HIDDY

That's only on long haul. Short haul flights are quite enjoyable even if I had to do them using a low cost airline.

The older I get the more claustrophobic I have become especially on busy long overnight flights. The guaranteed extra space you get in J is what I'm after. The baggage allowance, priority check-in and lounge access is also a bonus.

economyman

It's quite long for not drinking but no so long for not eating (although twice a year I don't drink or eat anything for 25 hours). TBH - unless it's a red eye, I usually eat on board any l/h flight, sometimes just a light fare, but at home I often go for 15 hours without eating anything and as I mentioned on another thread, on arrival I'll often not eat anything for 20 hours. I find that not eating for extended periods of times does me well.

In any case, I too buy J mostly and nearly exclusively for the more comfortable ride rather than the soft product on board. The pre-flight (lounges and priority queues if effective) and post-flight (one of the first off) benefits are also appreciated.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy flying.

Cap'n Benj

Nothing, that's my whole point. I prefer the BA seat myself but like the BA seat it's fine, nothing special at all though and if people say the BA seat is no longer up to scratch, the same has to be levelled at the NZ seat

The excellent soft product is why people rave about NZ, not the seat. If BA offered the same service levels, I think, like with NZ, people would overlook the seat

passy777

IF being the key word in your rantings.

I don't believe (nor deep down you do either I suspect) that the final nail in the coffin has been hammered home yet. Perhaps you may feel differently when (not if) further enhancements to BAEC are introduced.

As for the 'whingeing' passengers you referred to in your post, many of those could counter argue that no matter what enhancements BA introduce, there will be those with misguided loyalty who will stay loyal to BA no matter what and are prepared to accept persistent degradation of a product.

xenole

As I've already said, I'm not planning on dropping BA. Ok, they're not the most convenient airline for me, but the Executive Club and it's trappings have provided me many opportunities I wouldn't have had before.

Flying generally is a joy for me as I know in an hour or more, I'll be in Berlin, Rome, New York or wherever.
If I'm flying Y, I don't expect much more than a seat on a bus.

To more people, getting to their destination is far more important than earning 1000 Avios, 10TP etc. for that trip so it can't be costing BA that much in benefits for those people.

As for low value customers being hard to please, I do see the point when there ends up being next to nothing to differentiate between BA and a LCC. Watching the minor things being eroded over time isn't fun.
It doesn't exactly want to make me travel 2 hrs extra to LHR over East Midlands just to fly BA when the only real difference between them is convenience.

If I'm flying J or F and paying ££££ for it, I do expect something more than "lights out for 6 hrs.....here's your breakfast muffin....20 mins to landing...."

BAEC wise, you could in some aspects compare it to Tesco. They don't look so rosy now and a lot of people have gone elsewhere as 100CC points Vs. £10 savings isn't worth it in their opinion any more. It has had an effect on the profits etc.
(Not saying the airline industry is the same with regards to customer patterns)

Andriyko

What does 'loyalty' have to do with anything? Why would anyone travel with an airline if they're unhappy with its product? I don't think flying the same airline/alliance is loyalty - it's mutually benefiting. If someone is not chasing the perfect steak in the sky (wrong place to look for it) it does not mean that they're blindly loyal to an airline.

passy777

Perhaps because they have no other choice?

Location, routings and employers travel policies are examples that spring to mind where circumstances dictate what carrier is used.

Globaliser

In today's long-haul flying, the bed is the primary attraction of J, and the ability to reach your destination more quickly and efficiently is the primary attraction of one airline's J over another's J. The respective frills and thrills offered by the airlines usually only become prominently important when the airlines are competing directly against each other.

Those who pick their airlines primarily on the basis of the frills and thrills are more likely to be cost-conscious value-sensitive leisure passengers for whom speed and efficiency are less important on their relatively occasional journeys. It's become a more important market in long-haul J - look at BA's efforts to build up the "premium leisure" business. But it's not the airlines' bread and butter in long-haul J.

Of course, there are dangers in eroding service levels. But if you really think that only a minority of long-haul J passengers put the bed first and foremost amongst the features of the cabin, I think you're probably looking at it from the wrong perspective.

Dave Noble

Unless someone is forced by policy to use BA, there are very few places that are only served by BA

Andriyko

Whenever a new topic is created about how low BA has fallen every other post is about how powerful everybody is, how their employer would fly them whatever airline they want or they would quit and how they set and control entire travel budgets... I guess I was right that the reality differed somewhat.

But, anyway, the discussion is about people with choice - a lot of people described how nice other airlines are and yet continue to fly BA. I don't understand it.

shorthauldad

Were LH, KL, AF - and all the other airlines without proper flat beds in J - flying with empty J cabins for years?

Globaliser

ISTR that they did struggle badly.

where2travel

I don't think BA's inability to present an edible steak is what's driving most of the discussion on this thread (although it does seem to have sidetracked it a bit), there's far more at play here.

chiefwiggumpi

Not been on i a while for various reasons but my view on this thread is the following...

Been a collector of avios in various forms purely as a leisure traveller only for about 3 years. Amassed 225k but as we keep flitting between bronze and blue depending on our plans i dont see any real need to become a TP runner. Therefore i have just burnt out entire avios stock on;

BA CE LHR - FRA
QR J FRA - DOH on an A350
QR F DOH - AUH
QR F AUH - DOH
QR J DOH - LHR on an A319

Plus an overnighter at Sofitel T5

All in for two adults and 1 under two was about £800.

Considering the recent changes in the BAEC to our level and the devaluation of our use of avios we decided the game of storing them up for a rainy day was pointless. Availability has become dire on some routes as well. Using avios with toddler C after he is two combined with the school holidays just seemed to much of a high price to pay using them.

Our last CE a couple of months ago was garbage on the way out brilliant on the way back. So were giving QR a try and if anything well fly elsewhere. Im sure BA arent bothered but then again neither are we. They are great SOMETIMES like all airlines but why we choose specifically to drive 3 hrs to get to LHR just fly with them seems a bit daft now.

With sales on were opening our eyes to the fact that BA arent the be all and end all and actually we should look around for flights.

Cradders

Some interesting comments here. Certainly I do think that the lack of competition and the economic upturn have combined to create an environment where BA feel that it's perhaps safer to take risks in alienating/losing customers to increase profitability.

I get the impression that the customer facing staff are starting to feel weary with it, though. Actually, amusingly (depending on which way you look at it), I got a greeting the other day on a mid-J 744 which consisted of "Good to see you onboard, Mr Cradders. Is everything working OK on your seat? Because a lot of seats on this aircraft are broken!"

That's not really the voice of someone who has a real feeling of joy and motivation I'd say.

Aside from that, thanks for your comments, HIDDY - you might well be right that I have had enough of it all. I've got a TATL trip next week and then I'm going to take a few months off travelling I think to see how I feel after that.

As a further aside, I thought the comments from c-w-s were lovely - it's great to see that someone who travels so much is still so enthusiastic about it.