Is it just me or are BA really starting to suck all of the joy out of flying lately?
Feb 19, 2015, 8:55 am
#76
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Israel (some of the time)
Programs: BA GGL, CCR; AF/KLM FB Silver; M&M LH FTL; LY GLD; HH Diamond; SPG Gold; A-Club Silver; Avis PCI
Posts: 2,054
The seat is not everything, it's only one part of the product and service. I said overall and I meant overall, but frankly I also prefer a BA window seat (especially on the UD) to the AA seat. I find it more comfortable and more private even if it provides less personal space.
Since flying AA a couple of times I have had the opportunity to chose them again several times on the 77W and have actively avoided. In my couple of trials on AA (both red eyes) the service went on for ages and was loud when all I want from such a flight is to sleep, there were announcements over the PA, and the safety belt ding was heard several times. There was also not much to my liking in the lounge prior to the flight and BA gives me all I want at pre-flight dining so I can go straight to sleep.
I also prefer BA cabin crew most of the time.
Feb 19, 2015, 8:58 am
#77
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, AA EXP
Posts: 1,140
Where other airlines have some inconsistent seating across their fleet, BA has inconsistent cabins of seating - J on the A318 and, to some degree (assuming the cabin interior is in a reasonable state), the upper deck on the B747 are a world away from the awful J cabin densities on the B777, B787, A380 and main deck of the B747.
Flying J, I can generally avoid the routes on BA where I don't like the seating in the same way that I can avoid AA on the routes not operated by the 77Ws. Same for QR etc.
Flying J, I can generally avoid the routes on BA where I don't like the seating in the same way that I can avoid AA on the routes not operated by the 77Ws. Same for QR etc.
Feb 19, 2015, 9:30 am
#80
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, Subcard
Posts: 435
I have only been BA EC member for a year now and achieved gold. I travel for leisure only and will only book J with a sale.
For my kind of travel I think the EC is pretty good (less so from April 28th). I wouldn't say I feel passionate about supporting BA mainly because I don't look at the airline and what they offer as being impressive, more convenience. I can book cheap european flights, enjoy pretty good lounges that are not offered by low cost carriers.
If you are a leisure traveler like me its so easy to remain gold each year, a few LH J trips with QR earning 560 TP a go for £1100 to places like HKG or SIN is excellent or a cheap EX-EU run.
I don't really understand why other leisure travelers with a similar setup to me complain about the experience, you don't have to fly BA. There is a choice now when heading west so your not tied down to BA and heading south and east the offers from QR are excellent value for money and BA don't come close to matching the customer experience/value.
I do feel sorry for people that travel frequently for work that have to use BA as things appear to only have got worse over the years whilst watching most of the competition improve/better their offerings.
It would be fascinating if the ME3 were allowed to operate flights out of LHR to the west when a 3rd runway is built... The speed at which BA would back pedal would be amusing.
For my kind of travel I think the EC is pretty good (less so from April 28th). I wouldn't say I feel passionate about supporting BA mainly because I don't look at the airline and what they offer as being impressive, more convenience. I can book cheap european flights, enjoy pretty good lounges that are not offered by low cost carriers.
If you are a leisure traveler like me its so easy to remain gold each year, a few LH J trips with QR earning 560 TP a go for £1100 to places like HKG or SIN is excellent or a cheap EX-EU run.
I don't really understand why other leisure travelers with a similar setup to me complain about the experience, you don't have to fly BA. There is a choice now when heading west so your not tied down to BA and heading south and east the offers from QR are excellent value for money and BA don't come close to matching the customer experience/value.
I do feel sorry for people that travel frequently for work that have to use BA as things appear to only have got worse over the years whilst watching most of the competition improve/better their offerings.
It would be fascinating if the ME3 were allowed to operate flights out of LHR to the west when a 3rd runway is built... The speed at which BA would back pedal would be amusing.
Feb 19, 2015, 9:32 am
#81
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Platinum, Accor Gold
Posts: 1,019
Feb 19, 2015, 9:42 am
#82
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the air
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Posts: 8,720
I think that the OP's post has hit a nerve. More than just disappointment at any part of the hard or soft product I often get the feeling that BA management almost dislike their passengers in the same vein as Ryanair feels about the crowds on their flying buses.
I was chatting to a friend who is one of BA's top 100 or so individual customers about the Avios devaluation and his response was "Of course they've done this - now we're coming out of recession BA are able to be complete .......s to their passengers again".
It's a shame really, as when you're spending tens of thousands of pounds per year, years on end with one company which takes you home and provides somewhere to sleep for a night should be one where you develop a warm feeling with.
I was chatting to a friend who is one of BA's top 100 or so individual customers about the Avios devaluation and his response was "Of course they've done this - now we're coming out of recession BA are able to be complete .......s to their passengers again".
