Aug 7, 2015, 5:53 am
Last edit by: NWIFlyer
Hand Baggage Only fares (HBO) are available on domestic and EuroTraveller routes. They are offered at a lower price to those able to travel without checked baggage on point to point journeys only - they are not offered with connections, stopovers or with Club Europe. There isn't a special fare bucket for HBO, it's just a discount to all domestic/ET fare buckets, so even expensive flexible tickets offer HBO. The discount varies depending on route. For example, going HBO on LHR-DUB gives a £10 discount; £15 on LHR-PRG; and £20 on LHR-ATH. Online Travel Agents often book into these fares (including building stopovers) and are sometimes less than transparent about the baggage restrictions during the booking process. HBO fares do not earn OnBusiness credits.
BAEC status passengers from Bronze upwards get advance seat choice with these tickets.
How to get seat allocation if HBO and without status:
- Pay up. You can pay up at OLCI if you don't like the seat. Costs vary from £7 to £21 per sector as a minimum, with differential pricing employed for better seats (e.g. an exit row on LHR-DUB was £23 in June 2017). Usually, but not always, this invalidates the cost saving of HBO. You can also pay up in Manage My Booking (MMB) before OLCI.
- Cancel OLCI at the "confirm contact details" stage. Go in again and/or later and you may be offered another seat.
- Corporate travel bookings still offer seating to HBO in some cases. Sometimes this ability is temporary and doesn't stick.
- Ask check-in or the lounge agent for a better seat, so far this seems to be possible. Lounge agents won't be able to assist where they aren't part of the ground handling for BA (e.g. LBA).
- If your airport has a Self Service Check In (SSCI) machine AND you do not print your boarding pass (see below) then you can select another seat there provided check-in is still open, typically up to 46 minutes before take off. So if you are being allocated a rotten seat and you can see better seats available, you can take a risk and complete/commence check-in later.
SSCI machines are available at: LHR, LGW, LCY, MAN, EDI (on the general purpose airport machines, but only those by the BA check-in area), NCE, BRU, OSL, BLL, AAR, MUC, AMS.
They are NOT available at: ABZ, BHD, GLA, LBA, NCL, DUB, CDG, ORY, SVG, DUS, TXL, MAH, CFU, OLB, CTA, CAG, FDH, ANE, UIP, BIO, HER, SVQ, PMI, BRI.
You can also do this operation the night before at LGW and LHR, details here.
By "printing boarding pass" we mean not selecting that option at OLCI, or saving, emailing, faxing and/or downloading the boarding pass on the App.
HBO fares - Have to pay to select seat in advance [free for GCH/SCH/BCHs @ 14 Jun 17]
Mar 3, 2015, 1:43 am
#451
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,753
As I understand it, the discount on the fare for not checking in a bag is roughly equivalent to the saving BA makes on not having to handle your bag - what's financially unviable about that? And what difference would it make to financial viability if 1% or 90% of passengers bought HBO? A £20 discount on full Y doesn't strike me as financially unviable.
If those passengers have not changed their travelling behaviour, but have now switched to HBO then, at least for that discrete group, BA's revenue and yield will have dropped.
Almost irrespective of whether those passengers are travelling discount Y or full Y, that could be an issue for the airline, especially when it is apparently trying to analyse shorthaul profitability with reference to point-to-point operations only. As HBO only applies to shorthaul fares, the full impact of the revenue decline is felt wholly on the shorthaul 'accounts'.
Although some fares may end up technically being sold at less than cost, lets not forget that revenue management has an overbooking (techincally a double-selling) algorithm, such that the income per seat is actually greater than the fare paid for the seat occupied.
The bigger concern could be that, say, 40 passengers on each LHR-NCL have never checked a bag and are now benefitting from a, say, £10 fare reduction. That could be a £4800 revenue hit per five day week; almost £250,000 per annum. As the airline's fixed and variable costs associated witht he operation of the flight have remained the same (or indeed increased, if overall HBO uptake has slowed turnrounds), that's a potential problem.
All speculation, doesn't definitively prove anything, that but unless the HBO fare strategy has increased conquests from other airlines (or modes of travel) to a sufficient level thanks to the higher search engine results, then there may indeed be pressure to reassess the strategy at a level beyond whether a full Y fare is viable or unviable at a £x variance.
Mar 3, 2015, 1:44 am
#452
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London N8
Programs: BA (LTG), Miles&More (whatever the lowest level is), Oyster card (zones 1-2)
Posts: 891
I wonder how BA will 'allocate' these seats. Will it be entirely random, will it default to middle seats, will it follow some algorithm that tells it what seats are 'less popular' in each flight, or will it be allocated by tier - i.e Golds will get put in better seats than Silvers etc?
