[Report Published] BA2276 LAS-LGW B772 G-VIIO aircraft fire Las Vegas airport
Jun 21, 2018, 8:13 am
#1336
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3R was opened and was going to be used, but the slide was not at a usable attitude so that exit was blocked. Similarly 4R was opened and was going to be used, but the slide was not at a usable attitude so that exit was also blocked. Therefore two exits which the CC thought could be used and where the doors were opened in the end were not used due to the slide not being deemed usable by the CC.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:20 am
#1337
Join Date: Mar 2017
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One thing I noted in the report was the door usage during evacuation and specifically slides not being usable thereby stopping use of that door.
The 777 has four doors either side, 1L, 1R, 2L, and 2R forward of the wing, and 3L, 3R, 4L, and 4R behind the wing.
Doors 1L, 2L, 2R, and 3L were deemed not usable by the CC due to external hazards leaving four doors 1R, 3R, 4L, and 4R which could be used. Of those four, the slide didn't correctly deploy on two of them 3R and 4R leaving only 1R and 4L which were used to evacuate. I am sure in previous reports there have been issues with slide deployment on the 777 - is there an issue with the slides on that aircraft or is there normally a high failure rate for slides? It seems half of the usable doors couldn't be used due to slides not deploying properly which surely has to be concerning. The wind speed noted at the back of the report of 6 kts doesn't seem particularly high to cause problems?
The 777 has four doors either side, 1L, 1R, 2L, and 2R forward of the wing, and 3L, 3R, 4L, and 4R behind the wing.
Doors 1L, 2L, 2R, and 3L were deemed not usable by the CC due to external hazards leaving four doors 1R, 3R, 4L, and 4R which could be used. Of those four, the slide didn't correctly deploy on two of them 3R and 4R leaving only 1R and 4L which were used to evacuate. I am sure in previous reports there have been issues with slide deployment on the 777 - is there an issue with the slides on that aircraft or is there normally a high failure rate for slides? It seems half of the usable doors couldn't be used due to slides not deploying properly which surely has to be concerning. The wind speed noted at the back of the report of 6 kts doesn't seem particularly high to cause problems?
Evacuation standards are not quite real life but start with an assumption that the maximum passenger load can be evacuated from half the doors in 90 seconds. The 777-200 has 8 exits and is certificated for 440 passengers, so in test configuration Boeing demonstrated 440 people evacuating from 4 exits in 90 seconds. So evacuating 150 ish through two exits in 2mins 25 seconds (timed from the first door opening) is an interesting datapoint. Most of the research I've seen says a pooled fuel fire will start to breach the fuselage in about 3 minutes. In this one we see the Club cabin wall compromised with a (relatively) small fire lasting a bit over 4 minutes.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:26 am
#1338
Join Date: Mar 2017
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The method for the investigator at it's simplest is: find the broken bit, clean it up, put it under a microscope and get counting. If you know how many stress cycles it has been under then you can make an approximation to how long ago it started.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:30 am
#1339
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Perhaps they are linked tho? Would engine 2 still running at idle be blowing air back over where those two slides at a sufficient speed to have caused them not to deploy at the right attitude?
As you say though, a very swift evacuation was done by the cabin crew so all credit to them, and fortunately it wasn't fully loaded (I think there could have been up to 330 odd passengers if so).
Last edited by KARFA; Jun 21, 2018 at 8:41 am
Jun 21, 2018, 8:36 am
#1340
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In my view, he encountered an emergency, he stopped the plane and everyone walked away from a potential disaster. By all means the airline can learn from the report but it doesn't detract from my view that he and the crew remain heroes and I'd happily board a flight with any one of them.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:46 am
#1341
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As noted above though the two doors which were opened and not used (3R and 4R) were blocked by the CC because they deemed the slide to be at an unusable attitude rather than the CC not using them as they noticed engine 2 was still running.
Perhaps they are linked tho? Would engine 2 still running at idle be blowing air back over where those two slides deployed at a sufficient speed to have caused them not to deploy at the right attitude?
Perhaps they are linked tho? Would engine 2 still running at idle be blowing air back over where those two slides deployed at a sufficient speed to have caused them not to deploy at the right attitude?
