Aug 7, 2015, 5:53 am
Last edit by: NWIFlyer
Hand Baggage Only fares (HBO) are available on domestic and EuroTraveller routes. They are offered at a lower price to those able to travel without checked baggage on point to point journeys only - they are not offered with connections, stopovers or with Club Europe. There isn't a special fare bucket for HBO, it's just a discount to all domestic/ET fare buckets, so even expensive flexible tickets offer HBO. The discount varies depending on route. For example, going HBO on LHR-DUB gives a £10 discount; £15 on LHR-PRG; and £20 on LHR-ATH. Online Travel Agents often book into these fares (including building stopovers) and are sometimes less than transparent about the baggage restrictions during the booking process. HBO fares do not earn OnBusiness credits.
BAEC status passengers from Bronze upwards get advance seat choice with these tickets.
How to get seat allocation if HBO and without status:
- Pay up. You can pay up at OLCI if you don't like the seat. Costs vary from £7 to £21 per sector as a minimum, with differential pricing employed for better seats (e.g. an exit row on LHR-DUB was £23 in June 2017). Usually, but not always, this invalidates the cost saving of HBO. You can also pay up in Manage My Booking (MMB) before OLCI.
- Cancel OLCI at the "confirm contact details" stage. Go in again and/or later and you may be offered another seat.
- Corporate travel bookings still offer seating to HBO in some cases. Sometimes this ability is temporary and doesn't stick.
- Ask check-in or the lounge agent for a better seat, so far this seems to be possible. Lounge agents won't be able to assist where they aren't part of the ground handling for BA (e.g. LBA).
- If your airport has a Self Service Check In (SSCI) machine AND you do not print your boarding pass (see below) then you can select another seat there provided check-in is still open, typically up to 46 minutes before take off. So if you are being allocated a rotten seat and you can see better seats available, you can take a risk and complete/commence check-in later.
SSCI machines are available at: LHR, LGW, LCY, MAN, EDI (on the general purpose airport machines, but only those by the BA check-in area), NCE, BRU, OSL, BLL, AAR, MUC, AMS.
They are NOT available at: ABZ, BHD, GLA, LBA, NCL, DUB, CDG, ORY, SVG, DUS, TXL, MAH, CFU, OLB, CTA, CAG, FDH, ANE, UIP, BIO, HER, SVQ, PMI, BRI.
You can also do this operation the night before at LGW and LHR, details here.
By "printing boarding pass" we mean not selecting that option at OLCI, or saving, emailing, faxing and/or downloading the boarding pass on the App.
HBO fares - Have to pay to select seat in advance [free for GCH/SCH/BCHs @ 14 Jun 17]
Mar 2, 2015, 3:35 pm
#391
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Londinium
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 930
If I don't need to bring a large bag on a weekend city break, why would I book the checked bag fare?
Mar 2, 2015, 3:36 pm
#392
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London, Sth Africa or LAS
Programs: VS Silver, BA Blue - finally; but hotels.com Gold :)
Posts: 1,858
This is an uncoordinated company: HBO not thought through; A random succession of short-term grabs, and confusion as to whether Mr Corporate is or isn't the core customer. Today's change announcement (with less than 1 month's forewarning) follows the trend.
Today I was sat an a delayed A321 (reading the start of this thread
). I counted 12 seats on the plane I'd be content to sit on. It wasn't full but 20 minutes after boarding started, luggage space ran out and we were delayed further.
Look BA, all I want for my £250rtn is a comfy seat (selected at booking), a prompt getaway and a quick disembarkation. Ok, I want to trust the airline to be safe too.
Today's announcement makes these less likely not more likely.
Today I was sat an a delayed A321 (reading the start of this thread
). I counted 12 seats on the plane I'd be content to sit on. It wasn't full but 20 minutes after boarding started, luggage space ran out and we were delayed further.Look BA, all I want for my £250rtn is a comfy seat (selected at booking), a prompt getaway and a quick disembarkation. Ok, I want to trust the airline to be safe too.
Today's announcement makes these less likely not more likely.
