Jan 20, 2015, 5:28 am
Last edit by: hillrider
LHR charges for the cost of this screening to the passengers. For example, if you transited LHR on a round-trip in economy class from the US, you paid GBP 54.39 (USD 83.10) for this (on the ticket under tax/fee "UB").
EU Regulations state that "transfer passengers and their cabin baggage may be exempted from screening, if: (a) they arrive from a Member State [...] or (b) they arrive from a third country where the security standards applied are recognised as equivalent to the common basic standards [...] [E.g. the USA]"
SECURITY CONTROL both ways:
NO SECURITY CONTROL either way (Schengen to USA or v.v.):
NO SECURITY CONTROL from Schengen to USA (control on the way back from USA to Schengen):
EU Regulations state that "transfer passengers and their cabin baggage may be exempted from screening, if: (a) they arrive from a Member State [...] or (b) they arrive from a third country where the security standards applied are recognised as equivalent to the common basic standards [...] [E.g. the USA]"
Security control when connecting between USA and Schengen flights (European airports competing for LHR traffic)
SECURITY CONTROL both ways:
- LHR
NO SECURITY CONTROL either way (Schengen to USA or v.v.):
- FRA (A/Z-gates only) [Lufthansa hub]
- MUC [Lufthansa hub]
- AMS (from mid 2015 when reconstruction works finish) [KLM hub]
- HEL
- ZRH [SWISS hub]
- CPH
NO SECURITY CONTROL from Schengen to USA (control on the way back from USA to Schengen):
- VIE
- WAW
- ARN
- OSL
T5 security is a total disaster! [inc Fast Track issues]
Nov 4, 2014, 1:59 pm
#121
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In which case, agreeing with you completely, the only credible leverage is through the bloody Media ... who will tell HAL they run possibly the worst major airport in Europe. Whether they care, when the Shopping Mall generates money, is a different question, but they should be shamed in public for running [or not] a shambles of the UK's flagship airport.
Am I wrong?
Do they have shareholders too?
Am I wrong?
Do they have shareholders too?
BA doesn't do any of this quite possibly because most solutions involve paying HAL more to improve matters and BA can avoid increased costs and hide behind the smokescreen that HAL are responsible for everything, like weather is always responsible for delays, like EU261 never applies because circumstances are beyond BA's control.
Easier to blame any other scapegoat than take responsibility and work through a solution that might add a few pennies to cost per passenger.
Nov 4, 2014, 2:00 pm
#122
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Friends of mine are going YYC-ABZ and chose to fly KLM and connect in AMS specifically because of T5. They did BA once through T5 and swore never again. They have small children (18 months and 4 years) and said it was far too much hassle to go through LHR with the children.
Nov 4, 2014, 2:26 pm
#124
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Never mind the BA vs HAL debate, we are paying for this. These are the charges we are paying to Heathrow airport (and there may be other, specific, 'security' charges on top);
So, *every* passenger is paying somewhere between £20 and £45 and I'm guessing the staff cost about £15 an hour each. As they say on TV, "you do the math".
2.1 The charge per departing Passenger (other than Transfer Passengers or Transit Passengers) is:
European Destinations £31.63
Other Destinations £44.41
2.2 The charge per departing Transfer Passenger or Transit Passenger is:
European Destinations £23.72
Other Destinations £33.31
European Destinations £31.63
Other Destinations £44.41
2.2 The charge per departing Transfer Passenger or Transit Passenger is:
European Destinations £23.72
Other Destinations £33.31
Nov 4, 2014, 2:43 pm
#125
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Friends of mine are going YYC-ABZ and chose to fly KLM and connect in AMS specifically because of T5. They did BA once through T5 and swore never again. They have small children (18 months and 4 years) and said it was far too much hassle to go through LHR with the children.
Nov 4, 2014, 2:46 pm
#126
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I don't care who sorts out this security mess but ANYONE (let alone people flying F etc) deserves better than this and has to be sorted out. HAL, BA, government, aliens, whatever.
It is clearly unacceptable. The only time it has any justification to be like this is when there is a major unexpected system failure. As far as I know, there was none, and it was just a 'busy day' which of course could have been foreseen very easily.
This display at one of their major airports (especially sort of a 'premium' airport) should be deemed a national embarrassment for the UK.
I would not use the FCC when it is busy. It is actually dangerous at the top of the escalators due to lack of space. I refuse to risk being injured, although it might actually be a good idea if I did get injured and sue HAL for it - it might encourage them to deal with things better if it costs them money.
