have already spent £££ in transport costs and numerous other things so won't be best pleased if cancelled!
    Welcome to FT.

    I think first thing to bear in mind is that this strike involves a small proportion of the MF crew, and with previous strikes there were no more than a handful of cancellations on each day. Also I don't remember HEL having any cancellations previously, these seemed more targeted at ABZ, MAN, DUS, and one or two other routes. This strike is a little different since it is over a longer period though so perhaps there may be a different approach by BA for this one.

    Also in the unlikely event there is some disruption to your particular flight there is another BA flight to HEL every day, and more importantly I think there are 3/4 AY flights every day which you could be rebooked on - you could even find yourself rebooked on the AY A350 which they run every day between HEL and LHR. I therefore think that if I were you I wouldn't be particularly concerned.
    KARFA is online now  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:20 am
      #2634  
     
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    Originally Posted by KARFA
    Welcome to FT.

    I think first thing to bear in mind is that this strike involves a small proportion of the MF crew, and with previous strikes there were no more than a handful of cancellations on each day. Also I don't remember HEL having any cancellations previously, these seemed more targeted at ABZ, MAN, DUS, and one or two other routes. This strike is a little different since it is over a longer period though so perhaps there may be a different approach by BA for this one.
    The post in the wiki re: cancellations from prior strike dates said he/she only checked short and mid-haul flights when cancellations to ABZ, MAN, DUS etc were identified. For sure were there no longhaul cancellations? Feeling slightly uneasy about a MF longhaul award booked during the next strike period.
    KosherKimchee is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:25 am
      #2635  
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    Originally Posted by KosherKimchee
    The post in the wiki re: cancellations from prior strike dates said he/she only checked short and mid-haul flights when cancellations to ABZ, MAN, DUS etc were identified. For sure were there no longhaul cancellations? Feeling slightly uneasy about a MF longhaul award booked during the next strike period.
    There were some long haul cancellations. Not many though. I think AUH was one that was cancelled on a few occasions. I didn't check long haul routes though, and it was the short haul/domestic routes that bore most of the cancellations.
    KARFA is online now  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:28 am
      #2636  
     
    Join Date: Jul 2009
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    Not sure if this at all related - need to take a day trip up to Leeds at some point in July and the late BA1345 return on Wednesdays through Saturdays seems to have completely disappeared during the strike period. Anyone know what's up there?
    Beaulieu is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:31 am
      #2637  
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    Originally Posted by Beaulieu
    Not sure if this at all related - need to take a day trip up to Leeds at some point in July and the late BA1345 return on Wednesdays through Saturdays seems to have completely disappeared during the strike period. Anyone know what's up there?
    The late rotation is missing on a few days in July. This has already been in the schedule for a while and predates the strikes.

    We only have two rotations on Saturday for LBA - BA1344/1345 doesn't run on a Saturday. All other days of the week would normally have three rotations.
    KARFA is online now  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:54 am
      #2638  
     
    Join Date: Sep 2010
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    Originally Posted by Can I help you
    Rather selfish Jordan D.
    I've been commuting weekly on BA for the last 15 months (bar the occasional week or one-way here and there). With forward looking bookings on the CPH route, I think I'm well within my rights to be glad that the chance of disruption is lower ...
    Jordan D is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:56 am
      #2639  
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
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    Does anyone know how much notice the union have to give of further strike dates? Is it possible they could announce mid way through the strike that they are going to stay out and not return on the 17th?

    My own own thinking is they will likely return for a week and then have another strike.

    Watching with interest as although I do sympathise with MF, my annual holiday EDI/LHR/ATH is on 28th July and have worked hard to treat the family to club Europe. Were it one of my business trips would not mind and would just reschedule but really want my summer holiday.
    KLMkitty is offline  
    Old Jun 19, 2017, 8:58 am
      #2640  
     
    Join Date: Feb 2001
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    Originally Posted by Jumbodriver
    And totally illegal under U.K. law.

    Unite would be open to unlimited damages and the individuals would get fired.

    And to be frank it wouldn't even be that effective. BA would rebook a relatively small number of disrupted passengers and the aircraft would fly as scheduled to be ready for its next trip at LHR albeit empty.

    Only 30% of mixed fleet have actually taken strike action anyway so Unite could never be sure they would force a cancellation as BA crews above minimum complement on long haul.
    UK labour law specifically forbids the withdrawal of services outside of the UK? Interesting (if true). Are you a labour lawyer or do you have any information to back that up? Genuinely curious here.

    I skimmed through the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 and don't see anything forbidding this anywhere. Elsewhere, I do see UK legal precedent that strong connection to the UK provides for coverage under UK labour law, even when physically outside of the UK.

    I think it has the potential to be significantly more effective than action to-date. Cancelling even a dozen wide-body flights abroad, with little notice as to which flights would be disrupted during the legal strike period, would likely generate increased disruption, cost to the company and media attention.

    What they are doing isn't working - they need to get creative.
    makin'miles is offline  


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