Mar 2, 2015, 3:41 pm
#393
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,106
Perhaps BA just need to get on with it ... draw a curtain across the back third and call it 'super economy' (I suspect 'third class' might not go down well) - hand baggage only, board after everyone else, no free food or drink, no miles or TP, reduce the seat pitch even further and no seat allocation.
Of course - if they wanted to make it tempting to buy those seats - they could put Michael O'Leary pictures on punch bags above every seat.
Then you can have op-ups out of third class into normal economy as one of your three - as well as POUG offers!M.
Of course - if they wanted to make it tempting to buy those seats - they could put Michael O'Leary pictures on punch bags above every seat.
Then you can have op-ups out of third class into normal economy as one of your three - as well as POUG offers!M.
http://stagevu.com/video/jaumucafrzms
Mar 2, 2015, 3:45 pm
#395
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,213
Indeed but the stupidly is, the withdrawal of a seat allocation to BCH/SCH/GCHs will apply equally to the cheapest Standard as well as Semi-Flex and Fully Flex HBO fares.
Mar 2, 2015, 3:47 pm
#396
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: BAEC Gold, M&M Sen, Delta Skymiles Gold
Posts: 866
I got this quite insulting email too earlier today, but as I already have decided to move my SH flying to LCCs, it didn't feel relevant to me anyway. It just confirmed that my decision to stop using BA for short haul was the right one.
That I also have moved most of my Long haul flying to competing airlines and alliances is another story. QR and CX are pretty much the only OW carriers I use nowadays.
That I also have moved most of my Long haul flying to competing airlines and alliances is another story. QR and CX are pretty much the only OW carriers I use nowadays.
Mar 2, 2015, 3:49 pm
#397
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Programs: I go wherever the content takes me.
Posts: 5,698
I really am inclined to believe this is simply penny pinching on the IT rather than a conscious effort by BA to screw over status holders - even really high value GGLs etc. It just doesn't make sense.
Not that this makes it any better but surely they wouldn't be this petty. Surely.
Not that this makes it any better but surely they wouldn't be this petty. Surely.
This has nothing to do with IT.
Mar 2, 2015, 3:52 pm
#398
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Malta
Programs: BAEC Bronze
Posts: 671
^
:^. Well put. Hopefully a bit less time will be spent standing in the aisle while endless faffing goes on with everyone's hand baggage.
Yet again a thread full of hysteria over a minor change. As usual, most posters look at it solely from their personal perspective and moan because something too good to be true has had to come to an end.
BA launched HBOs as a discount to standard Y fares. It was in some ways a marketing gimmick, but it did offer a small saving for those willing to forego checked luggage. The problem is it was just too successful and for frequent business travellers too generous.
Result? Huge issues with excessive amounts of hand luggage. Lack of strict enforcement hasn't helped, but if even pax only took their entitlement, there is still too much hand luggage.
BA's solution - offer an even less frills product by removing seat selection from HBO fares in the hope more will opt for a standard fare with a luggage allowance that will actually use, or at least get in more money to make good some of the costs of the HBO discount.
Perhaps removing seat selection from GCHs is a bit harsh and perhaps there is a case for free selection at OLCI or 7 days out for SCHs. Who knows whether BA considered that, but decided against it.
What I do think is a given is that many see the HBO fare as the standard fare for the flight and resent paying what they is in fact the standard fare, even when they do actually need checked luggage. Witness the number of threads on here about putting in a single CE leg to get a luggage allowance on an entire itinerary, or requests for advice on how to purchase one standard fare and a number of HBO fares so whole family can take their luggage using extra status bags without all buying standard fares.
It may seem harsh, but what BA are saying is we can offer you a really cheap no frills fare but it is just that whatever your status; or for not much more you can have a standard fare with all the trimmings. The choice is yours.
Before the introduction of HBO fares, there was no option to get a cheaper fare by foregoing part of the service. Unfortunately, BA now feel commercially that they need to modify the service reduction offered by the HBO fares. Presumably they have an objective in terms of revenue and operational criteria. If this measure doesn't achieve it, then maybe lounge access will be next.
Whilst this reduces something previously offered, it still provides more choice than there was before as it continues to offer a lower cost option. Standard fares haven't increased in price and if they now offer items that you really value then may be HBOs are not for you.