Source: Boeing airport planning doc
Jun 21, 2018, 8:48 am
#1342
Join Date: Oct 2014
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To put the simplest term on this... every time it flexed a bit it left a mark. Often called "beach marks" they look like contour lines around the stress concentration...I think a better analogy may be the stretch marks on skin often associated with pregnancy, it's a material thats been stressed and microscopically stretched each time giving a little more.
The method for the investigator at it's simplest is: find the broken bit, clean it up, put it under a microscope and get counting. If you know how many stress cycles it has been under then you can make an approximation to how long ago it started.
The method for the investigator at it's simplest is: find the broken bit, clean it up, put it under a microscope and get counting. If you know how many stress cycles it has been under then you can make an approximation to how long ago it started.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:53 am
#1343
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
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The captain ordered passengers to evacuate from the right side of the airplane. But the NTSB found that the unaffected right engine continued to run for 43 seconds after the captain’s order, resulting in jet blast blowing two emergency slides out of position and rendering them unusable for the evacuation. The passengers and crew were able to use two of the eight doors to leave the airplane before smoke and fire encroached the fuselage.
Of those four, the slide didn't correctly deploy on two of them 3R and 4R leaving only 1R and 4L which were used to evacuate. I am sure in previous reports there have been issues with slide deployment on the 777 - is there an issue with the slides on that aircraft or is there normally a high failure rate for slides? It seems half of the usable doors couldn't be used due to slides not deploying properly which surely has to be concerning. The wind speed noted at the back of the report of 6 kts doesn't seem particularly high to cause problems?
3R was opened and was going to be used, but the slide was not at a usable attitude so that exit was blocked. Similarly 4R was opened and was going to be used, but the slide was not at a usable attitude so that exit was also blocked. Therefore two exits which the CC thought could be used and where the doors were opened in the end were not used due to the slide not being deemed usable by the CC.
Jun 21, 2018, 9:04 am
#1344
Join Date: Apr 2015
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I've always thought that the wording a lot of airlines use in their safety videos to the effect of 'please confirm the exit/two exits nearest to you' is extremely ill-advised and should really be something like 'please study the locations of the emergency exits throughout the cabin closely' - sadly, this incident basically confirms that for me.
Jun 21, 2018, 9:11 am
#1345
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
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I've always thought that the wording a lot of airlines use in their safety videos to the effect of 'please confirm the exit/two exits nearest to you' is extremely ill-advised and should really be something like 'please study the locations of the emergency exits throughout the cabin closely' - sadly, this incident basically confirms that for me.
Jun 21, 2018, 9:21 am
#1346
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Great that everyone got out, but can't shake feeling that everyone was lucky that a more devastating outcome didn't arise, for example if (more) fuel had spilled while still rolling and preventing use of 4L due to adjacent fire.
EDIT: To avoid any misunderstanding I should add that KARFA "liked" this before I added post-quote text to round out my views.
Last edited by EsherFlyer; Jun 21, 2018 at 10:30 am
Jun 21, 2018, 11:05 am
#1349
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In different circumstances, most notably a full flight, the outcome may not have been so favourable - it is important that the NTSB go to town on investigating these near misses. Only having seconds to act means doing what is most likely to be successful right first time ie all of the correct checklists - as I understand it a couple of seconds referring to the cover of the QRH here could have bought those hypothetical extra passengers (accident flight was only 55% full) the time they might have needed to escape.
Jun 21, 2018, 11:46 am
#1350
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2R was not used due to the fire and smoke rather than the CC noting engine 2 being on. That door was not opened.
3R was opened and was going to be used, but the slide was not at a usable attitude so that exit was blocked. Similarly 4R was opened and was going to be used, but the slide was not at a usable attitude so that exit was also blocked. Therefore two exits which the CC thought could be used and where the doors were opened in the end were not used due to the slide not being deemed usable by the CC.
3R was opened and was going to be used, but the slide was not at a usable attitude so that exit was blocked. Similarly 4R was opened and was going to be used, but the slide was not at a usable attitude so that exit was also blocked. Therefore two exits which the CC thought could be used and where the doors were opened in the end were not used due to the slide not being deemed usable by the CC.