Perhaps C-W-S will be continually randomly allocated 1F?
Perhaps C-W-S will be continually randomly allocated 1F?
Mar 3, 2015, 1:46 am
#453
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,229
I always thought that HBO was a step too far. In an ideal world, they would remove this fare altogether.
Shiny card holders shouldnt buy "cheapskate" fares and expect bells and whistles imho.
The standard traveller fares get everything thrown in.
I don't see the problem really - this was inevitable, as is charging for food & drink in cheapo economy. I know it is not cheap - but that's the whole point of the big con of LCC model. It often isn't cheap! I don't agree with much of what BA is doing lately:-
- experienced crew not valued;
- no space in CE and nowhere to hang a jacket;
- HBO fares;
- Lack of investment in fleet until too late - the 747s should be sorted by now.
Set in that context, what do people expect?
Makes BA Connect look like a full service airline!
Shiny card holders shouldnt buy "cheapskate" fares and expect bells and whistles imho.
The standard traveller fares get everything thrown in.
I don't see the problem really - this was inevitable, as is charging for food & drink in cheapo economy. I know it is not cheap - but that's the whole point of the big con of LCC model. It often isn't cheap! I don't agree with much of what BA is doing lately:-
- experienced crew not valued;
- no space in CE and nowhere to hang a jacket;
- HBO fares;
- Lack of investment in fleet until too late - the 747s should be sorted by now.
Set in that context, what do people expect?
Makes BA Connect look like a full service airline!
Last edited by IAMORGAN; Mar 3, 2015 at 1:51 am
Mar 3, 2015, 2:02 am
#454
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold / Hilton Diamond / IHG Diamond Ambassador / Marriot Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,536
Exactly!^^^^That is exactly what BA should have done if they are to tackle the over flowing of cabin luggage problem. But they are not doing that because they are offering free checked bag upon boarding gate as a solution (you see this very often now in T5 SH departure, BA makes announcement to a full flight to ask for volunteers to check their large items for free). So it backs to the other hypothesis, BA wants revenue from its loyal customers. Simple.
Mar 3, 2015, 2:04 am
#455
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, AA EXP
Posts: 1,140
Now it's going a stage further - this base (HBO) fare now doesn't include seat selection either. The steady creep of taking things away in this manner is a bizarre way to do it. As mentioned above, BA can't out-LCC the LCCs which is why they're making such a mess of dealing with all this.
Except for any RFS award tickets, all my short-haul flights are HBO - in fact, I can't remember when I last checked a bag in for a short-haul flight. I've no idea if BA intended status holders to be using these fares but I'm at a loss as to why they think they wouldn't (especially customers flying on business for a day or two).
Mar 3, 2015, 2:07 am
#456
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, AA EXP
Posts: 1,140
Trust me, once you go down the road of looking at long-haul premium classes on other airlines by focussing on product offering and price then BA becomes increasingly difficult to justify as well these days.
Mar 3, 2015, 2:17 am
#458
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
As far as I'm concerned the whole issue of baggage is a red herring, put in the e-mail to make it look as if they're making the changes to improve the situation for customers. The announced changes will do absolutely NOTHING to solve the overcrowded cabins and baggage problem.
The bottom line, I think, is that passengers have already started to change their buying habits and BA has noticed on the balance sheets. They need to be very careful what they do next.
I don't care how anybody cares to try and dress this up, BA management have given a massive kick in the teeth to those that have been loyal.
Mar 3, 2015, 2:18 am
#459
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: not far from MUC
Posts: 6,620
The cheapest HBO fare from MUC to LON is currently €81 (booked in O).
The cheapest with-checked-bag ET fare from VRN to LON is currently €56 (also booked in O).
How are pax supposed to identify whether they're offending BA's beancounters by booking "cheapskate" fares? The price paid doesn't appear to be a very good guide.
that's the whole point of the big con of LCC model. It often isn't cheap!
Mar 3, 2015, 2:22 am
#460
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA GfL, Marriott PlatfL/Ambassador, TP Gold, IHG Spire
Posts: 1,656
Those here who say that GCHs/SCHs would not normally buy HBOs really don't have a clue about what people that travel for work really have to go through.
- if anything, this is the sort of fare that very frequent fliers would buy - do you really think someone who travels 200 segments a year wants to wait 66 hours per year for bags (avg. 200 sectors, 20 minutes on average wait)? Also, a frequent traveler knows that bags make it more difficult to move to a different flight if you are already checked in...