BA launched HBOs as a discount to standard Y fares. It was in some ways a marketing gimmick, but it did offer a small saving for those willing to forego checked luggage. The problem is it was just too successful and for frequent business travellers too generous.
Result? Huge issues with excessive amounts of hand luggage. Lack of strict enforcement hasn't helped, but if even pax only took their entitlement, there is still too much hand luggage.
BA's solution - offer an even less frills product by removing seat selection from HBO fares in the hope more will opt for a standard fare with a luggage allowance that will actually use, or at least get in more money to make good some of the costs of the HBO discount.
Perhaps removing seat selection from GCHs is a bit harsh and perhaps there is a case for free selection at OLCI or 7 days out for SCHs. Who knows whether BA considered that, but decided against it.
What I do think is a given is that many see the HBO fare as the standard fare for the flight and resent paying what they is in fact the standard fare, even when they do actually need checked luggage. Witness the number of threads on here about putting in a single CE leg to get a luggage allowance on an entire itinerary, or requests for advice on how to purchase one standard fare and a number of HBO fares so whole family can take their luggage using extra status bags without all buying standard fares.
It may seem harsh, but what BA are saying is we can offer you a really cheap no frills fare but it is just that whatever your status; or for not much more you can have a standard fare with all the trimmings. The choice is yours.
Before the introduction of HBO fares, there was no option to get a cheaper fare by foregoing part of the service. Unfortunately, BA now feel commercially that they need to modify the service reduction offered by the HBO fares. Presumably they have an objective in terms of revenue and operational criteria. If this measure doesn't achieve it, then maybe lounge access will be next.
Whilst this reduces something previously offered, it still provides more choice than there was before as it continues to offer a lower cost option. Standard fares haven't increased in price and if they now offer items that you really value then may be HBOs are not for you.
Mar 2, 2015, 3:54 pm
#399
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 1,174
I think this just sums up the greed of BA/IAG at the minute, cutting back the airline to an unrecognisable figure of its once great self. The fact that IAG are now making record profits and yet BA still cut the very little "frill" that keeps many people returning along with the fact that many staff are on pay freezes really does just show as to how much they are driven by greed.
I am only BAEC Blue but have been greatly loyal to BA for pretty much the whole of my life however really do think that this is the final straw with them. For normal people e.g ( non business travellers who won't ever achieve more than Blue and to whom the saving of a HBO fare can be quite significant) BA basically sticks 2 fingers up to you and does not care anymore, I therefore am really struggling to see as to what or why I can still justify flying with them, as I still absolutely love them as a company but really are not much different to the likes of easyJet whose fares are a great deal cheaper, often with brilliant staff and more modern aircraft.
Perhaps this wouldn't even be so bad if it cost less to select your seat in advance with BA costing about £20 return, compared to £6 for EZY.
I am only BAEC Blue but have been greatly loyal to BA for pretty much the whole of my life however really do think that this is the final straw with them. For normal people e.g ( non business travellers who won't ever achieve more than Blue and to whom the saving of a HBO fare can be quite significant) BA basically sticks 2 fingers up to you and does not care anymore, I therefore am really struggling to see as to what or why I can still justify flying with them, as I still absolutely love them as a company but really are not much different to the likes of easyJet whose fares are a great deal cheaper, often with brilliant staff and more modern aircraft.
Perhaps this wouldn't even be so bad if it cost less to select your seat in advance with BA costing about £20 return, compared to £6 for EZY.
Mar 2, 2015, 3:58 pm
#400
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: GLA
Programs: BD (in memoriam), BA
Posts: 1,359
Even if they were being lazy and tightfisted, it shouldn't be at all hard to allow free choice for status pax if they wanted to. This is very much a business decision, not a technical one.
Mar 2, 2015, 3:59 pm
#401
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Programs: I go wherever the content takes me.
Posts: 5,698
HBO fares - Have to pay to select seat in advance [even for GCH/SCH/BCHs]
This is a complete own goal. I managed to evade the sieve with the latest BAEC changes and counted myself lucky.
