Is it just me or are BA really starting to suck all of the joy out of flying lately?
Mar 3, 2015, 2:43 am
#256
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 200
You do make some valid points.
1- It is my experience from the inside that if a few director's get a few valid letters on why the CUSTOMER(s) will vote with their wallets, they will raise the question to company managers. It is a bit of work but certainly will play a role in restoring BA to its glory days. Something a lot of FTers desire.
2- Yes many of late have indicated they have or plan to switch air carriers. FT is a mere fraction of the flying public so one has to wonder how many are lost ? after all the pool to conquest sales is shrinking as other airlines move forward with superior products.
1- It is my experience from the inside that if a few director's get a few valid letters on why the CUSTOMER(s) will vote with their wallets, they will raise the question to company managers. It is a bit of work but certainly will play a role in restoring BA to its glory days. Something a lot of FTers desire.
2- Yes many of late have indicated they have or plan to switch air carriers. FT is a mere fraction of the flying public so one has to wonder how many are lost ? after all the pool to conquest sales is shrinking as other airlines move forward with superior products.
You're right, it is indeed true that many directors may end up disconnected from their customer base, especially in a large organisation. That said, it is surely their responsibility on some level to try to regain than connection in some way - be that through random sampling of CS enquiries/complaints, making themselves more visible or available, "walking the floor" and so on. I don't see any evidence they are doing this and if I am honest I would have little faith that any enquiry would even be on their radar unless it from from a major blue chip threatening to walk. My company probably has about 10 frequent travellers in it. The impression I get is that this level of spend is pretty risible to BA based upon recent activity.
I have little doubt that our spend will decrease with them, and this is likely to be true for many companies that have the flexibility to be able to do so. That said, BA and IAG generally are highly profitable at the moment and I think it will take some time before they really start to feel the effects of their changes - or care about them.
Mar 3, 2015, 11:45 am
#257
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Edinburgh
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 9,034
Do you not pick up on a change in sentiment on this board?
Maybe its just a different mix of people now now, but I certainly think there's more negatively towards BA on this board than at any time since I first started visiting here.
Anecdotal, yes, but still very apparent IMO.
Maybe its just a different mix of people now now, but I certainly think there's more negatively towards BA on this board than at any time since I first started visiting here.
Anecdotal, yes, but still very apparent IMO.
Mar 3, 2015, 12:20 pm
#258
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MAN/BHX
Programs: ABBA
Posts: 6,027
I was close, as a gold who almost always flys RFS when using avios, never HBO, and almost always on full-fare tickets meant all in all things were actually looking profitable. However the doubling of RFS price turned me right off BA. The BA rep at work told me to F-off. They aren't interested in those of us senior enough to actually choose our flights.
Mar 3, 2015, 12:40 pm
#259
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: BA Exec Club Gold, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 214
Following up on PUCCI's and HMPS's comments about writing to a director
How would you go about that ... to best effect ?
I certainly feel strongly enough to do it...
How would you go about that ... to best effect ?
I certainly feel strongly enough to do it...
Mar 3, 2015, 1:53 pm
#261
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
You can obtain the directors' particulars from Companies House (there is an administration charge of £1).
Almost all of them however only provide a service address
WATERSIDE SPEEDBIRD WAY
HARMONDSWORTH
UNITED KINGDOM
UB7 0GB
Last edited by Calchas; Mar 3, 2015 at 2:06 pm
Mar 3, 2015, 4:31 pm
#262
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: A hop, skip and jump away from MAN.
Programs: BAEC Gold, ex-VS Gold, ex-UA Gold, Premier Inn Platinum-Iridium
Posts: 1,114
You can find a list of the BA Board of Directors here : http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zht...=irol-govboard
It still lists Frank vdP as a Director at this stage.
You'll note well that there are more Directors drawn from the Executive (5) versus non-Execs (4), and that the Chair is also the CEO.
Both the imbalance (i.e. the staffers outnumber the non-execs) and the latter point (Chair & CEO are same person) are questionable when considering whether a publicly traded organisation has good governance.
Of course, BA is now a subsidiary while IAG are the traded entity, so these best practices apply to IAG, rather than BA directly, and Spanish best practices are likely somewhat different to UK ones.
While you might get a (surprisingly) candid response from a BA Director, as opposed to a cut-and-paste, don't necessarily expect it to change anything. The first duty appears to be toward the IAG stock price.
Mike (Non-Exec Director. Charitable Trustee. Chairperson.)
It still lists Frank vdP as a Director at this stage.
You'll note well that there are more Directors drawn from the Executive (5) versus non-Execs (4), and that the Chair is also the CEO.
Both the imbalance (i.e. the staffers outnumber the non-execs) and the latter point (Chair & CEO are same person) are questionable when considering whether a publicly traded organisation has good governance.
Of course, BA is now a subsidiary while IAG are the traded entity, so these best practices apply to IAG, rather than BA directly, and Spanish best practices are likely somewhat different to UK ones.