It's a shame really, as when you're spending tens of thousands of pounds per year, years on end with one company which takes you home and provides somewhere to sleep for a night should be one where you develop a warm feeling with.
Feb 19, 2015, 10:18 am
#85
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,212
By all means do shop around. That's your money and only you can decide what's good for you. I don't see any difference between BA, AA (yes, they have what I consider a better seat but AA is in bed with BA so I am neutral here), AF, LH, etc... I do not fly to Asia/Australia so I don't what CX, QR and others offer. But otherwise it is the same experience - welcome drink, appetizer, main course, desert, pre-arrival meal, drinks throughout the flight. If BA stops offering food or wines then I will consider it a big downgrade, Otherwise it is pretty much the same. Steaks cooked to perfection only exist on FT.
I don't expect to be made to feel special nor do I expect a dining experience equivalent to that of a restaurant. Neither do I expect to have the same sleeping experience that I get in any Travelodge bed. Apart from travelling a great distance quickly and safely for not a lot of money compared to other public transport what is it I'm missing?
Feb 19, 2015, 10:30 am
#86
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Indeed!
The seat is not everything, it's only one part of the product and service. I said overall and I meant overall, but frankly I also prefer a BA window seat (especially on the UD) to the AA seat. I find it more comfortable and more private even if it provides less personal space.
Since flying AA a couple of times I have had the opportunity to chose them again several times on the 77W and have actively avoided. In my couple of trials on AA (both red eyes) the service went on for ages and was loud when all I want from such a flight is to sleep, there were announcements over the PA, and the safety belt ding was heard several times. There was also not much to my liking in the lounge prior to the flight and BA gives me all I want at pre-flight dining so I can go straight to sleep.
I also prefer BA cabin crew most of the time.
The seat is not everything, it's only one part of the product and service. I said overall and I meant overall, but frankly I also prefer a BA window seat (especially on the UD) to the AA seat. I find it more comfortable and more private even if it provides less personal space.
Since flying AA a couple of times I have had the opportunity to chose them again several times on the 77W and have actively avoided. In my couple of trials on AA (both red eyes) the service went on for ages and was loud when all I want from such a flight is to sleep, there were announcements over the PA, and the safety belt ding was heard several times. There was also not much to my liking in the lounge prior to the flight and BA gives me all I want at pre-flight dining so I can go straight to sleep.
I also prefer BA cabin crew most of the time.
"product, I don't notice all these little nuances of degradation in product or service, probably because I care little. I want a comfortable seat to work and play in, a flat bed to sleep in, reasonable food, and lounges to make the journey more comfortable. "
Each to their own though.
Feb 19, 2015, 11:12 am
#87
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brighton, UK
Programs: BA Gold, IC Ambassador, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 3,166
Once upon a time there was an airline which epitomised everything that was good about its country. It flew from airports all over its land, offering a cheery greeting and unrivalled service to its ever loyal passengers. Each was offered a gourmet meal accompanied by fine wines and after dinner liqueurs, even on UK domestics. The cabins were immaculately clean and the fully-flat J beds were the talk of the aviation industry. No plane ever left the UK late and if there was trouble in foreign lands, the airline sorted it out without a murmur of discontent. Every passenger was happy as sated on haute cuisine and fine wine they drifted off to sleep as the crew read their favourite bedtime story ...
... Sorry, I just woke up. How the memory can play tricks on you! I was just dreaming what BA was like 10 years ago!
I am sorry, I do think this is being looked at with rose-tinted glasses, by many with either short or overly-rosy memories.
I have flown BA regularly since the 80s. BA ten years ago was different to now (and so was BA 15, 20 or 30 years ago) but I wouldn't say everything then was better though.
Who would prefer: The old seats in F, nevermind J? The lounges at LHR? The old IFE systems? Tiny or no operation at LCY? No redemptions on AA TALT? No pre-flight food ordering?
Somethings have stayed the same: extent of route network, punctuality, speed between A - B (excepting loss of Concorde), quality of crew, basic service pattern.
Worse? Cost of redemptions (but be careful where you pitch your comparison as BA have made things more and less costly over the years), contents of amenity kits, items Club Kitchen (or Larder if we are going back that far), quality of booze (wines are noticeably worse) or quality/choice/ availability of food.
It strikes me that if you look at the variables then BA have improved somethings whilst clearly cutting others. It is after all a commercial organisation in an ever-changing environment.
Over the last 20 years we have seen the rise of the LCCs, a massive drop in air travel post 9/11, increased competition from (often subsidised) Gulf carriers, catch up improvements by the NA competition, the banking crisis and less generous corporate travel policies.