I'm not even sure I'll be purchasing any HBO fares this year (most of my SH are RFS or in full flex owing to a J connection). I'm just annoyed that someone in Waterside has inflicted such a malevolent change on pretty valuable customers.
Way to create ill will BA.
I'm not even sure I'll be purchasing any HBO fares this year (most of my SH are RFS or in full flex owing to a J connection). I'm just annoyed that someone in Waterside has inflicted such a malevolent change on pretty valuable customers.
Way to create ill will BA.
Mar 2, 2015, 4:04 pm
#402
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA, U2+, SK, AF/KL, IHG, Hilton, others gathering dust...
Posts: 2,552
There is only one language they will understand. Move revenue away if you can and it suits you. I'm not especially bothered about this in isolation, but in combination with what has happened and what is no doubt to come, I will move business away from BA.
And here's how it works for me - if I fly less SH on BA, the value I get from status is diminished, so less incentive to earn it. That makes my decisions to fly BA or another carrier on LH J/F less likely to go in BA's favour (not that I would pay way over the odds to fly them anyway).
My LH premium cabin flying is not on ex-EU sale fares, and despite the impression created on FT, I suspect I'm far from alone in that. The competition on premium cabins is getting hotter and that's not just the Gulf and Asian carriers - how many would have said a few years ago that AA and DL were high-quality TATL options?
I won't stop flying BA, but only when it suits me on price/schedule. I'm likely to fly them a lot less SH and LH, and after the next GGL retention, I'm really not sure I want to bother trying to retain it. With that will go a good chunk of the high-margin business I currently give to BA. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I suspect I'm not alone.
I'm not emotional about it and I don't think BA owes me anything for my "loyalty", but it's not really a good idea to allow your customers to learn that they can in fact live without you.
And here's how it works for me - if I fly less SH on BA, the value I get from status is diminished, so less incentive to earn it. That makes my decisions to fly BA or another carrier on LH J/F less likely to go in BA's favour (not that I would pay way over the odds to fly them anyway).
My LH premium cabin flying is not on ex-EU sale fares, and despite the impression created on FT, I suspect I'm far from alone in that. The competition on premium cabins is getting hotter and that's not just the Gulf and Asian carriers - how many would have said a few years ago that AA and DL were high-quality TATL options?
I won't stop flying BA, but only when it suits me on price/schedule. I'm likely to fly them a lot less SH and LH, and after the next GGL retention, I'm really not sure I want to bother trying to retain it. With that will go a good chunk of the high-margin business I currently give to BA. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I suspect I'm not alone.
I'm not emotional about it and I don't think BA owes me anything for my "loyalty", but it's not really a good idea to allow your customers to learn that they can in fact live without you.
Mar 2, 2015, 4:21 pm
#403
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Programs: I go wherever the content takes me.
Posts: 5,698
Already experimenting with Eastern on short haul this spring. I've still got quite a few BA bookings to take but I'm going to sleep around with the competition this summer. U2 and FR will be getting test drives as well.
I remember when I had Priority Pass, and it now looks like good value again.
I don't really fancy waiting for BA to "come for me" with a gutting knife.
Mar 2, 2015, 4:26 pm
#404
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,772
One other consequence of this that's just occurred to me is that there will now be a LOT of pax requesting manual changes at check-in counters and in the lounges. Do you think the policy will be a straight up 'no changes if you're on HBO' or will staff be willing to do this? If so, they are going to have a lot more work on their hands...
Mar 2, 2015, 4:27 pm
#405
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Peak District
Programs: BAEC / Hilton Honors / Accor
Posts: 552
But will it, those that fly with cabin baggage only will still fly with cabin baggage regardless of what ticket they have. I have 2 RFS's to NCE and TXL coming up, will I be checking in a bag because the ticket I have allows free checked luggage, no of course not. BA's very generous cabin baggage allowance means I've never needed to check a bag. This new ruling will IMO have little effect when it comes to the faffing that goes on with everyone's cabin baggage, but a change to BA's very generous cabin baggage allowance will.
Last edited by 1HourPhoto; Mar 2, 2015 at 4:34 pm