It is clearly unacceptable. The only time it has any justification to be like this is when there is a major unexpected system failure. As far as I know, there was none, and it was just a 'busy day' which of course could have been foreseen very easily.
This display at one of their major airports (especially sort of a 'premium' airport) should be deemed a national embarrassment for the UK.
I would not use the FCC when it is busy. It is actually dangerous at the top of the escalators due to lack of space. I refuse to risk being injured, although it might actually be a good idea if I did get injured and sue HAL for it - it might encourage them to deal with things better if it costs them money.
Nov 4, 2014, 3:31 pm
#127
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That being said transfer security is maddening and completely dependent on luck of the draw. I've had UA -> BA connections (old T1 -> T5) that took little time except for the Immigration queue, and I've had BA -> *A connections that were 30m in line at some underground checkpoint that was understaffed.
Apparently your UK civil servants are doing as much as possible to make LHR unpleasant - those lines remind me of the 2012 immigration queues for arrivals.
Nov 4, 2014, 4:24 pm
#128
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,900
And who is going to commute out of The Big City to LHR to do the job for a low wage? The problem, having lived near LHR for far too many years, is that the local demographic is [a] limited, in term of job-seekers, [b] ethically diverse, and [c] generally CBA.
Sorry if that's seen as playing hardball, but the realistic recruitment pool is Slough, Uxbridge, West Drayton, Hayes etc.
Sorry if that's seen as playing hardball, but the realistic recruitment pool is Slough, Uxbridge, West Drayton, Hayes etc.
I guess I have been a long time gone with regards to the wages in the area but £6.50 an hour shocks me a bit even for unskilled workers.
Nov 4, 2014, 6:08 pm
#129
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Well, I would hope some of the expensive lawyers BA has would make sure there are contract provisions to claw back money from HAL over bad performance, sue them or undertake whatever other form of harassing HAL to keep the pressure on. I suspect it's in the short term easier to be meek about it instead which is why HAL gets away with it.
So the communist parody goes...
VS pay HAL to operate an efficient and pleasant fast track service at T3. BA could negotiate this too. HAL might be a pseudo monopoly but it is also a normal business they will be keen to maximise profit. BA could work with HAL and pay more for more effective VS Style fast track. BA could conduct research to show that happy customers spend more at airports, BA could push directly for regulator intervention.
BA doesn't do any of this quite possibly because most solutions involve paying HAL more to improve matters and BA can avoid increased costs and hide behind the smokescreen that HAL are responsible for everything, like weather is always responsible for delays, like EU261 never applies because circumstances are beyond BA's control.
Easier to blame any other scapegoat than take responsibility and work through a solution that might add a few pennies to cost per passenger.
BA doesn't do any of this quite possibly because most solutions involve paying HAL more to improve matters and BA can avoid increased costs and hide behind the smokescreen that HAL are responsible for everything, like weather is always responsible for delays, like EU261 never applies because circumstances are beyond BA's control.
Easier to blame any other scapegoat than take responsibility and work through a solution that might add a few pennies to cost per passenger.
Friends of mine are going YYC-ABZ and chose to fly KLM and connect in AMS specifically because of T5. They did BA once through T5 and swore never again. They have small children (18 months and 4 years) and said it was far too much hassle to go through LHR with the children.
That might buy you a burger a couple of times an hour in/near London but it doesn't buy you a sophisticated security screening operation. You may have to raise your offer by a factor of two or three.
Indeed, Gold77, perhaps you are right. Pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Last edited by Calchas; Nov 4, 2014 at 6:14 pm
Nov 4, 2014, 6:08 pm
#130
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Give me TSA over T5 security anyday. Hopeless and embarassing. Sort it out BA.
Nov 4, 2014, 6:49 pm
#131
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Nov 4, 2014, 7:30 pm
#132
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And who is going to commute out of The Big City to LHR to do the job for a low wage? The problem, having lived near LHR for far too many years, is that the local demographic is [a] limited, in term of job-seekers, [b] ethically diverse, and [c] generally CBA.
Sorry if that's seen as playing hardball, but the realistic recruitment pool is Slough, Uxbridge, West Drayton, Hayes etc.
Sorry if that's seen as playing hardball, but the realistic recruitment pool is Slough, Uxbridge, West Drayton, Hayes etc.
As for SL1 and other postcodes, that is surely just making the point that the pool is even larger?
The idea that you could not find the right staff to carry out the security functions at LHR is IMHO quite silly.
Nov 4, 2014, 9:42 pm
#133
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