What we haven't seen however is a massive increase in real terms prices - indeed quite the reverse - it is cheaper to fly today than it was in the 80s and 90s. That suggests to me that we have a highly competitive environment which is benefitting customers by keeping prices down whilst ensuring the maintenance of a reasonable quality product. Of course it's not the old Super Club product or the catering offering in the late 1940s First, but nor is it the equivalent price and we can reach Australia in less than a week!
As for the service losing its sparkle. For me it hasn't, but I am a frequent leisure flyer.
When I spent 10 years commuting for work, I would have said my daily train service had lost its sparkle. The fact that over that time slam-door trains had gone, airconditioning had arrived, seat comfort was better, there was complementary catering in First and the trains ran on time wouldn't have figured in it, I would still have said the sparkle had gone.
Now was that the train operator's fault or just my perceptions being coloured by thoughts of the tedium of yet another train journey?
... Sorry, I just woke up. How the memory can play tricks on you! I was just dreaming what BA was like 10 years ago!
I am sorry, I do think this is being looked at with rose-tinted glasses, by many with either short or overly-rosy memories.
I have flown BA regularly since the 80s. BA ten years ago was different to now (and so was BA 15, 20 or 30 years ago) but I wouldn't say everything then was better though.
Who would prefer: The old seats in F, nevermind J? The lounges at LHR? The old IFE systems? Tiny or no operation at LCY? No redemptions on AA TALT? No pre-flight food ordering?
Somethings have stayed the same: extent of route network, punctuality, speed between A - B (excepting loss of Concorde), quality of crew, basic service pattern.
Worse? Cost of redemptions (but be careful where you pitch your comparison as BA have made things more and less costly over the years), contents of amenity kits, items Club Kitchen (or Larder if we are going back that far), quality of booze (wines are noticeably worse) or quality/choice/ availability of food.
It strikes me that if you look at the variables then BA have improved somethings whilst clearly cutting others. It is after all a commercial organisation in an ever-changing environment.
Over the last 20 years we have seen the rise of the LCCs, a massive drop in air travel post 9/11, increased competition from (often subsidised) Gulf carriers, catch up improvements by the NA competition, the banking crisis and less generous corporate travel policies.
What we haven't seen however is a massive increase in real terms prices - indeed quite the reverse - it is cheaper to fly today than it was in the 80s and 90s. That suggests to me that we have a highly competitive environment which is benefitting customers by keeping prices down whilst ensuring the maintenance of a reasonable quality product. Of course it's not the old Super Club product or the catering offering in the late 1940s First, but nor is it the equivalent price and we can reach Australia in less than a week!
As for the service losing its sparkle. For me it hasn't, but I am a frequent leisure flyer.
When I spent 10 years commuting for work, I would have said my daily train service had lost its sparkle. The fact that over that time slam-door trains had gone, airconditioning had arrived, seat comfort was better, there was complementary catering in First and the trains ran on time wouldn't have figured in it, I would still have said the sparkle had gone.
Now was that the train operator's fault or just my perceptions being coloured by thoughts of the tedium of yet another train journey?
Feb 19, 2015, 11:15 am
#88
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
They can produce a steak with a pink centre on even their regional business class.
Feb 19, 2015, 11:40 am
#89
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,856
No, I've still got the buzz, I've got flights on BA in the next few days to Basle, Lisbon, London, Gibraltar, Hannover and Marseille, and I'm looking forward to each and every one of these flights - what a great selection of places to visit. Travel, ladies and gentlemen: it's all in the mind!
Feb 19, 2015, 11:41 am
#90
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
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Posts: 7,691
I did not mean it literally. I meant that the passion with which it is discussed or the standard that every airline is judged upon (how a steak is cooked) only exists on FT. Would I choose an airline based on how my steak is cooked? No. Mostly because I don't care for steaks. But more importantly because I don't fly for food - I appreciate that the airline feeds me when I am flying but food is never part of the decision-making process. Simply because I know that no airline will ever match the experience of a really good restaurant. For example, I think that AA serves better wines than BA in J (mostly because I love CA wines) but it is a matter of personal choice and I would never choose AA just because of that.
We're all free to choose which airline we fly with but it is not all gloom and doom because the wine is of the wrong vintage or from the wrong region or steak is over/undercooked. Most (non-FT) people will be excited to be fed at all and to be sitting in an extremely comfortable seat. And I am not saying that we should all be striving towards the lowest standard to please the least demanding passengers but on the other hand people who complain about these little things which the absolute majority just don't even notice are simply hard to please.
We're all free to choose which airline we fly with but it is not all gloom and doom because the wine is of the wrong vintage or from the wrong region or steak is over/undercooked. Most (non-FT) people will be excited to be fed at all and to be sitting in an extremely comfortable seat. And I am not saying that we should all be striving towards the lowest standard to please the least demanding passengers but on the other hand people who complain about these little things which the absolute majority just don't even notice are simply hard to please.