While you might get a (surprisingly) candid response from a BA Director, as opposed to a cut-and-paste, don't necessarily expect it to change anything. The first duty appears to be toward the IAG stock price.
Mike (Non-Exec Director. Charitable Trustee. Chairperson.)
Mar 3, 2015, 5:43 pm
#263
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
You're right, it is indeed true that many directors may end up disconnected from their customer base, especially in a large organisation. That said, it is surely their responsibility on some level to try to regain than connection in some way - be that through random sampling of CS enquiries/complaints, making themselves more visible or available, "walking the floor" and so on. I don't see any evidence they are doing this and if I am honest I would have little faith that any enquiry would even be on their radar unless it from from a major blue chip threatening to walk. My company probably has about 10 frequent travellers in it. The impression I get is that this level of spend is pretty risible to BA based upon recent activity.
I have little doubt that our spend will decrease with them, and this is likely to be true for many companies that have the flexibility to be able to do so. That said, BA and IAG generally are highly profitable at the moment and I think it will take some time before they really start to feel the effects of their changes - or care about them.
I have little doubt that our spend will decrease with them, and this is likely to be true for many companies that have the flexibility to be able to do so. That said, BA and IAG generally are highly profitable at the moment and I think it will take some time before they really start to feel the effects of their changes - or care about them.
So yes in today's world if multiple directors got succinct , true dissatisfaction reports they will sit up and ask questions.
Perhaps aCC to each board member would move it faster.....
Just send him/her an honest, straightforward letter saying what you think. Try to limit the emotional content of course!
You can obtain the directors' particulars from Companies House (there is an administration charge of £1).
Almost all of them however only provide a service address
WATERSIDE SPEEDBIRD WAY
HARMONDSWORTH
UNITED KINGDOM
UB7 0GB
You can obtain the directors' particulars from Companies House (there is an administration charge of £1).
Almost all of them however only provide a service address
WATERSIDE SPEEDBIRD WAY
HARMONDSWORTH
UNITED KINGDOM
UB7 0GB
You can find a list of the BA Board of Directors here : http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zht...=irol-govboard
It still lists Frank vdP as a Director at this stage.
You'll note well that there are more Directors drawn from the Executive (5) versus non-Execs (4), and that the Chair is also the CEO.
Both the imbalance (i.e. the staffers outnumber the non-execs) and the latter point (Chair & CEO are same person) are questionable when considering whether a publicly traded organisation has good governance.
Of course, BA is now a subsidiary while IAG are the traded entity, so these best practices apply to IAG, rather than BA directly, and Spanish best practices are likely somewhat different to UK ones.
While you might get a (surprisingly) candid response from a BA Director, as opposed to a cut-and-paste, don't necessarily expect it to change anything. The first duty appears to be toward the IAG stock price.
Mike (Non-Exec Director. Charitable Trustee. Chairperson.)
It still lists Frank vdP as a Director at this stage.
You'll note well that there are more Directors drawn from the Executive (5) versus non-Execs (4), and that the Chair is also the CEO.
Both the imbalance (i.e. the staffers outnumber the non-execs) and the latter point (Chair & CEO are same person) are questionable when considering whether a publicly traded organisation has good governance.
Of course, BA is now a subsidiary while IAG are the traded entity, so these best practices apply to IAG, rather than BA directly, and Spanish best practices are likely somewhat different to UK ones.
While you might get a (surprisingly) candid response from a BA Director, as opposed to a cut-and-paste, don't necessarily expect it to change anything. The first duty appears to be toward the IAG stock price.
Mike (Non-Exec Director. Charitable Trustee. Chairperson.)
as mentioned upstream, these directors have personal aides who screen things that reach them......but hopefully they would be smart enough to spot a trend line.
I would even suggest a Personal &Confidential letter to each director even at the company address. By protocol they need to forward these to the correct office.
Mar 4, 2015, 6:35 am
#264
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 200
It's also possible to get a reasonable amount of info from duedil.com.
I'd agree that most directors will have a PA to intercept such things though - and more importantly that shareholders will win over customers. Without a new product offering to allow increased prices (read - aging fleet and no longer an innovative hard product) combined with capacity issues caused by their hub airport, I do wonder how else they would be likely to show the increased profits next year that their shareholders demand.
That's not a defence of their attitude, more what I assume is their rationale. Long term thinking doesn't come into I suspect. I just don't see any way around it though unless a large slice of their profitable customers start to look at the alternatives.
I'd agree that most directors will have a PA to intercept such things though - and more importantly that shareholders will win over customers. Without a new product offering to allow increased prices (read - aging fleet and no longer an innovative hard product) combined with capacity issues caused by their hub airport, I do wonder how else they would be likely to show the increased profits next year that their shareholders demand.
That's not a defence of their attitude, more what I assume is their rationale. Long term thinking doesn't come into I suspect. I just don't see any way around it though unless a large slice of their profitable customers start to look at the alternatives.