- a lot of corporate TAs make you book the cheapest fare and that is HBO
I really don't understand who was the absolute moron who decided to come up with this idea. I am very sorry to say, but the person / team who thought that this was going to be a good idea should have their heads checked.
- if anything, this is the sort of fare that very frequent fliers would buy - do you really think someone who travels 200 segments a year wants to wait 66 hours per year for bags (avg. 200 sectors, 20 minutes on average wait)? Also, a frequent traveler knows that bags make it more difficult to move to a different flight if you are already checked in...
- a lot of corporate TAs make you book the cheapest fare and that is HBO
I really don't understand who was the absolute moron who decided to come up with this idea. I am very sorry to say, but the person / team who thought that this was going to be a good idea should have their heads checked.
Mar 3, 2015, 2:36 am
#461
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, A3 *Gold
Posts: 887
Those here who say that GCHs/SCHs would not normally buy HBOs really don't have a clue about what people that travel for work really have to go through.
- if anything, this is the sort of fare that very frequent fliers would buy - do you really think someone who travels 200 segments a year wants to wait 66 hours per year for bags (avg. 200 sectors, 20 minutes on average wait)? Also, a frequent traveler knows that bags make it more difficult to move to a different flight if you are already checked in...
- a lot of corporate TAs make you book the cheapest fare and that is HBO
I really don't understand who was the absolute moron who decided to come up with this idea. I am very sorry to say, but the person / team who thought that this was going to be a good idea should have their heads checked.
- if anything, this is the sort of fare that very frequent fliers would buy - do you really think someone who travels 200 segments a year wants to wait 66 hours per year for bags (avg. 200 sectors, 20 minutes on average wait)? Also, a frequent traveler knows that bags make it more difficult to move to a different flight if you are already checked in...
- a lot of corporate TAs make you book the cheapest fare and that is HBO
I really don't understand who was the absolute moron who decided to come up with this idea. I am very sorry to say, but the person / team who thought that this was going to be a good idea should have their heads checked.
I can see many many DYKWIA moments as golds and silvers unaware of these changes start to find themselves unable to select a seat at check in. If BA think this is a small change that won't affect many of their most loyal customers I'm afraid they have misjudged. (I would imagine there may be GCHs who normally travel CE who might only discover this on a rare ET trip who will be very upset. BA may look at this as only affecting 2% of their most frequeant travellor trips but if it affects 60% of GCHs 1% of the time the feeling of dissapointment in those 1% trips could be huge).
Last edited by RobDBA; Mar 3, 2015 at 2:47 am
Mar 3, 2015, 2:39 am
#462
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LON
Posts: 388
Those here who say that GCHs/SCHs would not normally buy HBOs really don't have a clue about what people that travel for work really have to go through.
- if anything, this is the sort of fare that very frequent fliers would buy - ...
I really don't understand who was the absolute moron who decided to come up with this idea. I am very sorry to say, but the person / team who thought that this was going to be a good idea should have their heads checked.
- if anything, this is the sort of fare that very frequent fliers would buy - ...
I really don't understand who was the absolute moron who decided to come up with this idea. I am very sorry to say, but the person / team who thought that this was going to be a good idea should have their heads checked.
Mar 3, 2015, 2:45 am
#463
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Thames Valley
Programs: BAEC, LHM&M, and even a dusty KLFB!
Posts: 894
No no no. That's terribly bad for the environment - just think of the emissions - as well as your back. Just check in large but empty cardboard boxes instead ;-)
Mar 3, 2015, 2:45 am
#464
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: Latinpass Million Miler. BA Gold.
Posts: 3,544
If BA found that the HBO reduced yield, surely they could have restricted the availability of the HBO fares? They do that anyway - sometimes there are cheap 'normal' fares, but no corresponding HBO fares. Or they could have increased the fares by a couple of quid. That seems a far less risky strategy than upsetting the frequent travellers by reducing SCH+ benefits.
Actually HBO is a bit of a rod for their own back. Of course it would reduce yield - that was the whole point because they have to compete with the LCCs on headline price. It should have generated more business for them. If it didn't the yield management team needs a kick up the backside.
Actually HBO is a bit of a rod for their own back. Of course it would reduce yield - that was the whole point because they have to compete with the LCCs on headline price. It should have generated more business for them. If it didn't the yield management team needs a kick up the backside.
Mar 3, 2015, 2:47 am
#465
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: not far from MUC
Posts: 6,620
Got this:
Not a whole lot of premium experience about that screen, is there? Do BA want to copy this?
I just don't understand how BA can out-LCC the LCCs (unless VY takes over - say - the LGW s/h routes, which i still think is a possibility).
Q: What kind of airline do BA aspire to be over the next decade?