Mar 4, 2015, 7:25 am
#265
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
It's also possible to get a reasonable amount of info from duedil.com.
I'd agree that most directors will have a PA to intercept such things though - and more importantly that shareholders will win over customers. Without a new product offering to allow increased prices (read - aging fleet and no longer an innovative hard product) combined with capacity issues caused by their hub airport, I do wonder how else they would be likely to show the increased profits next year that their shareholders demand.
That's not a defence of their attitude, more what I assume is their rationale. Long term thinking doesn't come into I suspect. I just don't see any way around it though unless a large slice of their profitable customers start to look at the alternatives.
I'd agree that most directors will have a PA to intercept such things though - and more importantly that shareholders will win over customers. Without a new product offering to allow increased prices (read - aging fleet and no longer an innovative hard product) combined with capacity issues caused by their hub airport, I do wonder how else they would be likely to show the increased profits next year that their shareholders demand.
That's not a defence of their attitude, more what I assume is their rationale. Long term thinking doesn't come into I suspect. I just don't see any way around it though unless a large slice of their profitable customers start to look at the alternatives.
That's fine for the shareholders in the short term but of course it is very hard to capture the return on a £15 / cleaner / hour vs £10 / cleaner / hour or the upside of fitting a new F seat vs the effect of reusing the old one.
Whereas squeezing an extra 14 seats on a crop duster plane looks very good in Microsoft Excel.
Mar 4, 2015, 9:14 am
#266
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 10,709
Just send him/her an honest, straightforward letter saying what you think. Try to limit the emotional content of course!
You can obtain the directors' particulars from Companies House (there is an administration charge of £1).
Almost all of them however only provide a service address
WATERSIDE SPEEDBIRD WAY
HARMONDSWORTH
UNITED KINGDOM
UB7 0GB
You can obtain the directors' particulars from Companies House (there is an administration charge of £1).
Almost all of them however only provide a service address
WATERSIDE SPEEDBIRD WAY
HARMONDSWORTH
UNITED KINGDOM
UB7 0GB
Mar 4, 2015, 10:00 am
#267
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: A hop, skip and jump away from MAN.
Programs: BAEC Gold, ex-VS Gold, ex-UA Gold, Premier Inn Platinum-Iridium
Posts: 1,114
I disagree with the generalisation, BA have demonstrated they will spend money on things such as new aircraft. I suspect that's exactly because it's easy to demonstrate the benefits, because their effects are tangible on the overall balance sheet. As you say...
However, the less tangibles, such as investment in soft product, don't happen because they are not as easy to demonstrate.
Whereas squeezing an extra 14 seats on a crop duster plane looks very good in Microsoft Excel.
Mar 5, 2015, 4:14 am
#268
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 200
I disagree with the generalisation, BA have demonstrated they will spend money on things such as new aircraft. I suspect that's exactly because it's easy to demonstrate the benefits, because their effects are tangible on the overall balance sheet. As you say...
However, the less tangibles, such as investment in soft product, don't happen because they are not as easy to demonstrate.
However, the less tangibles, such as investment in soft product, don't happen because they are not as easy to demonstrate.
To me this is what demonstrates the difference between a good accountant and a bad accountant. One will just focus on what the balance sheet, P&L, etc show in order to justify expenditure, one will have a clear understanding of the businesses intended market position and adjust their thinking to ensuring that this is at the centre of financial decisions.
In fairness though, this ethos has to be instilled from above... Plus, critically in BA's, I suspect, the market position has to be clear in the first place.
Without this the only possible policy for increasing profit is going to be continual cuts until something extreme enough happens to illustrate this tactic is failing.
Mar 5, 2015, 3:34 pm
#269
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
To me this is what demonstrates the difference between a good accountant and a bad accountant. One will just focus on what the balance sheet, P&L, etc show in order to justify expenditure, one will have a clear understanding of the businesses intended market position and adjust their thinking to ensuring that this is at the centre of financial decisions.
In fairness though, this ethos has to be instilled from above... Plus, critically in BA's, I suspect, the market position has to be clear in the first place.
Without this the only possible policy for increasing profit is going to be continual cuts until something extreme enough happens to illustrate this tactic is failing.
In fairness though, this ethos has to be instilled from above... Plus, critically in BA's, I suspect, the market position has to be clear in the first place.
Without this the only possible policy for increasing profit is going to be continual cuts until something extreme enough happens to illustrate this tactic is failing.
Story comes to mind ; Candiddates were being interviewd for an accountant"s job. Several answered what is 2+2= 4.... The one who got the job had replied " Boss, what would you like it to be ?"
THat is why senior managers should have been rotated thru various departments including a major stint requiring CUSTOMER interface. Again, the outside directors or others in the company should have the backbone to demand that seniors travel exactly like most of their fare paying (read their paycheck paying) pax travel. I do remember reading about some CEOs including Sir Richard Branson joining their CUSTOMERS .
Last edited by HMPS; Mar 5, 2015 at 3:40 pm